Go Jet Airlines, a reasonable option or a way to the blacklist?

[Flyer1015]

I know how outsiders like to bash on these boards. Tell me how GJ has screwed you over, personal case, please.

You affected me because your airline's actions were a backstab to every ALPA regional carrier out there. It makes it that much harder for us to fight and get a new contract, when they know that there are wh0res out there willing to fly for some of the cheapest 70 seat wages.

Don't tell me about a TSA example because they did that to themselves, GJ was formed with their input, you can't blame someone in class at GJ right now for what happened in 05.

I won't blame them for what happened in 2005, but I will blame them for continuing to belittle our profession, and for taking a job at an alter-ego carrier. These pilots should know better.

Plenty of airlines have "raped" fellow pilots and the industry in general. I can think of a few that have survived, particularly one where people would kill to get a class date. I'm sure the pilots applying are not thinking about how the place was started as long as it's a decent place now. As long as it's not struck work, I'm not a union henchman, so who cares where I find work. Please.

Sorry, GoJets stands alone. Name another situaion where an airline holding company *initially* formed a non-union alter ego carrier.

 

[CX880]

You affected me because your airline's actions were a backstab to every ALPA regional carrier out there. It makes it that much harder for us to fight and get a new contract, when they know that there are wh0res out there willing to fly for some of the cheapest 70 seat wages.

Again, I ask again. How have we affected you. Don't tell me theory. And by the way most have it in their scope that one list has to exist even if there are separate certificates. So I'm not sure how GJ would even apply. Also it's very ironic how management is paying us even more with a new contract than TSA, so I'm not sure how we're "wh0res".

Sorry, GoJets stands alone. Name another situaion where an airline holding company *initially* formed a non-union alter ego carrier.

It's not an alter ego. That was established long ago in courts. Same was Republic, Shuttle. GJ is a certificate for TSH to fly CRJ7s. Nothing more.

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[Freight Dog]

Flyer1015, if I see it correctly, GoJet pay is on par with the rest of the subcontrated feeder carriers. I don't know about GoJet work rules, but from the sound of it, it sounds like it's on par with the rest. So I'm curious to know how is it that they're screwing you over.

As for your example of little girls "not forgetting who raped them" I say GOOD... you shouldn't. It was crappy scope clauses and management. On the other hand, I know at least at my former carrier, thanks to formation of GoJet, we improved our scope because it pointed out vulnerability of our then-current scope.

Another point about you bashing other pilots choosing to go there these days.... ever think about furloughees, especially say UAL furloughs who are very much pro-ALPA, going there and the effect they would have there? Or what about those ATA boys and girls? Ever wonder if they'd bring about the change at GoJet to work to bring all TSAH pilots under one umbrella? Denying them jumpseats or alienating them are a helluva way to ensure that it never happens.

See... too many "profession defenders" are just too myopic to see the big picture.

 

[Flyer1015]

It's not an alter ego. That was established long ago in courts. Same was Republic, Shuttle. GJ is a certificate for TSH to fly CRJ7s. Nothing more.

Yes it is an alter ego. Republic and Shuttle were not an example of a non-union alter ego. It was on the same list for pilots. Not the same situation.

Flyer1015, if I see it correctly, GoJet pay is on par with the rest of the subcontrated feeder carriers. I don't know about GoJet work rules, but from the sound of it, it sounds like it's on par with the rest. So I'm curious to know how is it that they're screwing you over.

It's how GoJets came about to be that is NOT on par with the rest of the regionals. It was specifically formed by Hulas as a non-union alter ego carrier as a union busting move. It hired non union pilots, grew/expanded while the union company of the same holding company, shrunk.

Another point about you bashing other pilots choosing to go there these days.... ever think about furloughees, especially say UAL furloughs who are very much pro-ALPA, going there and the effect they would have there? Or what about those ATA boys and girls? Ever wonder if they'd bring about the change at GoJet to work to bring all TSAH pilots under one umbrella? Denying them jumpseats or alienating them are a helluva way to ensure that it never happens.

They will become wh0res for doing so. Bring all TSAH pilots under one umbrella?! Hahaha, no. That chance came back when GoJets was first forming. They said no. Then they went on, non-union, until even THEY got Hula-cized. After they couldn't take it anymore, they got a union.

I know plenty of pilots that carry a "list" and will deny jumpseaters if they are on the "list." And, I also know pilots who will deny jumpseats to GoJets. It's a necessary evil.

 

[CX880]

Y


They will become wh0res for doing so. Bring all TSAH pilots under one umbrella?! Hahaha, no. That chance came back when GoJets was first forming. They said no. Then they went on, non-union, until even THEY got Hula-cized. After they couldn't take it anymore, they got a union.

See this is the reason why someone with no knowledge of TSA and TSH, should stay in the side lines and just SFTU instead of making up ridiculous spews such as the above. But then again, how would you know if you weren't there. Do you think they happened to became union by chance? You don't know or have no idea what the terms were under creation of the seniority list. So STFU.

