GOJET to do Delta flying!

[damnflyboy]

8 planes (comair tails) from ASA and 4 planes (also comair tails) from Skywest airlines. 6 ASA CR2's are headed being retired

Had we been ONE streamlined airline with no redundancy instead of *SkyWest + ASA* under a shell game of a holding company with $redundancy$, would this have happened? How much does it cost to have two CEOs, two headquarters, 2X etc, 2X etc, etc. Now we have a bad situation for ASA/ExpressJet and SkyWest Airlines.

Food for thought.

 

[Flyguy1226]

Keep in mind, that these 12 700s originally came from Comair...In essence, the only reason we had them in the first place was because we were cheaper than Comair.

Are we losing 8 or 12? Brads update says 8!?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Had we been ONE streamlined airline with no redundancy instead of *SkyWest + ASA* under a shell game of a holding company with $redundancy$, would this have happened? How much does it cost to have two CEOs, two headquarters, 2X etc, 2X etc, etc. Now we have a bad situation for ASA/ExpressJet and SkyWest Airlines.

Food for thought.

It costs a lot less this way then the increased leverage labor would achieve with a single group...Seriously, this argument is so lame. Labor would use the increased leverage to extract more gains.

It's hard to compete with GoJets regardless. There pay is near the bottom and 5 years is a senior pilot.

ALPA failed to reign in brand scope back when they had a chance, and now we are seeing the results...

 

[JoeMerchant]

Are we losing 8 or 12? Brads update says 8!?

We are losing 8. Skywest is losing 4. All 12 originally came from Comair.

 

[Flyguy1226]

Funny how this was annouced during our current contract negotiations.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Funny how this was annouced during our current contract negotiations.

You do realize that this decision had nothing to do with ASA or Skywest management? This was Delta deciding to find cheaper lift than either ASA or Skywest. I was wondering how long it would take for someone to imply this is just a negotiating tactic.

 

[damnflyboy]

It costs a lot less this way then the increased leverage labor would achieve with a single group...Seriously, this argument is so lame. Labor would use the increased leverage to extract more gains.

It's hard to compete with GoJets regardless. There pay is near the bottom and 5 years is a senior pilot.

ALPA failed to reign in brand scope back when they had a chance, and now we are seeing the results...

While I partially agree, the leverage argument is unquantifiable...especially with a possible loss of ALPA with a full merger. So, we both have lame and unsubstantiated opinions.

But like I said...food for thought.

 

[EHE2]

Funny how this was annouced during our current contract negotiations.

I think TSA signing their contract made it possible to sign the leases. So that was the dangling carrot, a kick in the a$$! Why am I not surprised!!!

 

[shamrock]

So how many furloughs will it take for ASA to get back to being adequately understaffed again?

 

[JoeMerchant]

While I partially agree, the leverage argument is unquantifiable...especially with a possible loss of ALPA with a full merger. So, we both have lame and unsubstantiated opinions.

The only way you may ever get a complete merge with Skywest is to get rid of ALL the unions at ASA/XJT....IMO, that will never happen. I'm all for it, but there are too many union brain washed people who think the union is protecting them.

 

[Smoke Toliet]

Had we been ONE streamlined airline with no redundancy instead of *SkyWest + ASA* under a shell game of a holding company with $redundancy$, would this have happened? How much does it cost to have two CEOs, two headquarters, 2X etc, 2X etc, etc. Now we have a bad situation for ASA/ExpressJet and SkyWest Airlines.

Food for thought.

Couldn't agree more. The almighty Jerry may of made a mistake on this. But when its comes down to it ASA will always be more expensive then a Gojet or Mesa. We've been around a long time and have a senior pilot group. The only way we're going to keep flying or gain more is if we have a superior product. And obviously we don't. At ASA the line employees are never given the resources to provide a good product.(staffing, poor crew utilization, mtx etc..) As long as there are contracts to bid on there's always going to be newer regionals to bottom feed. Especially ones like Gojets with a less then reputable pilot group. Being a career regional pilot you deserve evertything coming to you. Don't be surprised when the doors finally close. Just like Comair. ASA could be next or we could take pay cuts?! Right Joe?

