Grinstein says Delta will be ok!

[spinproof]

Delta had no choice but to sell their hedge. A fuel hedge is a credit contract for future sales - Delta's credit fell triggering the sale when they could no longer finance the obligation.

I am actually with General on the turn around, to the point that I sold my AirTran stock during its bump with the Delta news. AirTran sees trouble on the horizon also. Have you noted that their new routes all seem to avoid overflying Delta?

The 80 Million DAL got for the contract is the equailent to a weeks worth of fuel today! Yes hindsight is 20-20. There's a reason they call it a hedge.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Even the FLYI guys have optimistic spin.... all part of the game....

Airtran.....tell us more Fins.

 

[B747FR8DAWG]

Take The Money and Run - Pilots Take Lump Sum Before PBGC

PBGC: Delta still on the hook for pension
Thursday September 15, 1:36 pm ET



Delta Air Lines Inc.'s bankruptcy filing does not relieve it of its responsibility to fund its pension.

Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. Executive Director Bradley Belt said in a statement on the federal organization's Web site that Delta's (NYSE: DAL - News) pension is underfunded by $10.6 billion with a possible employee loss of $2.2 billion.

The financial challenges facing the airline industry are significant, but nothing in the bankruptcy code requires companies to skip their pension funding payments," Belt said.

Delta (NYSE: DAL - News) is due to pay $150 million to its pension before the end of 2005. Cash-draining pension payments were one factor in Delta's financial downfall.

A bill wending its way through Congress, sponsored by Sen. Johnny Isakson (R-GA), aims to give airlines even more time make good on their pension shortfalls.

But with Senate confirmation hearings on a proposed U.S. Supreme Court justice and the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, the bill couldn't be passed in time to kept Delta out of bankruptcy court.

Bankrupt United Air Lines Inc. this spring terminated its pension at a cost of $6.4 billion, the largest in history, and bankrupt US Airways Group Inc. also has terminated its pensions at a cost of $600 million.

Delta CEO Gerald Grinstein has said that he doesn't want to do that to Delta's employees, who number more than 20,000 in metro Atlanta alone. He has said that Delta wants to pay its obligations, it just needs more time to do it. Published September 15, 2005 by the Atlanta Business Chronicle

 

[FLB717]

Fins,

You sold you AAI stock, not smart.

You think when DAL gets rid of most all its small narrow body (737-200,MD's) and uses 70 and 50 seat RJs that even before cuts cost twice the CSM to operate as our 717 (737 is slightly better than 717) that DAL will beat us? Maybe but not for a few years. And in that time we will have become far less dependant on ATL. As of now it is only half of our revenue.

 

[fam62c]

Grinstein says delta will be O.K.

Well that's good enough for me...if Grinstein says things will be O.K. that must be the case. Honestly; what is the man supposed to say? "I think that we are screwed and we might have to liquidate this pig if oil doesn't come down or the creditors get tired of proping up carriers that continue to lose money. I would like to add that no airline has successfully emerger from Ch.11 since 9/11 and we are going to burn through our DIP financing so fast that it will be like it was never even there. It's my hope that there will be many investors like the good folks that are funding UAL who will pay for us to stay in bankruptcy essentially forever because if we ever need to actually emerge from the process the competition will beat us sensless. In closing I would like to thank General Lee for his continued support and optimism; I appreciate that especially in light of the fact that I intend to take everything he has before I am through here. Thanks for listening.......uh, by the way, does anyone know any good bankruptcy lawyers that we haven't already invited to feed off of our rotting carcass? If you do have them give me a call."

Ten minutes before DAL liquidates he will still be saying that things will be O.K. That's the CEO's job.

 

[FoxHunter]

Delta says can't pay some pensions: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance

 

[dueguard1]

And This Year's Tony Award For "top BuLLsh#t Artist" Goes Toooo...........

 

[General Lee]

Fins,

You sold you AAI stock, not smart.

You think when DAL gets rid of most all its small narrow body (737-200,MD's) and uses 70 and 50 seat RJs that even before cuts cost twice the CSM to operate as our 717 (737 is slightly better than 717) that DAL will beat us? Maybe but not for a few years. And in that time we will have become far less dependant on ATL. As of now it is only half of our revenue.

That is incorrect. I talked to a management pilot today in the ATL lounge and he said that we are trying to keep the MD88s and they out-right own the 737-200s, so if some lessors want to keep some of the MD88s, we would keep the 737-200s a little longer until we replace them. He said that the MAINLINE pilots will be OFFERED new 100 seaters coming from GE leasing--and he thought they would be E190s. He said to expect Jetblue style E190 rates. I think ALPA will go for it, or we will be a lot smaller airline---and less dues for DALPA. As far as more 70 seaters, DCI will get some, but they will be used to replace the 50 seaters. He mentioned some ideas for pay cuts, but did not knopw the specific requests since he was not a negotiator. Expect eventual 100 seaters like E190s in Mainline configuration flying against AT 717s, and then there will be a merger with NW or as he speculated---NW/CAL/DL.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Delta says can't pay some pensions: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance

The PBGC is not on top of the list for creditors I don't think, and probably won't get paid anyway if the judge allows it. They can ask, but probably will not get it and probably will have an extra $8.4 billion bill on it's hands unless Congress does something really quick. A 14 year extension doesn't help much when you owe $10.6 billion. Time to dump it, IMO. Hey, we have insurance.....(the PBGC)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Boeingman]

