Grinstein says Delta will be ok!

[FoxHunter]

Delta says can't pay some pensions: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance

 

[dueguard1]

And This Year's Tony Award For "top BuLLsh#t Artist" Goes Toooo...........

 

[General Lee]

Fins,

You sold you AAI stock, not smart.

You think when DAL gets rid of most all its small narrow body (737-200,MD's) and uses 70 and 50 seat RJs that even before cuts cost twice the CSM to operate as our 717 (737 is slightly better than 717) that DAL will beat us? Maybe but not for a few years. And in that time we will have become far less dependant on ATL. As of now it is only half of our revenue.

That is incorrect. I talked to a management pilot today in the ATL lounge and he said that we are trying to keep the MD88s and they out-right own the 737-200s, so if some lessors want to keep some of the MD88s, we would keep the 737-200s a little longer until we replace them. He said that the MAINLINE pilots will be OFFERED new 100 seaters coming from GE leasing--and he thought they would be E190s. He said to expect Jetblue style E190 rates. I think ALPA will go for it, or we will be a lot smaller airline---and less dues for DALPA. As far as more 70 seaters, DCI will get some, but they will be used to replace the 50 seaters. He mentioned some ideas for pay cuts, but did not knopw the specific requests since he was not a negotiator. Expect eventual 100 seaters like E190s in Mainline configuration flying against AT 717s, and then there will be a merger with NW or as he speculated---NW/CAL/DL.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Delta says can't pay some pensions: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance

The PBGC is not on top of the list for creditors I don't think, and probably won't get paid anyway if the judge allows it. They can ask, but probably will not get it and probably will have an extra $8.4 billion bill on it's hands unless Congress does something really quick. A 14 year extension doesn't help much when you owe $10.6 billion. Time to dump it, IMO. Hey, we have insurance.....(the PBGC)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Boeingman]

That is incorrect. I talked to a management pilot today in the ATL lounge and he said that we are trying to keep the MD88s and they out-right own the 737-200s, so if some lessors want to keep some of the MD88s, we would keep the 737-200s a little longer until we replace them. He said that the MAINLINE pilots will be OFFERED new 100 seaters coming from GE leasing--and he thought they would be E190s. He said to expect Jetblue style E190 rates. I think ALPA will go for it, or we will be a lot smaller airline---and less dues for DALPA. As far as more 70 seaters, DCI will get some, but they will be used to replace the 50 seaters. He mentioned some ideas for pay cuts, but did not knopw the specific requests since he was not a negotiator. Expect eventual 100 seaters like E190s in Mainline configuration flying against AT 717s, and then there will be a merger with NW or as he speculated---NW/CAL/DL.


Bye Bye--General Lee

This spells real trouble for AirTran if DAL ALPA allows 190's in their back yard at JB payscales.

As far as the merger with CAL, I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. If so, I would love to talk to some of some of your more arrogant fellas and ask them if they still believe we should be stapled to the bottom of your list as was the plan in 97.

Like I always told that idiot FlyDeltasJets....."Never throw stones in glass houses".

 

[General Lee]

This spells real trouble for AirTran if DAL ALPA allows 190's in their back yard at JB payscales.

As far as the merger with CAL, I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. If so, I would love to talk to some of some of your more arrogant fellas and ask them if they still believe we should be stapled to the bottom of your list as was the plan in 97.

Like I always told that idiot FlyDeltasJets....."Never throw stones in glass houses".

They weren't ALPA back then, and had more scabs. Some are still there now. Since they are both ALPA now, it makes things easier. Why do you think ALPA took CAL back so fast? The possibility of future mergers. And, CAL may decide to go into Chap 11 too if DL and NW get too many competitive advantages. Sad but true. It is likely we may dump $8.4 billion in pension obligations on the PBGC-----I bet CAL would love to do the same. (not as much probably) Business is business.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[bafanguy]

Delta says can't pay some pensions: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance

Well, this flies in the face of what GG said in a memo to retirees yesterday. Can the picture have changed so radically in 24 hours ? Standby for an avalanche of innuendo, supposition, half-truths, incomplete or misinterpreted facts, and total BS.

 

[Boeingman]

They weren't ALPA back then, and had more scabs. Some are still there now. Since they are both ALPA now, it makes things easier. Why do you think ALPA took CAL back so fast? The possibility of future mergers. And, CAL may decide to go into Chap 11 too if DL and NW get too many competitive advantages. Sad but true. It is likely we may dump $8.4 billion in pension obligations on the PBGC-----I bet CAL would love to do the same. (not as much probably) Business is business.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I see. So because of the scabs it was alright to punish the entire CAL pilot list?
Or, because we weren't ALPA the whole list should be punished? Sorry General, but that argument doesn't fly at all with me.

It is that kind of arrogance that makes my blood pressure rise about ALPA and those who blindly follow their mantra. I used to love watching the looks of some of the Delta Double Breasted A--h---s spotting myself in a CAL uniform sans ALPA pin. The assumptions and comments were truly interesting.

