GM Flight Dept?

[LRvsH25B]

You guys are pathetic, I looked up F on the NYSE and it stood for Ford, I looked up T and guess what it doesn't stand for Toyota. That's because it's NOT an American company.

The money goes out of the country and stays out of the country. It's controlled by and managed by foreigners.

Now get over this BS that they make cars here, big deal. Let me stop and think, is it because they care about the American worker or the American Economy? Heck NO! It's CHEAPER for them to do it, they improve their bottom line doing it, which means more profits go back to Japan (foreign soil). AKA Dollars Leave the US.

FYI Buick makes cars in China, Ford makes cars in Europe. Does that make GM a Chinese company?

Pathetic? Are we insulting each other now?

In some respects you are correct, the $ does go out of the country; some of it. But plenty of it stays right here in the US. I don't care they they are not an american company. I like their cars. What do you say to all the Jews who have Mercedes? The Germans did some pretty rough things to the Jews, but they still buy German.

It may of may not be cheaper for them to build cars here in the US, I don't know and I won't just take your word for it as they still build plenty of cars over in Japan. I do know that Honda is able to put out a commercial telling all of us their Accord is made in Marysville, OH? That's enough for me. I know what a car plant does for a community in terms of jobs, revenue for business owners, tax collection, etc. I spent plenty of time at my Grandfather's farm in BWG, home of the Corvette and it's jumping down there. A car plant brings plenty of $$ to communities; why do you think cities fight/bribe for the right to have them? If a majority of the $ goes to Asia, fine by me as there is plenty left here for the workers who put those cars together, the landlords who rent those people Apartments, the cities who collect their tax from their paychecks, the small business owner who sells gas, squares, booze, toilet paper, and so on and so on.........

 

[jj21211]

I worked at a Ford plant in the 70's, and thats exactly how it was. You'd go to the parking lot during lunch and 3 or 4 out of five were having beer or liquor with lunch (at 2AM). You'd get crap if you worked too fast. Parking lot strewn with bottles during shift change. Grafitti written inside door panels and yes, the occasional empty liquor minature laying in there as well. Driver side power windows failed on both my Suburbans, 500-700 bucks to fix. The four wheel steer rear end failed on my '03. Sorry, theyre discontinued, have to manufacture one from parts, about $4000. etc etc. They fooled me twice. Shame on me.

 

[satpak77]

The money goes out of the country and stays out of the country. It's controlled by and managed by foreigners.

Now get over this BS that they make cars here, big deal. Let me stop and think, is it because they care about the American worker or the American Economy? Heck NO! It's CHEAPER for them to do it, they improve their bottom line doing it, which means more profits go back to Japan (foreign soil). AKA Dollars Leave the US.

FYI Buick makes cars in China, Ford makes cars in Europe. Does that make GM a Chinese company?

I know this is a revolutionary idea, but if GM and the Big Three made better cars than Toyota, profits could stay in the US and money would stay in this country.

Oh wait, thats why we are asking for a bailout.

Silly me

 

[Publishers]

That pales compared to the oil money going out.

 

[G4G5]

TC,

I could not disagree more. My Wife has a 2003 Chevy Trailblazer and it has been perfect. My Dodge Pickup has been flawless for years. I had more problems with my Honda CRV and the never ending check engine light.

Did the big 3 make crap, sure. I put myself through college as an auto mechanic(back in the 80's) making plenty of money off of the crap that they sold.

Today's US made car is not what it was just 10 years ago. Ask any auto mechanic. Does Japan make good car, sure, I drove a Camary for 180,000 miles on the same engine, it only need 4 transmissions to make it that far.

As far as trucks go, the big 3 have the market.

I buy oil so I am sending my money overseas? Somehow that's the same as not buying an American car. I am missing the point

Now back to the topic. From what I read, you are OK with letting the big 3 go ch11? If that's the case you and I differ greatly on the subject.

 

[G4G5]

I know this is a revolutionary idea, but if GM and the Big Three made better cars than Toyota, profits could stay in the US and money would stay in this country.

Oh wait, thats why we are asking for a bailout.

Silly me

No, Toyota and Honda can't ask for a bailout because they ARE NOT US COMPANIES!

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/blog/eyeonasia/archives/2008/11/will_japans_car.html

 

[satpak77]

I feel that Ch.11 exists for a purpose. I don't see why big government should bailout the car makers. Who is next? At what point do we draw the line on who and who does not get bailed out?

The banks? I see some argument based on the way the world financial system works, major bank failures would not be good.

Sure "many people depend on GM." Fine. More reason for Mr. CEO to be cognizant of how he does things. What about Dell computer? Or United Airlines?

Where do we draw the line?

 

[G4G5]

I feel that Ch.11 exists for a purpose. I don't see why big government should bailout the car makers. Who is next? At what point do we draw the line on who and who does not get bailed out?

