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Govt has to do something!!

XJETDriver

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Ok... If the oil prices keep going up like that have been, then every 121 is going to go Tango Uniform. Along with every trucking company (and i bet that at least 70% of all the cargo moved in the US is moved my trucks). Something has to be done very soon!! I know that every major oil company has had RECORD profits the past year. They are producing the same amount of oil for the past 2 years, yet they had RECORD profits. What he heck is going on...?? Any ideas to the problem or whats going to happen? Maybe the Gov should sub the airlines??
 

aa30

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why? raise the prices for the tickets like any other industry does except the jackass airlines. pass on the cost to the consumer.
 

GravityHater

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I am looking for a factual account of the record profits. I don't doubt it but like to see some substantiation. Thanks.
 

milehigh6080

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You're right, Capitalism is a silly idea, and it's been proven that communism is a much more efficient form of government. It's no wonder that the USSR is the world's only superpower and the United States is practically a third world nation. Hopefully our government will finally wake up soon and realize that capitalism doesn't work and start making real, necessary reforms.

They can start with seizing any property that they can use for the people's good, it's time that greedy land owners stop hoarding property for their own evil, selfish reasons. Surely the evil corporations should stop making their evil profits, so the government should take control of them as well, so that they can, uh, reap the evil profits. But, clearly, the government will be able to much more efficiently distribute those profits for the good of the people. These will be brave, necessary steps, but sometimes, as we all know, the press can shade the story in a negative way for their own personal, selfish gain. Obviously it will be in the best interest of the people for the government to take control of the press in order to make sure that the proper story is being communicated to the ignorant masses. Granted, there will be a few stubborn fools who refuse to accept that this is all done for the good of the public, and they may try to disrupt the plans for their own selfish reasons. Thankfully we will be able to bring the military home from their corporate wars designed to line the pockets of rich oil companies, so they will be available to dedicate their resources to sniffing out these ill-conceived greedy ones among the masses and deal with them in a stern manner, in order to send the proper message to the masses.

It's about time we recognize the true genius of Karl Marx, Vladimir Lenin and Chairman Mao. We've given capitalism its fair shake, and after 229 years of an impotent economy, we should definately admit defeat and get with the program.
 

Avenger29

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Actually, high price is caused by the shortage of refininerys (no new ones since 1970's), high enviromental restrictions on fuel, and taxes...plus, most refineries in US are light crude only- the most expensive crude...

Gov't can't do anything well, the only make it worse- look at Europe- socalist countries, high prices. Gov't bumbles and screws up EVERYTHING
The fuel has not increased in price at my FBO- 100LL holding at 3.91/gal since late July, even with recent spikes

Sounds like you are a prime canidate for socalist indoctrination- do a little research...
 

KeroseneSnorter

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Hmmm...gas prices high..{typing on calculator}....can't make money on full airplanes...{still typing}....hmmm what to do what to do.....well I could raise prices and ACTUALLY charge a fare that would make money.........or I could hit the employees up for another concession....{more calculator}....no no that will not work, already hit them four times so far.....hmmmm...{tapping forhead} WAIT I GOT IT!!!!!! The Gubment...yea thats it...Gubments always bail out the stupid airline mgmt. types...........

Just raise the prices so you can make a profit, just make sure that you actually give quality service...........oh wait..I forgot...Does that exist in the U.S. anymore??

The foreign carriers of the world make the US carriers look really really stupid. Grab a seat on Singapore, Quantas, or well heck just about any of the bigger ones. We have really let ourselves go in the service department. Frankly the US sucks in quality of service. Fix that and charge appropriate rates and the good ones will survive, the bad ones will become the Edsels of the industry.
 

FN FAL

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XJETDriver said:
Maybe the Gov should sub the airlines??
I think you have been smoking too much government subsidized crack.

I'm supposed to pay higher housing costs, higher heating costs, higher grocery costs, higher taxes, higher gas prices. Pay for Katrina and Rita victims, the gulf war, the war on drugs, the war on hunger AND pay higher taxes to keep your monkey ass in that stupid zoot suit?

Guess what? You better call Devry and get into one of their technical school programs...operators are waiting.
 

Snakum

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Government intervention will only make it worse.
Geezus! I hate when 100LL says something intelligent. :angryfire

I think you have been smoking too much government subsidized crack.
ROFLMMFAO! :laugh:

Let us bear in mind that we, as pilots, are die-hard Republicans in general (90%?). And as such, we must also hold the opinion that free-market capitalism is the ONLY way to run an economy.

No unions ... no subsidies ... market forces rule. You can't be a part-time right-winger. That's what I respect about 100LL. He is a right-wing nutjob very day of the week. Not just when it suits him to be one.


