Govt has to do something!!

[ChrisNNJ27]

I am looking for a factual account of the record profits. I don't doubt it but like to see some substantiation. Thanks.

Dude it has been all over every financial news source, try googling Oil Profits and I am sure you will find a wealth of info regarding this subject... What more do you need to prove that oil companies are gouging consumers? Their financial statements?

 

[jetflyer]

Somebody on another thread posted once an eye-opening study saying that the Oil Companies SHUT DOWN ON PURPOSE tens of refineries over the last twenty years so they could get to 95-100% utilization of refineries and increase their profits.

Does anyone know where I can find that study again about the shutting down of refineries on purpose?

Jet

 

[ChrisNNJ27]

Open your eyes up to the world around you. There's more than just airplanes in the sky.
I talked with the cable guy today, he just found out along with everyone else at his company, that he's going to be taking a 45% pay cut. Surprise! Look at several industries and you'll see the same. It's not just us, and it's not going away. Unemployment is down, but overall quality of life is too. The country needs to hit bottom to bounce back up, this will take some time.

While employees at the middle and bottom get squeezed for every dime, executives continue to reward themselves with gratuitous compensation... Until the working man/woman stand up for themselves and each other this crap is going to continue and probably even get worse...

 

[USMCmech]

Somebody on another thread posted once an eye-opening study saying that the Oil Companies SHUT DOWN ON PURPOSE tens of refineries over the last twenty years so they could get to 95-100% utilization of refineries and increase their profits.

Well DUH!

Oil companies are not going to operate extra refineries when the price of fuel is so low (ie. 95-2000) that they aren't making much money. It's basic productivity. Most of those refineries that were closed down were done so because modifying them to make the newer blends of gas was cost prohibitive when gas was 1.15 a gallon.

Lately after 2 years of high gas prices and profits they are making plans to expand their refineries and restart some of the mothballed ones. as well as possibly building a few new ones in areas where transport costs warrant it.



Here is a news flash for everyone.

Oil companines are in existance only to make a profit for their share holders. If they can charge 5$ a gallon and still sell the same amount of gas they will.

However competition keeps them from getting out of hand. If Exxon trys to sell gas at 3.50 then Shell will undercut them by charging 3.40.

Capatilisim, supply & demand, and competition are the reason gas prices are as cheap they are now.


That's right I said Gas is cheap!!!

The 100 year average price for a gallon of gas adjusted for inflation is about 2.50 a gallon. The 100 year average price for a barrel of oil adjusted for inflation is 65$.

FYI, adjusted for inflation gas was $5 bucks a gallon in 1979.

We are actualy paying exactly what we should for a gallon of gas.


We are not running out of oil any time soon. What we are running out of is the cheap, easy to get to, easy to refine oil that we have enjoyed for so long. There is plenty of oil in undeveloped feilds all over the world, it's just more expensive than it's worth right now. Once oil stays above 65$ per barrel these feilds will be developed. In fact west Texas still has plenty of oil, however extracting it wasn't profitable at $20 per barrel.

There is also the shale oil deposits that have never been mined. Currently the cost to extract this oil is about 70$ per barrel.

 

[atrdriver]

Also, something the Enigma didn't mention, is that the EPA has made it very difficult for new refineries to be built, by outrageous regulations. Same goes for nuke plants. It actually costs more to re-certify a currently operating nuke plant than it did to build it, and now that many are coming up on haveing to be re-certified, it is more cost effective for the energy companies to close them down. Lets push for a little less regulation by the EPA and start developing some new (or utilize existing) sources.

 

[pilotyip]

How does anyone explain we have just about the cheapest fuel prices of any industrialized country?

 

[Snakum]

you guys don't seem to see that the airlines already are government-subsidized

Very true. And quite unfortunate, as well.

we have just about the cheapest fuel prices of any industrialized country

Also true. And we are a tad spoiled by the kind of fuel prices we've enjoyed for generations. In 1989 gas was running ... what ... $.90 per gallon? I can't remember, but it was mucho cheap. At the same time, in the Federal Republic of Germany it was almost DM 6.00 per liter. Calculate that one.