Flyer1505, you're completely wrong on GJ. By your alterego mentality, it would mean that if TSA pilots voted yes for the flying, they would have had to fly for the non-union alter ego certificate. Is that what you're trying to say? People are confusing GJ the company, with GJ, the pilots. GJ's creation isn't in dispute, its the seniority list that is the issue. TSA pilots under one list, would have had to transfer to the GJ certificate anyways. Going through another ground school and training. GJ was created before they asked TSA pilots if they wanted to fly not after they voted no to CRJ7 flying.

 

[Rook]

Flyer1015, if I see it correctly, GoJet pay is on par with the rest of the subcontrated feeder carriers. I don't know about GoJet work rules, but from the sound of it, it sounds like it's on par with the rest. So I'm curious to know how is it that they're screwing you over.

As for your example of little girls "not forgetting who raped them" I say GOOD... you shouldn't. It was crappy scope clauses and management. On the other hand, I know at least at my former carrier, thanks to formation of GoJet, we improved our scope because it pointed out vulnerability of our then-current scope.

Another point about you bashing other pilots choosing to go there these days.... ever think about furloughees, especially say UAL furloughs who are very much pro-ALPA, going there and the effect they would have there? Or what about those ATA boys and girls? Ever wonder if they'd bring about the change at GoJet to work to bring all TSAH pilots under one umbrella? Denying them jumpseats or alienating them are a helluva way to ensure that it never happens.

See... too many "profession defenders" are just too myopic to see the big picture.

No need to try and be the voice of reason Freight Dog. It's already happening. The last few classes at GJ have had ATA guys in it. Skywest (a carrier that REALLY doesn't have a union) also did this with quite a few UAL furloughed pilots. Whether it sucks or not, Gojet isn't going anywhere.

 

[CX880]

\
It's how GoJets came about to be that is NOT on par with the rest of the regionals. It was specifically formed by Hulas as a non-union alter ego carrier as a union busting move. It hired non union pilots, grew/expanded while the union company of the same holding company, shrunk.

1st, it was formed to fly CRJ7s because TSA couldn't fly them, long before the union negotiations. 2nd, the MEC(went to a nonunion carrier) refused the flying multiple times as well as the actual pilot group. You're making it sound like Hulas all of a sudden formed the seniority list without anyones input. TSA pilots FUKED UP, it's actually as simple as that. Now their company will slowly DIE because of the mistake of voting the flying down. Against ALPAs recommendations, NO other regional to date has voted any flying down, including RAH. Stop blaming others for TSA's mistakes.

The best part is they voted it down because they wanted to make 4 instead of 2 dollars more per hour with a new contract. They said FU to Hulas, fine, GJ pilots got it all. New pay and new contract. Thanks a lot, I'd be pissed as well if I was being furloughed.

 

[captham]

Who are you working for?

LoL whatever, you're a TSA pilot - you're not biased at all, are you? Haha!

That's what you think. There's definitely been a lot of half-truths being told, but it's from TSA pilots. If you want half-truths just look at the crap you TSA dudes are spewing. Here is EXACTLY what I've been saying:


FACT: Gojet was formed so that Hulas could get into the 70-seat market, as American Airlines' agreement with Trans States Airlines (TSA) prohibits TSA from flying anything larger than 50 seats FOR ANY AIRLINE, not just American.

FACT: The TSA pilots argue that Gojet is alter-ego and trying to get around their pilots and their contract.

FACT: That argument was not proven in court or to the NMB, and in fact the opposite was proven (see FACT #1 above).

FACT: Gojet is a separate 121 certificate.

FACT: Gojet has not taken any flying from TSA.

FACT: The TSA pilots were offered a deal for one list by management, including hiring with some benefits of seniority, which the pilots found inadequate due to several items, such as fleet lay-offs (and I have already stated, I probably would have voted against it as well).

Opinion: You should have done what every other regional has done who was SUCCESSFUL in getting one list: Take the consessions and deal with the "crap" that came with them after getting 1 list in the next contract. (I would have regretted voting no on it as well, as I would have and now see that was a mistake)

FACT: Rather than take those consessions, TSA's MEC thought they could strong-arm management and force them for 1 list anyway. At the recommendation of the TSA's MEC, the pilots voted down the offer. Then they went to Court AND filed with the NMB. They lost. It was a huge gamble and it didn't pay off, and now they will NEVER have one list.

FACT: Both airlines are separate and no different than ASA & Skywest being owned by the same holding company. Any attempts of a single carrier status being gained will not happen.


TSA pilot opinions: Gojet pilots work for an "alter-ego" company, just because the TSA pilots didn't get their way and were unsuccessful in forcing management to go one list - they gambled and lost, so now they take it out on the Gojet pilots and say Gojet pilots are "management enablers" and "no better than scabs" (which is what someone ignorant to the industry would say, there is a HUGE difference between their little feud and crossing picket lines).