Minhberg
 
Last edited:

cynic

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Ummm... whats funny is that you guys don't seem to see that the airlines already are government-subsidized

Or do Delta, United and American stick around because they make sooo much money? http://slate.msn.com/id/116288/

As for oil prices, well if we'd just nuke China and enslave the rest of the middle east I think that would solve the problem. Otherwise I think demand will outstrip supply which of course means prices will go up.
 

cforst513

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you know how we are working on alternative forms of energy for cars and stuff? once we find a cheap, viable source (fuel cell, hydrogen, whatever), do you think that it will eventually be transferred over to aircraft? or once cars/trucks finally change over, there will be such an over-abundance of oil that Jet-A will be next to free? what do you guys think?

*Note: i know that this alternative fuel/energy thing is a dream that's far off b/c of the oil company's stranglehold on pretty much everything! but i'm saying somewhere WAAAAAAAAY down the line...
 

enigma

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XJETDriver said:
Ok... If the oil prices keep going up like that have been, then every 121 is going to go Tango Uniform. Along with every trucking company (and i bet that at least 70% of all the cargo moved in the US is moved my trucks). Something has to be done very soon!! I know that every major oil company has had RECORD profits the past year. They are producing the same amount of oil for the past 2 years, yet they had RECORD profits. What he heck is going on...?? Any ideas to the problem or whats going to happen? Maybe the Gov should sub the airlines??
XJET, you've got the right concept (the government should do something), but your perspective is wrong for the solution. Here's what I mean, the government doesn't need to subsidize the airlines, it needs to properly police/regulate big oil.......and it needs to use common sense enviromental regulations on the industry.

You ask what is going on. Here's what is going on, the Fedgov has allowed the big oil companies to consolidate distribution. Ten years ago, the six largest oil companies controlled less than fifty percent of the pumps, now they controll over seventy-five percent of the pumps. In effect, they have a virtual monopoly. There is the answer to your "what's the problem, how can they have record profits" question. Big oil consolidation, combined with environmental regulation, has prevented any appreciable increase in refining capacity in the last twenty-five years. The EPA, has forced the oil companies to refine "boutique" fuel (different blends for each major metro area) which raises prices, and restricts refinery efficiency. The EPA and the environmentalist insist on rediculously tight emissions from refineries. These restrictions force us (US) to buy only the most expensive oil. Did you know that so called "sour crude" is available for around half of the price of the light sweet crude we use? Refining sour crude creates more pollutants than does light sweet crude, but it is possible. I'll bet that the increased cost of refining doesn't come near the difference between it and the good stuff.

In short, the government needs to recognize that our economy runs on energy, cheap energy. As such, it needs to develop an energy policy that: allows for competition in the petro market (no monopolies), allows for enviromnental concerns to be weighed against economic reality, and that plans for the eventual loss of fossil fuels. Even though intelligent people disagree on the date for peak oil, its eventuality doesn't appear to be arguable. Our representatives need to work now, to develop an alternative. I propose that we cut off space research, pork barrell bridges in AK, free prescription drugs, etc, and spend our money on legitimate alternative fuel development.

Price controls don't do any good. Ask Nixon.

For the record, this is all my opinion. The facts I state are my knowledge gained from a lot of listening and reading. If anyone wants a link for a specific fact, I'm sorry, I just don't have them, and I've got to get to work, so I don't have time for research.

enigma
 

XJETDriver

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Thanks enigma for not bashing my idea. All I wanted was some ideas to slove the problem.

And for all the guys that say "raise the ticket prices"
If we do raise the ticket prices, will this not run off most consumers?
It seems to me that the only 121 carriers that are making $$ are low cost. So if the oil prices keep going up, the profit margin is going to be nothing. So then what??
 

labbats

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Open your eyes up to the world around you. There's more than just airplanes in the sky.
I talked with the cable guy today, he just found out along with everyone else at his company, that he's going to be taking a 45% pay cut. Surprise! Look at several industries and you'll see the same. It's not just us, and it's not going away. Unemployment is down, but overall quality of life is too. The country needs to hit bottom to bounce back up, this will take some time.
 

jetflyer

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REFINERIES being out are the MAJOR reason for the spike in prices, but the average price of GASOLINE was 2.55 BEFORE KATRINA. Also the price of a barrel of crude oil is the same now as it was before Katrina, about $66/barrel.

The main reason oil prices and gasoline prices were going up Pre-Katrina is because of the SUPPLY-DEMAND problems that begin to occur as we reach the Global Oil production peak. Congressman Roscoe Bartlett explains this problem the best in his speeches to Congress. Links to his speeches can be found below.