Minh
(Spoiled by the price of prostitutes and Mad Dog 20/20. :nuts: )

 

[Icelandair]

Its time to throw the environmentalist wackos out and start behaving like a sane nation that wants to survive.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

You guys are looking at the world through your aviation glasses...

Most sectors are doing just fine! companies are making lots of money, most workers pay is up, and Americans are spending more that ever.

fuel prices and gvt intervention? no thanks, let your welfare airline crumble. Someone else will fly to Florida and people will continue to go if prices go up.
Had anything shipped/deliverd lately? EVERYONE has added fuel surcharges - not just UPS and FEDEX - even local contractors around me....so what? you want the stuff? just pay the few bucks!!! imagine that.

I can honestly say the only people I know who are taking a pounding are airline related (pilots,FAs etc)

Everyone else still pulls up to that 3$ gas pump in their 40K+ SUVs.

 

[FN FAL]

While employees at the middle and bottom get squeezed for every dime, executives continue to reward themselves with gratuitous compensation... Until the working man/woman stand up for themselves and each other this crap is going to continue and probably even get worse...

Hey Chris, remember when the plant mananger for James River Paper Company's "Dixie Cup" operation up in New Jersey got turned into a No. 2 pencil in his office by a disgruntled employee?

The plant manager was the son of one of the owners of James River Paper Co., which at the time was a global operation consisting of hundreds of manufacturing plants, making such products as "Brawny" and "Northern Bathroom Tissue".

You don't remember that one Chris? His assailant emptied a 9mm pistol into him and then committed suicide.

 

[jetflyer]

We are not running out of oil any time soon. What we are running out of is the cheap, easy to get to, easy to refine oil that we have enjoyed for so long.

USMCmech,

You seem to know a lot about oil production.

When do you think conventional oil production will peak? I'm curious from your studies.

Also do you not think conventional oil eventually peaking will be a big deal for the world? China has only enough coal for themselves and their demand increases every day, and the U.S. has about 80% of the world's oil shale.

Do you not think wars might be fought as conventional oil peaks?

At Chevron's site about moving past oil found at www.willyoujoinus.com Chevron says that 33 of the 48 major oil producing countries are past their peak oil production. Is this not a big deal?

These 33 of the 48 major oil producing countries are declining every year and the rest of the world has to drill a lot more oil to first just overcome their average of about 6% decline. Is this not a big deal?

What did you think about the country by country and field by field analysis on oil production by Rembrandt H.E.M. Koppelaar from the Netherlands which can be found at: http://www.peakoil.nl/images/oil_production_outlook_2005-2040.pdf?

As you know he included the tar sands of Canada, deep sea drilling, and advanced recovery techniques like water injection and multi-lateral horizontal drilling to get the "expensive oil". Accounting for these in his study he concludes a global Oil peak will occur in 2012-13.

Do you agree with his conclusions?

I hope you don't mind me asking so many questions, but I'm just interested in your opinions since you seem to know a lot. It's good to have intelligent, educated discussions on here. That's one reason I love this site so much.

Thank you,
Jet

 

[pilotyip]

Oh! My gad I agree with G200. We are going through an adjustment process to come in line with the rest of the world. Germany the third largest economy in the world survives with high gas prices. They have a thriving int'l airline. Adam Smith figureed this out in 1790 and he still rules. We will adjust our spending and make rational decisions in our best interest. i.e. Now the 45 MPG car is a better idea than a 4 X 4 500 Cu in 6- door pickup truck.

 

[Freight Dog]

You can thank 9/11 for the airlines being the way they are. Every airline CEO used it to declare war on labor. Sure, people were afraid to fly for 2 months or so following the 9/11, and we lured them back with ridiculously low fares.

Now that the average American has TOTALLY forgotten 9/11, everyone and their mother's lost cousin is flying again. Naturally, they don't make enough revenue to cover their costs, so they turn to charitable organizations such as ALPA, AFA, IAM, etc. and ask for money. Feeling sorry for the poor CEO's, and buying the management b.s. that their airlines will close up shop, these charitable organizations hand over the cash left and right just so average Joe can fly to Florida for less than what a nonrev ticket should cost.

