Grinstein says Delta will be ok!

[Dizel8]

"ALPA took CAL back for one reason and one reason only. Dues. It is all about money. Nothing more. Nothing less."

Boeingman, Come on down! ( In my best announcer voice)

I think you are spot on!

 

[Boeingman]

And your point is?

Didn't I already make it? But as long as this tangent is running I'll play. Although I am not trying to pick a fight with you, just making a point about past arrogance that ran rampent over there. Especially on Super Bowl Sunday 1997 in our near buyout.

Do you think you won't be there again?

Who knows? All I was trying to point out was there were a lot of Delta pilots slamming CAL pilots in years past. It is funny listening to remarks about how they might need to hook up with us now and expect a fair and equitable integration. I just think that type of attitude is extremly hypocritical that is all.

I am not trying to be cocky, but think that there will be some consolidation eventually.

I agree. My point is where will the Delta pilots end up given your precarious situation right here and now?

DL and NW will cut pensions and debt obligations and make it really tempting for your management to do the same.

We already took it in the shorts with our pension.

As far as career expectations goes, well, you are retiring 2600 pilots over the next three years--I have been here 9 years---I should be senior to everyone who has recently been hired this year.

General you better take a real hard look at the entire career expectation language in the ALPA merger and fragmentation policy. Where you "should" be doesn't make a hill of beans with a failing carrier. Your 9 years means nothing as of yesterday.

I can't wait to do Delhi or Beijing from EWR on the 777.

Don't hold your breath. BUt it is this type of attitude that I am trying to make a point about. I am sure (at least hope) you said this in jest

You need to take a chill pill there chief, and understand that your company could be next.

I am chilled General (do you out rank me?). I am not saying we won't either. Again my point is there are a lot of Delta boys and girls that need to keep their mouth shut after the treatment and visions they extended to us lowly CAL pilots.

Yeah, you had a small profit last quarter, but gas is higher now and you still have to pay those pensions.

The pensions at Delta are only a small part of your problem. Personally, I think Grinstein waited far to long to file and preserve cash. Everything Delta owns is now nearly all leveraged and your access to credit markets are just about cut off. You seem to believe that dumping the pensions will be A) Easy B) the savior of the airline.

United did it right (by BK standards) by filing early before hocking their assets (to get DIP loans against) and preserving their cash. It will be interesting to see who is going to loan money to you guys without some type of secure instruments.

You may be back for round 3. You never know.

I agree. I also don't care either.

Career expectations? What are those?

Exactly what the CAL pilots will be saying to Delta pilots now.

You sound a bit cocky there--you would have made a great Delta pilot.....

I actually turned you guys down way back when. Up until a couple of years ago, I was really kicking myself.

[/QUOTE]

 

[73belair]

Will Delta offer the same deal that JB has for those 190s? Everything above 70 hrs is 150% pay?

 

[Boeingman]

"ALPA took CAL back for one reason and one reason only. Dues. It is all about money. Nothing more. Nothing less."

Boeingman, Come on down! ( In my best announcer voice)

I think you are spot on!

Thank you

 

[Dizel8]

Will Delta offer the same deal that JB has for those 190s? Everything above 70 hrs is 150% pay?

Heavens no, DALPA will do much better!

 

[General Lee]

Wow, great responses. So, 9 years of service means nothing compared to newhires today? Really? I think you are wrong there. Also, it is very likely that CAL could be in the same position in a few months. As far as our current situation, it isn't great to say the least. But, a lot of the debt will be gone or restructured. The pension obligations will be reduced by $8.4 billion if Congress doesn't come up with a better plan. Fine with me. ASA shed us another $1 billion. Comair will do the same. We already started a transformation period that has yeilded results, yet as you said we were late in implementing the plan. If you knew high gas prices were here to stay--you should have told everyone. How baout Hurrincane Katrina? Did you see that coming too? Thanks for telling everyone. And, my career expectations will fit in nicely with all of your pilots after the court proceedings. To think that your airline will keep paying all of these higher bills and pension payments (your personal pension may be shot, but what about all of the current payments to the retired folks?) is unlikely----it is called competitive advantage.