A study recently out from the Netherlands Says Peak Oil 2012-13. ASPO(Association for the Study of Peak Oil and Gas) and ODAC(Oil Depletion Analysis Center) say 2007-2008.

The study from the Netherlands was very, very thorough, and I would say 2012-13 is pretty accurate. He didn't however forecast a near term peak in Saudi Arabian oil production like George Bush and Cheney's friend, Matthew Simmons who was an advisor in the Secret Energy meetings, and author of the newest Peak Oil book predicts in the near future.

The writer of the Netherlands study says that a near term Saudi Arabian Peak would cause a Global oil peak to occur around 2007-8 but then a HIGHER Production peak around 94-5 Million Barrels a day would occur later around 2011-12.

When we reach peak oil and we haven't gotten alternatives going quickly enough, we're going to have a real energy crisis.

We need to start turning the oil shale from the Rockies to OIL NOW! Shell has said they are still considering it and may start developing the first plant around 2010. Uhh hurry.

Also we need to turn the Coal to oil asap. The technology is there but the transformation plants are not. The plants MUST HAVE CARBON SEQUESTRATION processes included to capture the carbon so it isn't put into the environment.

We also need to hurry the development of HYBRID PLUG-IN cars. With the PLUG IN option you can plug the car into an outlet and drive the next day for 30-50 miles WITHOUT GASOLINE! This is huge. Plus it's still a Hybrid when the nightly charge runs out.

We also have a natural gas problem, and we need to use the coal for our oil. So we're going to NEED MANY NEW NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS to power our homes and our automobiles.

This country needs to get serious NOW about ENERGY like Bush and Cheney were pushing for in 2001.

Unfortunately after 9/11, I think Bush and Cheney changed their plans on energy and decided instead to go "get it for us". I think Iran and Venezuela are next.

Here are some sources for anyone interested in learning more about oil production peaking. #4 is the best description of the problem and the Finland Study can be found at #16:

1)From Financial Sense Newshour with Jim Puplava:
a)Select an Audio Format below to LISTEN TO Matthew Simmons talk about OIL SUPPLY Problems (PEAK OIL)
Select an Audio Format to listen:
RealPlayer l WinAmp l Windows Media l mp3

b)LISTEN TO THE continuation of the show after Matthew Simmons left. They continue to talk about Peak Oil and the effects it will have on the economy. It talks about how to profit from it.
Select an audio Format to listen:


2)Roscoe Bartlett, Republican Congressman from Maryland just gave a new speech to Congress, broadcast on C-SPAN on July 19, 2005 about COMING OIL SUPPLY PROBLEMS(PEAK OIL).
Here is the transcript.:
a)http://www.xecu.net/thorn/PO/PO-July19-2005.html

April 19th Bartlett gave this speech to congress. This is a good speech to read, and it has VISUALS.
b)http://www.bartlett.house.gov/SupportingFiles/documents/energyspeech.pdf

Roscoe Bartlett met with Bush about Peak Oil on June 29th. So Bush, no doubt knows about the coming oil supply problems. Here is the press release:
c)http://www.bartlett.house.gov/latestnews.asp?ARTICLE2900=7308

3) Here is a recent Associated press article that was in the USA TODAY:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-05-28-oil-shortage_x.htm?csp=34

4) THE BEST DESCRIPTION OF PEAK OIL:
www.yubanet.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/8/15426

5) Article about Peak Oil coming around 2007-2008. A new Finland study says 2012 so I doubt 2007-8 is the date but these people think so:
http://www.globalpublicmedia.com/articles/196

6) http://www.financialsense.com/energy/main.htm
Read as many of the articles here especially the Peak Oil ones
a) Peak Oil and what it means to you: http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/petch/2005/0703.html
b) Crude Awakening: http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/saxena/2005/0617.html

7) An investment firm that specializes in ENERGY, 321Energy, has daily news articles on PEAK OIL and OIL in general here: http://www.321energy.com/archives.php?c=oil
Canadian Economist talks about imminent Peak oil Problem: http://www.321energy.com/editorials/sprott/sprott070505.html

8) A GREAT BLOG with news updates daily all about PEAK OIL: http://www.theoildrum.com/

9) Great Chat Group, look at Current Events, Peak Oil Discussion, Energy Technology, and Economics of Peak Oil: http://www.peakoil.com/forums.html

10) Iraq and the Problem of Peak Oil: http://globalresearch.ca/articles/ENG408A.html

11) The Association for the Study of Peak Oil and Gas (ASPO) has their website at: www.peakoil.net They have a new newsletter every month I believe, which talks about the newest developments on peak oil. They have done analysis on Peak Oil and predict 2007-2008 for Peak Oil.