FACT: No one cares about this little feud except the TSA pilots, EX TSA pilots and those who have nothing else to do but respond to every post they can on the FI board with "mesa sucks!" and dig at every pilot group that is not theirs. This "opinion" is EXTREMELY minor and irrelevant to any Gojet pilot or their futures.

FACT: Gojet is having no problem finding high-time pilots, but is still offering preferrential hiring for TSA furloughed pilots. There are 10 in this month's new-hire class.

FACT: Gojet pilots are having no problems finding jobs at major airlines.

FACT: Gojet pilots ARE NOT having a problem jumpseating, and any TSA pilot who refuses to fly a Gojet jumpseater will find themselves in the chief pilots' office and may be fired (HIS words).

FACT: Gojet pilots ARE NOT giving anyone problems jumpseating. If they did, they'd find themselves in THEIR chief pilots' office.

FACT: Gojet is a regional whore just like any other regional whore. Gojet has not stolen their flying from any other airlines (yet).

FACT: TSA is a regional whore just like any other regional whore. TSA has stolen all of their flying from other airlines.


So what half-truth have I stated, exactly, TSA ERJ? Please, be specific. And before you speak, bring your facts... not your opinion. Or, do as I did, and state it as such.


Opinion: You're stupid if you're a furloughed TSA pilot and don't walk onto Gojet. Enjoy flipping your burgers and hold your head up high (don't knock off your paper hat, though, or let that ALPA pin fall off that you wear on your shirt collar so you can impress the other burger flippers that you are (were) an ALPA member, that's a health code violation!) when you slip that time slip into the clock when you show up.

And if you are NOT a furloughed TSA pilot, you have absolutely no right to tell a TSA furloughed pilot he shouldn't go to Gojet. I bet if you were furloughed your resume would be in the stack as well, but of course you have the luxury of denying it on this anonymous board. That's o.k. - we all know this. Gojet's just about the only game hiring right now unless you want to go overseas. WHEN you are furloughed, we'll see your resume at Gojet and you're lying if you say you won't.

People seem to think I'm just out there defending Gojet. Well, I'm not, really, as I've already stated, I could really give a rat's a$$ about any of it. All I'm doing is giving the non-TSA pilots' perspective. The fact that I disagree with these guys who have a definite bias towards this does not mean I agree with the situation.

I have never stated I agreed with any of it. I merely state what the situation is, minus the TSA pilots' animosity and dripping sarcasm, and the HALF-TRUTHS stated by them about Gojet being "alter-ego" (which is a term used to define an airline created to get around a pilot group's SCOPE, which is NOT the case at Gojet) - and the half a dozen or so TSA pilots who get on this board and try to make it look like "life is hell" for a Gojet pilot is so full of crap it's ridiculous. Life is pretty OK at Gojet, I have no complaints other than it is a regional and it's a regional life.

The life at Gojet isn't anymore "hell" than at TSA. Anyone stating anything different is just plain lying.

Everything in this thread has already been said in the other 2 "let's slam Gojet" threads started by TSA furloughed low-timers and someone inquiring about applying at Gojet, respectively. As was stated earlier, no one's opinions are going to change on this on either side of the coin. Now people have "the other side" in this thread and I can now leave it alone until the next TSA idiot starts another one and once again starts spewing misinformation. I'm done on this one, though. Got better things to do than counter the lies from the same guys about the same things already lied about by them in the other threads. In fact, next time I'll just cut and paste when the next thread starts. ;-)

I wish good luck to all.


cheers!

I just want to ask and you don't have to answer: Did you leave Flops for GoJet?

 

[captham]

Options_Slave don't answer previous question

I figured out your situation. Good Luck!

 

[Freight Dog]

They will become wh0res for doing so. Bring all TSAH pilots under one umbrella?! Hahaha, no. That chance came back when GoJets was first forming. They said no. Then they went on, non-union, until even THEY got Hula-cized. After they couldn't take it anymore, they got a union.

Don't forget, GoJet apparently has pilots from TWA, ATA, the nAAtives. Hell, some of those have been ALPA members from before you were born. The ONLY way you'll ever defeat the management is if you enlist the help of those pilots at the questionable airline... Don't discount those who have been ALPA members longer than you've been alive. Unfortunately, too many old salts who were MD80/L1011/737/757/767 captains now find themselves looking for a job with place like GoJet. I tend to think of them as someone with way more integrity than some zitfaced punk kid with an axe to grind over something that happened years ago.

I know plenty of pilots that carry a "list" and will deny jumpseaters if they are on the "list." And, I also know pilots who will deny jumpseats to GoJets.

I hope those pilots end up getting some unpaid time off for being stupid. But that's another thread...