ALPA took CAL back for one reason and one reason only. Dues. It is all about money. Nothing more. Nothing less.

You are right about one thing General. Business is business. Should a merger ever occur (and I seriously doubt it) I can assure you the CAL pilots with push the career expectation issue very hard under ALPA merger policy.

Like I always told my Delta buddies they should keep their mouth shut because someday, god forbid, what we went through may happen over there.

That day has arrived.

 

[JT8D]

ALPA took CAL back for one reason and one reason only. Dues. It is all about money. Nothing more. Nothing less.

.

Bingo.

 

[General Lee]

I see. So because of the scabs it was alright to punish the entire CAL pilot list?
Or, because we weren't ALPA the whole list should be punished? Sorry General, but that argument doesn't fly at all with me.

It is that kind of arrogance that makes my blood pressure rise about ALPA and those who blindly follow their mantra. I used to love watching the looks of some of the Delta Double Breasted A--h---s spotting myself in a CAL uniform sans ALPA pin. The assumptions and comments were truly interesting.

ALPA took CAL back for one reason and one reason only. Dues. It is all about money. Nothing more. Nothing less.

You are right about one thing General. Business is business. Should a merger ever occur (and I seriously doubt it) I can assure you the CAL pilots with push the career expectation issue very hard under ALPA merger policy.

Like I always told my Delta buddies they should keep their mouth shut because someday, god forbid, what we went through may happen over there.

That day has arrived.

And your point is? Do you think you won't be there again? I am not trying to be cocky, but think that there will be some consolidation eventually. DL and NW will cut pensions and debt obligations and make it really tempting for your management to do the same. As far as career expectations goes, well, you are retiring 2600 pilots over the next three years--I have been here 9 years---I should be senior to everyone who has recently been hired this year. I can't wait to do Delhi or Beijing from EWR on the 777. You need to take a chill pill there chief, and understand that your company could be next. Yeah, you had a small profit last quarter, but gas is higher now and you still have to pay those pensions. You may be back for round 3. You never know. Career expectations? What are those? You sound a bit cocky there--you would have made a great Delta pilot.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Dizel8]

"ALPA took CAL back for one reason and one reason only. Dues. It is all about money. Nothing more. Nothing less."

Boeingman, Come on down! ( In my best announcer voice)

I think you are spot on!

 

[Boeingman]

And your point is?

Didn't I already make it? But as long as this tangent is running I'll play. Although I am not trying to pick a fight with you, just making a point about past arrogance that ran rampent over there. Especially on Super Bowl Sunday 1997 in our near buyout.

Do you think you won't be there again?

Who knows? All I was trying to point out was there were a lot of Delta pilots slamming CAL pilots in years past. It is funny listening to remarks about how they might need to hook up with us now and expect a fair and equitable integration. I just think that type of attitude is extremly hypocritical that is all.

I am not trying to be cocky, but think that there will be some consolidation eventually.

I agree. My point is where will the Delta pilots end up given your precarious situation right here and now?

DL and NW will cut pensions and debt obligations and make it really tempting for your management to do the same.

We already took it in the shorts with our pension.

As far as career expectations goes, well, you are retiring 2600 pilots over the next three years--I have been here 9 years---I should be senior to everyone who has recently been hired this year.

General you better take a real hard look at the entire career expectation language in the ALPA merger and fragmentation policy. Where you "should" be doesn't make a hill of beans with a failing carrier. Your 9 years means nothing as of yesterday.

I can't wait to do Delhi or Beijing from EWR on the 777.

Don't hold your breath. BUt it is this type of attitude that I am trying to make a point about. I am sure (at least hope) you said this in jest

You need to take a chill pill there chief, and understand that your company could be next.

I am chilled General (do you out rank me?). I am not saying we won't either. Again my point is there are a lot of Delta boys and girls that need to keep their mouth shut after the treatment and visions they extended to us lowly CAL pilots.

Yeah, you had a small profit last quarter, but gas is higher now and you still have to pay those pensions.

The pensions at Delta are only a small part of your problem. Personally, I think Grinstein waited far to long to file and preserve cash. Everything Delta owns is now nearly all leveraged and your access to credit markets are just about cut off. You seem to believe that dumping the pensions will be A) Easy B) the savior of the airline.

United did it right (by BK standards) by filing early before hocking their assets (to get DIP loans against) and preserving their cash. It will be interesting to see who is going to loan money to you guys without some type of secure instruments.

You may be back for round 3. You never know.

I agree. I also don't care either.

Career expectations? What are those?

Exactly what the CAL pilots will be saying to Delta pilots now.

You sound a bit cocky there--you would have made a great Delta pilot.....

I actually turned you guys down way back when. Up until a couple of years ago, I was really kicking myself.

[/QUOTE]

 

[73belair]

Will Delta offer the same deal that JB has for those 190s? Everything above 70 hrs is 150% pay?