That does not warrant government intervention. It requires a sanity and a gut check at the airline charities called ALPA, AFA and IAM, etc. for as long as they are in the giving mood, the airline CEO's have no incentive to add those fuel surcharges, or raise ticket prices to meet the demand.

 

[USMCmech]

Jetflyr

Most of my info comes from my dad who is a manager at ExxonMobil's Beaumont refinery.

RE: your quote about the peak of oil production from the chevron website. The exact quote was "Oil production is in decline in 33 of the 48 largest oil producing countries". The key word there is "production" not nessacerally actuall supply.

Ther has been a decline of textile "production" in the USA. Not because we are running out of cotton, or mills, or workers, but because it's cheaper to have clothes made in Tiawan.

The same thing holds true for oil. There is still plenty of oil burried under the US, plus the oil shale and other possibilities that haven't been completly researched. However right now it's cheaper to buy crude from Canada, Mexico, and west Africa. FYI we buy very little oil from the persian gulf countries, shipping costs make that too expensive.

With oil prices as high as they are, the oil compaines are definately looking at developing new was to extract oil. Because of HUGE amounts of money (think hundreds of billions) involved, you better belive that the oil compaines are thinking well ahead.



One of the main reasons that Jet A has become so expensive is the switch to low sulfur desiel mandated by the EPA. The retrofit to do this at the Beaumont refinery alone was over 2 billion dollars. That cost is passed along to consumers. This also reduced the amount of gas, diesel, and Jet A that can be refined out of a barrel of oil.

No fair complaining about the oil companies passing these costs along to consumers. We voted for the politicians who made the law, and in doing so we agreed to pay the extra cost.

 

[EuroWheenie]

Snakum

At the same time, in the Federal Republic of Germany it was almost DM 6.00 per liter. Calculate that one.

Ehh, not quite mate. Actually, you're very far off the mark. I can't remember ever seeing prices on the German Autobahn (most expensive place to buy gas in DE) much above DM 2.00/Litre. Current price is around EUR 1.25/Litre, roughly equal to DM 2.50/litre. In Dollars and US Gallons that's around USD 7.5/Gallon. Count yerselfs lucky guys, your gas is not taxed to same extent as over this side of the pond. And Germany is not the most expensive place to get gas; the UK is, I belive, topping the charts.

Now there two ways to reduce the price of gas, either increase supply or decrease demand. By combining the two, you'd get the best result. By putting a heavy tax on the ridiculously stupid trucks alot of Americans are buying, you'd see a reduction in demand. By increasing gas prices, you'd force people to buy more fuel efficient cars, thereby reducing demand. I'm not saying that we should all drive a VW Fox, but on the other hand a 5.4L V8 powering a 3 ton truck is hardly required for transportation.

PS
Recently paid DHL in Wilmington a visit, and wanted to see for myself what the bloody attraction of trucks are. So I hired a F-150, 4x4 and with a 5.4L V8. And frankly guys, it drove like shyte! Sure, all was well and somewhat comfortable on a well paved straight and level interstate. But my (by comparison) dinky little A3 which is powered by a 2.0L diesel engine is far more comfortable, drives 1000 times better, is vastly superior in build quality, is way faster and even has an indoor boot for the belongings! About the only thing it doesn't do is seat 5 people as comfortably, but it'll do 4 adults just fine. So why in the bloody hell would anybody choose something as hideous, expensive, poorly built and with crappy road holding abilities when there are much better alternativies around? Bigger, ladies and gentlemen, is very seldom better when it comes to automobiles!

Oh, and for price comparisons. I couldn't find the A3 Sportsback 2.0 TDi on the US Audi site, so went for 2.0 Turbo (200BHP) with DSG box instead. The price for that is 26.2K. A 2006 Ford F-150 XLT 4x4 is 26.5K USD. Now why would anybody with just half a brain spend 3OO USD more on an inferior car, if it not for some pig ignorant 'mine's bigger than yours' syndrome?