12) Here is the Oil Depletion Analysis Center (ODAC) site. They also have done analysis on Peak Oil and predict 2007-2008 for Peak Oil.They have new articles about peak oil all the time:
http://www.odac-info.org/

13) New York Times Magazine article on coming Peak Oil. They interview Matthew Simmons and the ex-President of Saudi Arabia's Oil company ARAMCO:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/21/magazine/21OIL.html

14) The Ultimate Doomer Site-He basically thinks we're screwed no matter what: www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net -- Everything UNDERLINED is a link and you can explore almost all his sources. I recommend looking at as many links as you have time for.

15) Here is a great site that has new articles on Peak Oil and ALL THE ALTERNATIVES and their progress:
http://www.energybulletin.net/

16) This new study by Rembrandt H.E.M. Koppelaar from Foundation Peak Oil Netherlands says 2012-13 is the peak oil year:
http://www.peakoil.nl/images/oil_production_outlook_2005-2040.pdf

17) CNOOC, a Chinese Company, says global oil production will peak within the next 5 years. Here is the article:
http://www.interfax.cn/showfeature.asp?aid=5412&slug=OIL


The time to get serious is NOW.

Jet
 

ChrisNNJ27

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GravityHater said:
I am looking for a factual account of the record profits. I don't doubt it but like to see some substantiation. Thanks.

Dude it has been all over every financial news source, try googling Oil Profits and I am sure you will find a wealth of info regarding this subject... What more do you need to prove that oil companies are gouging consumers? Their financial statements?
 

jetflyer

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Somebody on another thread posted once an eye-opening study saying that the Oil Companies SHUT DOWN ON PURPOSE tens of refineries over the last twenty years so they could get to 95-100% utilization of refineries and increase their profits.

Does anyone know where I can find that study again about the shutting down of refineries on purpose?

Jet
 

ChrisNNJ27

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labbats said:
Open your eyes up to the world around you. There's more than just airplanes in the sky.
I talked with the cable guy today, he just found out along with everyone else at his company, that he's going to be taking a 45% pay cut. Surprise! Look at several industries and you'll see the same. It's not just us, and it's not going away. Unemployment is down, but overall quality of life is too. The country needs to hit bottom to bounce back up, this will take some time.


While employees at the middle and bottom get squeezed for every dime, executives continue to reward themselves with gratuitous compensation... Until the working man/woman stand up for themselves and each other this crap is going to continue and probably even get worse...
 

USMCmech

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jetflyer said:
Somebody on another thread posted once an eye-opening study saying that the Oil Companies SHUT DOWN ON PURPOSE tens of refineries over the last twenty years so they could get to 95-100% utilization of refineries and increase their profits.
Well DUH!

Oil companies are not going to operate extra refineries when the price of fuel is so low (ie. 95-2000) that they aren't making much money. It's basic productivity. Most of those refineries that were closed down were done so because modifying them to make the newer blends of gas was cost prohibitive when gas was 1.15 a gallon.

Lately after 2 years of high gas prices and profits they are making plans to expand their refineries and restart some of the mothballed ones. as well as possibly building a few new ones in areas where transport costs warrant it.



Here is a news flash for everyone.

Oil companines are in existance only to make a profit for their share holders. If they can charge 5$ a gallon and still sell the same amount of gas they will.

However competition keeps them from getting out of hand. If Exxon trys to sell gas at 3.50 then Shell will undercut them by charging 3.40.

Capatilisim, supply & demand, and competition are the reason gas prices are as cheap they are now.


That's right I said Gas is cheap!!!

The 100 year average price for a gallon of gas adjusted for inflation is about 2.50 a gallon. The 100 year average price for a barrel of oil adjusted for inflation is 65$.

FYI, adjusted for inflation gas was $5 bucks a gallon in 1979.

We are actualy paying exactly what we should for a gallon of gas.


We are not running out of oil any time soon. What we are running out of is the cheap, easy to get to, easy to refine oil that we have enjoyed for so long. There is plenty of oil in undeveloped feilds all over the world, it's just more expensive than it's worth right now. Once oil stays above 65$ per barrel these feilds will be developed. In fact west Texas still has plenty of oil, however extracting it wasn't profitable at $20 per barrel.

There is also the shale oil deposits that have never been mined. Currently the cost to extract this oil is about 70$ per barrel.
 

atrdriver

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Also, something the Enigma didn't mention, is that the EPA has made it very difficult for new refineries to be built, by outrageous regulations. Same goes for nuke plants. It actually costs more to re-certify a currently operating nuke plant than it did to build it, and now that many are coming up on haveing to be re-certified, it is more cost effective for the energy companies to close them down. Lets push for a little less regulation by the EPA and start developing some new (or utilize existing) sources.
 
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