GM Flight Dept?

[AA717driver]

The problems facing the Big Three are not going to be solved outside of Ch. 11(365/1113). They HAVE to fix/eliminate their retiree issues.

When these contracts were first developed, most blue-collar workers died in their 60's. Now, with the "30 and out" still in place, retirees are leaving at age 50 and living well into their 70's and beyond.

My uncle, living on a UAW pension has been retired longer than he worked. The automakers have MILLIONS of people who have retired and are living on their pensions and medical.

Issue 2: As someone said above, they have ailenated so many people in this country with crappy cars and crappier service, millions of us will never buy another Big Three vehicle. The quality sucks and their answer is to tell you to screw yourself.

This is a problem that needs to be solved by the UAW and the BOD. The UAW needs to amend their contracts and the BOD needs to tell management that their way of doing business is broken.

Absent those first steps, these companies will fail regardless of any "bridge loans". Talk about a Bridge to Nowhere...

TC

 

[G4G5]

Hi TC,

A year maybe even 6 months ago I would have said the exact samething. But, in todays economy this could be the big one. 6 months ago the Fed would not even acknowledge that we were in a recession, today everyone is talking about the great depression.

IMHO, in todays current economic climate, letting GM go into ch11 would be devistating. It's not just GM or F, it's all the jobs the suppliers, secondary jobs, Detroit's economy, yada yada.

The $25 billion is a drop in the bucket. How much will the The PBGC (AKA you and I) have to spend on those retiree pensions? Just like Pan Am, the rail roads and the steel industry, you know that's where they will wind up. Add inthe auto industry and the PBGC may go under (aka require a tax on the public to keep it going)

The biggest shoe has yet to drop, GM has $45 BILLION IN DEBT. Who does that crush if they file ch11? The banks, the ones we just lent the billions to in the first place. Not to mention the CDO market, the banks were betting huge that GM would never file so they will be looking at getting only cents on the dollar for the debt and then having to cover the stock losses to the institutional investors because they wrote billions in CDO's. This will take YEARS to get figured out in the courts.

Nope, I have to say in today's economy it's not a good idea to let Gm or F go ch11. This goes beyond the Nth power, it's hard for anyone to comprehend how far this will trickle down. One thing for sure it would definatly deepen the recession and make it longer. Some economists are saying this could lead us into a depression. No Thanks, give them the loan, when compaired to what AIG or banks, got it's peanuts.

 

[satpak77]

Hi TC,

Nope, I have to say in today's economy it's not a good idea to let Gm or F go ch11. This goes beyond the Nth power, it's hard for anyone to comprehend how far this will trickle down. One thing for sure it would definatly deepen the recession and make it longer. Some economists are saying this could lead us into a depression. No Thanks, give them the loan, when compaired to what AIG or banks, got it's peanuts.

But when do we say when? At what point do we stop putting govt money after bad? How many bailouts are we going to give, say, US Airways?

What happens when Toyota or Honda, thru good business practices, and smart engineering, has produced a quality product, now continue to compete with Big 3 Detroit who are all on government welfare?

People say "yeah but so many victims if GM dies". I understand that.

Maybe Big 3 should have thought of that 10 years ago and reminded themselves of how many people depend on them.

Sadly it looks like they didn't.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

But when do we say when? At what point do we stop putting govt money after bad? How many bailouts are we going to give, say, US Airways?

What happens when Toyota or Honda, thru good business practices, and smart engineering, has produced a quality product, now continue to compete with Big 3 Detroit who are all on government welfare?

People say "yeah but so many victims if GM dies". I understand that.

Maybe Big 3 should have thought of that 10 years ago and reminded themselves of how many people depend on them.

Sadly it looks like they didn't.

Instead of thinking that we are awesome free market operators... why not understand that a little front end regulation is better than allot of back end dumping of billions of tax payers dollars?

 

[stupidpilot]

Because its not. Whenever the govt has gotten involved in the market, it's made it worse. FDR's New Deal was estimated to have extended the Great Depression by as much as 7 years.

 

[On Your Six]

According to the WSJ, the home-building industry is now looking for its share of the bailout. Potentially asking for $50 billion or more.

 

[SansPlane]

[FONT=&quot]Could be part of the problem right here… union workers should be on birth control not procreating…[/FONT]
GM Spends $17 Million Per Year on Viagra

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/04/gm_viagra.html

April 18, 2006
Lifestyle -- chiefly Viagra -- are costing General Motors $17 million dollars a year and the cost is passed along to car, truck and consumers. The blue pill is covered under GM's labor agreement with United Auto Workers, as well as benefit plans for salaried employees.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

My first car was a Chevy. I was driving down the highway one day, and it caught on fire.

We own 3 Japanese cars now.

cliff
YIP

 

[TransMach]

ATPCLIFF,

And those three "Japanese" cars were built, where? Most likley right here in the good old U.S. of A. Yup, Toyota, Honda and Nissa beat the snot out of GM, Ford and "C" and build more cars, better cars and cheaper cars right here ... they even build them here for export.

Screw me ...

TransMach

 

[satpak77]

ATPCLIFF,

And those three "Japanese" cars were built, where? Most likley right here in the good old U.S. of A. Yup, Toyota, Honda and Nissa beat the snot out of GM, Ford and "C" and build more cars, better cars and cheaper cars right here ... they even build them here for export.

Screw me ...

TransMach

While GM is getting govt bailout, who is helping Honda or Toyota?

Is this not unlike a Ch.11 airline that drops airfare to bleed the non-Ch.11 carriers at the local hub?