 

[Boeingman]

"ALPA took CAL back for one reason and one reason only. Dues. It is all about money. Nothing more. Nothing less."

Boeingman, Come on down! ( In my best announcer voice)

I think you are spot on!

Thank you

 

[Dizel8]

Will Delta offer the same deal that JB has for those 190s? Everything above 70 hrs is 150% pay?

Heavens no, DALPA will do much better!

 

[General Lee]

Wow, great responses. So, 9 years of service means nothing compared to newhires today? Really? I think you are wrong there. Also, it is very likely that CAL could be in the same position in a few months. As far as our current situation, it isn't great to say the least. But, a lot of the debt will be gone or restructured. The pension obligations will be reduced by $8.4 billion if Congress doesn't come up with a better plan. Fine with me. ASA shed us another $1 billion. Comair will do the same. We already started a transformation period that has yeilded results, yet as you said we were late in implementing the plan. If you knew high gas prices were here to stay--you should have told everyone. How baout Hurrincane Katrina? Did you see that coming too? Thanks for telling everyone. And, my career expectations will fit in nicely with all of your pilots after the court proceedings. To think that your airline will keep paying all of these higher bills and pension payments (your personal pension may be shot, but what about all of the current payments to the retired folks?) is unlikely----it is called competitive advantage.

And, I am not one of those super cocky Delta pilots (even though most on Flightinfo probably think so)--I didn't think we would staple CAL back in 97. I was still happy to be going to a window seat after 7 months on the 727 panel. The guys you are mad at are long gone now, with their $1 million lump sums....Congrats on being at CAL, for now....We may all be linked one day together---Deltaco-west. (I have applied for a copywrite for that name)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Heavens no, DALPA will do much better!

Thanks to your bus pilots not caring about the E190 rates, we will probably get the same. Thanks dudes. I also can't wait to do transcon turns, and marry my sister! (my wife won't like that)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[JT8D]

and marry my sister! (my wife won't like that)

Bye Bye--General Lee

Wait a minute, your in Atlanta right? Wouldn't your wife and your sister be cousins? Yes that would cause tension.


I kidding!, I kid with you.

 

[Dizel8]

Oh no General, not going to be that easy for you. You now have an opportunity to "set the standard, do the right thing and raise the bar". You and DALPA have the opportunity to raise pay for all the people on the 170-195, the pilots at Comair,heck for all the regionals out there, so let see that bravado of yours in action!

As for not caring, the DAL boys still picking up over time, still allowing "contractors" on the property while people are on furlough? Yeah, I thought so!

As for what you do with your sister, I really do not care, but get it over with, it is getting really old!

 

[Boeingman]

Wow, great responses.

Thanks. I'll take it even if you're being sarcastic.

So, 9 years of service means nothing compared to newhires today? Really? I think you are wrong there.

Question: If Delta rejects the leases and parks as many aircraft as they are saying in the filing where does that leave you on the list? What are your chances for progression given the finacial outlook for your company? Compare vis a vis a CAL new hire and I don't think you are going to like the answer.

I am not saying it is right but past history supports my observation. For your own good you better let go of your time in service card. Once you carrier enters bankruptcy your odds of retaining anything relative are great;y diminished.

Also, it is very likely that CAL could be in the same position in a few months.

Didn't we already beat this horse?

As far as our current situation, it isn't great to say the least. But, a lot of the debt will be gone or restructured. The pension obligations will be reduced by $8.4 billion if Congress doesn't come up with a better plan. Fine with me. ASA shed us another $1 billion. Comair will do the same. We already started a transformation period that has yeilded results, yet as you said we were late in implementing the plan.

General, debt doesn't disappear or go just away without a price. Creditors who get burned will not likely do business with you again. Those that will do business in the future will extract a premium after watching their comrades get hosed in the courts. Another words, doing business in the future will be very costly.

Transformation plan? General, if it was working Delta would not of been burning through cash to the point of declaring bankruptcy. Face it. You guys gave $1 Bilion in givebacks to have it pissed away with simplifares. I don't call that a plan that is working.

If you knew high gas prices were here to stay--you should have told everyone. How baout Hurrincane Katrina? Did you see that coming too? Thanks for telling everyone.

I see, so this was the only cause for the bankruptcy? OK.

And, my career expectations will fit in nicely with all of your pilots after the court proceedings.

I seriously think you are in for a real setback if you believe this. Honestly, I think Delta will be lucky to avoid being broken up or liquidated given the degree of leverage and your current cash position.

To think that your airline will keep paying all of these higher bills and pension payments (your personal pension may be shot, but what about all of the current payments to the retired folks?) is unlikely----it is called competitive advantage.

Is this the same competitive advantage your boys and girls used to accuse us of using? I guess it is all right for you guys now is that right?

The guys you are mad at are long gone now, with their $1 million lump sums....Congrats on being at CAL, for now....We may all be linked one day together---Deltaco-west. (I have applied for a copywrite for that name)

I am not mad in the least. I am just sitting back watching this industry collapse.