The banks? I see some argument based on the way the world financial system works, major bank failures would not be good.

Sure "many people depend on GM." Fine. More reason for Mr. CEO to be cognizant of how he does things. What about Dell computer? Or United Airlines?

Where do we draw the line?

Six months ago I would have agreed, let them go ch 11 but 6 years ago the government was denying that we were in a recession. In todays economic climate you can not let them go under.

GM has approximately $43 Billion in debt. Who holds the debt? The banks, the very same ones that WE have given hundreds of billions of dollars to in this bailout. What happens to the debt if GM goes ch11? These very same banks get left holding the bag, only to revieve cents on a dollar.

These very same banks also issued CDO's (insurance on the debt) to the large instutional investors holding GM stock and debt. So guess what, the very same banks that we baild out now have to pay out on the bad GM debt. Guess what, after GM files CH11, we get to bailout the banks once again because they can't afford to eat $43 billion in debt and pay out on the CDO's.

Now do the same thing for Ford.

What about the legacy costs, if GM files ch11 who pays the benefits for the retired workers? You and I do via the PBGC. SO now you get to add the auto works pensions to the likes of Pan AM, the steel and rail road industry. The PBGC can't afford it, this is fact not fiction,and will need to be bailed out. By us, aka tax increases.

Let's, not forget unemployment Ford and GM have OVER a half a BILLION employees combined. A little know fact, when Chrysler when bankrupt in 1979, they laid off half of their work force. Who pays for all of the unemployed?

Now add this to the fact that the govenment now knowledges that we are in a recession. How does letting the big 3 go ch11 shorten the recession? It doesn't. How does it stop it from going deeper? It doesn't, some economist believe that this could be the trigger that takes us from a recession into a depression.

Still think that letting the big 3 go ch11 is a good idea. I'd love to hear any of your arguments. I have given you mine.

GM is looking for a $18 billion dollar bridge loan. Citi got a $20 billion dollar check two weeks ago over a Sunday night (on top of the $25 billion). I say give it to them or we can just send it directly to the banks.

 

[Raskal]

Six months ago I would have agreed, let them go ch 11 but 6 years ago the government was denying that we were in a recession. In todays economic climate you can not let them go under.

GM has approximately $43 Billion in debt. Who holds the debt? The banks, the very same ones that WE have given hundreds of billions of dollars to in this bailout. What happens to the debt if GM goes ch11? These very same banks get left holding the bag, only to revieve cents on a dollar.

These very same banks also issued CDO's (insurance on the debt) to the large instutional investors holding GM stock and debt. So guess what, the very same banks that we baild out now have to pay out on the bad GM debt. Guess what, after GM files CH11, we get to bailout the banks once again because they can't afford to eat $43 billion in debt and pay out on the CDO's.

Now do the same thing for Ford.

What about the legacy costs, if GM files ch11 who pays the benefits for the retired workers? You and I do via the PBGC. SO now you get to add the auto works pensions to the likes of Pan AM, the steel and rail road industry. The PBGC can't afford it, this is fact not fiction,and will need to be bailed out. By us, aka tax increases.

Let's, not forget unemployment Ford and GM have OVER a half a BILLION employees combined. A little know fact, when Chrysler when bankrupt in 1979, they laid off half of their work force. Who pays for all of the unemployed?

Now add this to the fact that the govenment now knowledges that we are in a recession. How does letting the big 3 go ch11 shorten the recession? It doesn't. How does it stop it from going deeper? It doesn't, some economist believe that this could be the trigger that takes us from a recession into a depression.

Still think that letting the big 3 go ch11 is a good idea. I'd love to hear any of your arguments. I have given you mine.

GM is looking for a $18 billion dollar bridge loan. Citi got a $20 billion dollar check two weeks ago over a Sunday night (on top of the $25 billion). I say give it to them or we can just send it directly to the banks.

Very well said. To add a couple of points, there is NO other country who would let its auto industry fail, not one. France is shoving money at Peugot as an example. The reason? Think about it for a minute.

Auto manufacturers actually "make" things which means they are huge consumers as well as manufacturers (rubber, plastic, steel-the auto industry is still the biggest purchasers of these items) so their well-being is tied to industries all over the board. They don't just play with paper all day like AIG, Citi and so on. They are companies that "make" or produce absolutely nothing besides excellent incomes for lobbying firms and gifts for our corrupt government.

Face it, we all got royally screwed by our politicians in the mother of all butt%^&ks with this financial industry bailout-arguably the greatest screwing of a civillian population since Marie wanted everybody to eat cake. I realize you think this is terrible and want the "bailouts" to stop, but it was done wrong in the first place, the money went to the wrong people. Now, we have the opportunity to give a couple of much smaller loans to an industry that means everything to this country, something I know my fellow democrats hate to admit. It is by far the only sensible thing to do.

 

[G4G5]

Boy, I really need to get into proof reading my posts. Too difficult to do from the Iphone