 

[bigshooter107]

Was told they will be operated at a 1% loss. Had our performance not have sucked as bad as it did this summer maybe big D would have let this one slide.

 

[Raskal]

Was told they will be operated at a 1% loss. Had our performance not have sucked as bad as it did this summer maybe big D would have let this one slide.

And the fallacy of performance making a difference continues...it's Delta: cheap is all that matters, performance is literally the very last thing that makes any difference at all. The only time it comes into play is when DL can shave money off contracts through penalties.

 

[JoeMerchant]

1. Regarding this being because we have 2 separate managements and 2 sets of executives: You do realize that this was awarded to a company that has 3 separate managements and 3 separate companies....That didn't make them too expensive.

2. Regarding this being "performance" based, GoJets has some serious mx. issues...We are far better than them in terms of quality.

This was based on overall cost....Delta doesn't want to pay much for regional lift...

 

[JoeMerchant]

Was told they will be operated at a 1% loss. Had our performance not have sucked as bad as it did this summer maybe big D would have let this one slide.

GoJets is worse than us in many areas...This was done on a pure low cost basis.

 

[JettBoii]

Go Jets = Scabs

 

[centralpilot]

Good news is that hopefully GoJets will hire ex Comair guys to fly them

They can start with the ex-Comair guys who are probably about to be furloughed from ASA. It hasn't been announced and I hope I'm wrong, but even with running this place so lean this summer I can't imagine we can lose 14 aircraft and not furlough again. Maybe they'll make an 11th hour deal on the 6 200s, but I doubt it.

 

[damnflyboy]

1. Regarding this being because we have 2 separate managements and 2 sets of executives: You do realize that this was awarded to a company that has 3 separate managements and 3 separate companies....That didn't make them too expensive.

This was based on overall cost....Delta doesn't want to pay much for regional lift...

No, I get it. But what worked for us before doesn't work now. What works for them (GoJet & co.) is irrelevant. The bottom line is dollars and cents. Our big guns could lay in our economy of scale...but INC doesn't use it to the full potential.

For years, ASA pilots were flying on a 5 year past-due contract with low(er) maintenance aircraft. It worked in ASA's favor THEN, not now. Now, we have relatively more lifers/super-senior pilots on a current contract (and i'm not saying there's anything wrong with lifers...whole other topic) and ratty, old, mainenance-hog airplanes.

We can't compete with the low costs of younger pilot groups, but we can in other areas.

Costs change and so MUST strategy. The honeymoon is over. Time to evolve.

For the record, you're spot on about DL's interests. It's all about the dividends.

 

[Smoke Toliet]

1. Regarding this being because we have 2 separate managements and 2 sets of executives: You do realize that this was awarded to a company that has 3 separate managements and 3 separate companies....That didn't make them too expensive.

2. Regarding this being "performance" based, GoJets has some serious mx. issues...We are far better than them in terms of quality.

This was based on overall cost....Delta doesn't want to pay much for regional lift...

1. When it comes to their 3 managements it doesn't matter if there is 3 or 1 when your only dealing with 90+ airplanes. To combined all 3 it doesn't make a difference, maybe save a little. Now when the operation is 700 airplanes then yes it would save money to combine it. Saving that money would then allow INC to bid on flying at a lower cost and still make money. Jerry's fear/inexperience of unionized labor got the best of him here. To bad he couldn't look at SWA and see how it could work.

2. Agreed its about money. But gojet also has better proformance then us. Sorry to say. If you look on the UA side they have better numbers then us.

Long story short, ASA is to expensive and has a poor product. And its not the line employee's fault.

 

[damnflyboy]

Long story short, ASA is to expensive and has a poor product. And its not the line employee's fault.

And we suffer for it! Yay!