That is incorrect. I talked to a management pilot today in the ATL lounge and he said that we are trying to keep the MD88s and they out-right own the 737-200s, so if some lessors want to keep some of the MD88s, we would keep the 737-200s a little longer until we replace them. He said that the MAINLINE pilots will be OFFERED new 100 seaters coming from GE leasing--and he thought they would be E190s. He said to expect Jetblue style E190 rates. I think ALPA will go for it, or we will be a lot smaller airline---and less dues for DALPA. As far as more 70 seaters, DCI will get some, but they will be used to replace the 50 seaters. He mentioned some ideas for pay cuts, but did not knopw the specific requests since he was not a negotiator. Expect eventual 100 seaters like E190s in Mainline configuration flying against AT 717s, and then there will be a merger with NW or as he speculated---NW/CAL/DL.


Bye Bye--General Lee

This spells real trouble for AirTran if DAL ALPA allows 190's in their back yard at JB payscales.

As far as the merger with CAL, I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. If so, I would love to talk to some of some of your more arrogant fellas and ask them if they still believe we should be stapled to the bottom of your list as was the plan in 97.

Like I always told that idiot FlyDeltasJets....."Never throw stones in glass houses".

 

[General Lee]

This spells real trouble for AirTran if DAL ALPA allows 190's in their back yard at JB payscales.

As far as the merger with CAL, I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. If so, I would love to talk to some of some of your more arrogant fellas and ask them if they still believe we should be stapled to the bottom of your list as was the plan in 97.

Like I always told that idiot FlyDeltasJets....."Never throw stones in glass houses".

They weren't ALPA back then, and had more scabs. Some are still there now. Since they are both ALPA now, it makes things easier. Why do you think ALPA took CAL back so fast? The possibility of future mergers. And, CAL may decide to go into Chap 11 too if DL and NW get too many competitive advantages. Sad but true. It is likely we may dump $8.4 billion in pension obligations on the PBGC-----I bet CAL would love to do the same. (not as much probably) Business is business.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[bafanguy]

Delta says can't pay some pensions: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance

Well, this flies in the face of what GG said in a memo to retirees yesterday. Can the picture have changed so radically in 24 hours ? Standby for an avalanche of innuendo, supposition, half-truths, incomplete or misinterpreted facts, and total BS.

 

[Boeingman]

They weren't ALPA back then, and had more scabs. Some are still there now. Since they are both ALPA now, it makes things easier. Why do you think ALPA took CAL back so fast? The possibility of future mergers. And, CAL may decide to go into Chap 11 too if DL and NW get too many competitive advantages. Sad but true. It is likely we may dump $8.4 billion in pension obligations on the PBGC-----I bet CAL would love to do the same. (not as much probably) Business is business.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I see. So because of the scabs it was alright to punish the entire CAL pilot list?
Or, because we weren't ALPA the whole list should be punished? Sorry General, but that argument doesn't fly at all with me.

It is that kind of arrogance that makes my blood pressure rise about ALPA and those who blindly follow their mantra. I used to love watching the looks of some of the Delta Double Breasted A--h---s spotting myself in a CAL uniform sans ALPA pin. The assumptions and comments were truly interesting.

ALPA took CAL back for one reason and one reason only. Dues. It is all about money. Nothing more. Nothing less.

You are right about one thing General. Business is business. Should a merger ever occur (and I seriously doubt it) I can assure you the CAL pilots with push the career expectation issue very hard under ALPA merger policy.

Like I always told my Delta buddies they should keep their mouth shut because someday, god forbid, what we went through may happen over there.

That day has arrived.

 

[JT8D]

ALPA took CAL back for one reason and one reason only. Dues. It is all about money. Nothing more. Nothing less.

.

Bingo.

 

[General Lee]

I see. So because of the scabs it was alright to punish the entire CAL pilot list?
Or, because we weren't ALPA the whole list should be punished? Sorry General, but that argument doesn't fly at all with me.

It is that kind of arrogance that makes my blood pressure rise about ALPA and those who blindly follow their mantra. I used to love watching the looks of some of the Delta Double Breasted A--h---s spotting myself in a CAL uniform sans ALPA pin. The assumptions and comments were truly interesting.

ALPA took CAL back for one reason and one reason only. Dues. It is all about money. Nothing more. Nothing less.

You are right about one thing General. Business is business. Should a merger ever occur (and I seriously doubt it) I can assure you the CAL pilots with push the career expectation issue very hard under ALPA merger policy.

Like I always told my Delta buddies they should keep their mouth shut because someday, god forbid, what we went through may happen over there.

That day has arrived.

And your point is? Do you think you won't be there again? I am not trying to be cocky, but think that there will be some consolidation eventually. DL and NW will cut pensions and debt obligations and make it really tempting for your management to do the same. As far as career expectations goes, well, you are retiring 2600 pilots over the next three years--I have been here 9 years---I should be senior to everyone who has recently been hired this year. I can't wait to do Delhi or Beijing from EWR on the 777. You need to take a chill pill there chief, and understand that your company could be next. Yeah, you had a small profit last quarter, but gas is higher now and you still have to pay those pensions. You may be back for round 3. You never know. Career expectations? What are those? You sound a bit cocky there--you would have made a great Delta pilot.....


Bye Bye--General Lee