And, I am not one of those super cocky Delta pilots (even though most on Flightinfo probably think so)--I didn't think we would staple CAL back in 97. I was still happy to be going to a window seat after 7 months on the 727 panel. The guys you are mad at are long gone now, with their $1 million lump sums....Congrats on being at CAL, for now....We may all be linked one day together---Deltaco-west. (I have applied for a copywrite for that name)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Heavens no, DALPA will do much better!

Thanks to your bus pilots not caring about the E190 rates, we will probably get the same. Thanks dudes. I also can't wait to do transcon turns, and marry my sister! (my wife won't like that)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[JT8D]

and marry my sister! (my wife won't like that)

Bye Bye--General Lee

Wait a minute, your in Atlanta right? Wouldn't your wife and your sister be cousins? Yes that would cause tension.


I kidding!, I kid with you.

 

[Dizel8]

Oh no General, not going to be that easy for you. You now have an opportunity to "set the standard, do the right thing and raise the bar". You and DALPA have the opportunity to raise pay for all the people on the 170-195, the pilots at Comair,heck for all the regionals out there, so let see that bravado of yours in action!

As for not caring, the DAL boys still picking up over time, still allowing "contractors" on the property while people are on furlough? Yeah, I thought so!

As for what you do with your sister, I really do not care, but get it over with, it is getting really old!

 

[Boeingman]

Wow, great responses.

Thanks. I'll take it even if you're being sarcastic.

So, 9 years of service means nothing compared to newhires today? Really? I think you are wrong there.

Question: If Delta rejects the leases and parks as many aircraft as they are saying in the filing where does that leave you on the list? What are your chances for progression given the finacial outlook for your company? Compare vis a vis a CAL new hire and I don't think you are going to like the answer.

I am not saying it is right but past history supports my observation. For your own good you better let go of your time in service card. Once you carrier enters bankruptcy your odds of retaining anything relative are great;y diminished.

Also, it is very likely that CAL could be in the same position in a few months.

Didn't we already beat this horse?

As far as our current situation, it isn't great to say the least. But, a lot of the debt will be gone or restructured. The pension obligations will be reduced by $8.4 billion if Congress doesn't come up with a better plan. Fine with me. ASA shed us another $1 billion. Comair will do the same. We already started a transformation period that has yeilded results, yet as you said we were late in implementing the plan.

General, debt doesn't disappear or go just away without a price. Creditors who get burned will not likely do business with you again. Those that will do business in the future will extract a premium after watching their comrades get hosed in the courts. Another words, doing business in the future will be very costly.

Transformation plan? General, if it was working Delta would not of been burning through cash to the point of declaring bankruptcy. Face it. You guys gave $1 Bilion in givebacks to have it pissed away with simplifares. I don't call that a plan that is working.

If you knew high gas prices were here to stay--you should have told everyone. How baout Hurrincane Katrina? Did you see that coming too? Thanks for telling everyone.

I see, so this was the only cause for the bankruptcy? OK.

And, my career expectations will fit in nicely with all of your pilots after the court proceedings.

I seriously think you are in for a real setback if you believe this. Honestly, I think Delta will be lucky to avoid being broken up or liquidated given the degree of leverage and your current cash position.

To think that your airline will keep paying all of these higher bills and pension payments (your personal pension may be shot, but what about all of the current payments to the retired folks?) is unlikely----it is called competitive advantage.

Is this the same competitive advantage your boys and girls used to accuse us of using? I guess it is all right for you guys now is that right?

The guys you are mad at are long gone now, with their $1 million lump sums....Congrats on being at CAL, for now....We may all be linked one day together---Deltaco-west. (I have applied for a copywrite for that name)

I am not mad in the least. I am just sitting back watching this industry collapse.