Getting Clearance when Tower is Closed!!!

[Stifler's Mom]

I believe, correct me if I am wrong, ASA doesn't allow "Night Visuals" at certain airports until you have been vectored onto final. I believe ROA has this, and is mostly likely due to mountainous terrain. (ie AVL too????)

I believe some other operators have this restriction too.

 

[SLUF4]

I believe, correct me if I am wrong, ASA doesn't allow "Night Visuals" at certain airports until you have been vectored onto final. I believe ROA has this, and is mostly likely due to mountainous terrain. (ie AVL too????)

I believe some other operators have this restriction too.

This is true. BTV was like that too-you can see it in the 10-10 pages.

 

[Sig]

Hmm. Yup, my tongue in cheek rant about "FMS" and trying to make a "thinking outside the box" connection failed miserably, much like when a reporter draws a total blank when the TelePrompTer fails. Fuggetaboudit.

But here's a real question (eventually): It's my understanding that OpSpecs are essentially cobbled together out of a long list of available items. Is this true? Because PDT's explicity forbids us from cancelling IFR prior to landing at an uncontrolled field. It totally hamstrings us (if adhered to), and I was wondering who else operates under the same goofy rule.

Here's another one: You're landing at an uncontrolled field at night. ASOS is reporting 1/4 in fog. You picked up the field 30 miles out, and can see the entire airport from the traffic pattern... Can you land?

 

[WSurf]

Hmm. Yup, my tongue in cheek rant about "FMS" and trying to make a "thinking outside the box" connection failed miserably, much like when a reporter draws a total blank when the TelePrompTer fails. Fuggetaboudit.

But here's a real question (eventually): It's my understanding that OpSpecs are essentially cobbled together out of a long list of available items. Is this true? Because PDT's explicity forbids us from cancelling IFR prior to landing at an uncontrolled field. It totally hamstrings us (if adhered to), and I was wondering who else operates under the same goofy rule.

Here's another one: You're landing at an uncontrolled field at night. ASOS is reporting 1/4 in fog. You picked up the field 30 miles out, and can see the entire airport from the traffic pattern... Can you land?

Sig your right, However if someone is manning the Common Traffic Freq. on the ground and you establish communication with them you may Cancel at a Uncontrolled field while in the air.

With Reguards to the Fog and ASOS, we'll just read below.

Like the Old Salty Dog Frank would say, "Just Use Fukin Common Sense.!"

 

[Max Q]

A little tangent, I've had it report 3sm AND picked up the runway 30 miles out and everything was gravy until the flare.

-Brett

 

[WSurf]

A little tangent, I've had it report 3sm AND picked up the runway 30 miles out and everything was gravy until the flare.

-Brett

Yea, I have seen that too. Problem with landing with the ASOS below approach mins with the actual weather CLR and 10 is that it will be hard to explain it to the Feds why you were landing in the first place if something goes wrong.

We have this problem in EWN where the ASOS device is located next to a river and you can sometimes get bad readings.

 

[FirstMate]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when I was at PDT, wasn't it against the GOM to take off VFR and THEN get the IFR clnce while airborne?

 

[Sig]

Like the Old Salty Dog Frank would say, "Just Use Fukin Common Sense.!"

EXACTLY... until you do it and DX self discloses on your arse. It's a nightmare in Stankbury sometimes, especially when common sense would dictate having a freaking trained weather observer in DX so they could step outside, say "yup, it's VFR and the ASOS is busted..." I can't think a way out of it at midnight, "alone," and the new meat in "the sandwich de traileur" is ready to drop a dime to Baltimore after playing realworld pilot.

Stupid.

Firstmate: I thought we had 50 miles to pick one up airborne. Could be wrong, never tried anyway.

** Same problem in SBY as EWN- the weather station is by a treeline, adjacent to a wide ditch. Smart.

 

[FirstMate]

PGV was always a good one to collect a few extra coins while waiting on G/A aircraft to cancel or RDU FSS to respond.

 

[LearLove]

like others have said - get the/your clearance at the gate and tell them you'll call for release when your number 1 at "planned runway" in about "x number of minutes". Always worked for me part 135 or 121.

I don't claim to be the all knowing yeagerlike aviator but unless someone can show/tell me otherwise doing the above will not close the airport.

 

[LearLove]

( I would rather get the clearance while parked, rather than doing the changes while taxiing....especially at night, and in an unfamiliar airport).

Now if guys are still at the gate, and saying they are ready, now you got an arguement.

same here - every mistake that I can remember wrt flying on my part has come from doing something out of order/procedure or being (or allowing myself to be)rushed.

 

[cldsfr79]

Um....This isn't rocket science. As others have noted you ask for a "hold for release".

Even if some guy is on the ground with a void time, and you are in-bound, if it's VFR out, you cancel IFR. Bingo! You can now land, not to hard right?

If you are departing and you are stuck behind some guy who's taking their sweet time or still at "the gate", if it's vfr, ask for a VFR climb.

What's the problem here?

 

[WSurf]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when I was at PDT, wasn't it against the GOM to take off VFR and THEN get the IFR clnce while airborne?

GOM? We had one of those while you were here? LOL

There are guidlines I believe in taking off VFR and getting your Clearance Airborne. I know that we used be able to do it, but your Dispatcher had to know directly why this was going on. Plus the Weather had to be really good VFR.

I never needed to do it, but I have heard of people that have. Kinda hard to know why one would want or need to do it. Especially since we all carry cellphones these days.

 

[Airboss]

Key flight service telephone numbers

• Report a problem or complaint:
  888/358-7782 (888/FLT-SRVC)
• Briefing/file a flight plan:
  800/992-7433 (800/WX-BRIEF)

• IFR clearance delivery:
  888/766-8267

This number is run by Lockheed Martin. When you are taxing out, call it.

 

[Prog 2/2]

When you are taxing out, call it.

Yep.

Exactly what you want to be doing as you taxi......yapping on your cell phone.:laugh:

 

[WSurf]

Yep.

Exactly what you want to be doing as you taxi......yapping on your cell phone.:laugh:

Look, why all the fuss. Can you do it while actually moving in the plane. "Yes" Would that be dumb "Yes".


Come on you peanut heads. Taxi to the Hold Short Line. Finish all your checks, grab your phone and make a call.

Duh!

Like old Salty Dog Frank would say, "Just use common Fukin Sense".

 

[FirstMate]

Like old Salty Dog Frank would say, "Just use common Fukin Sense".

And....

"Quit fiddle-fukin with the power levers!!!" <as the back of your seat is being kicked>:crying:

 

[jetfueljunkey]

yeah and there has never been any other regional take off of a runway with the lights off right?

Mesa and CHQ are the biggest offenders...especially in AVL....Who says experience doesn't count?...They don't teach real word in the puppy farms in Florida....

I've watched Mesa take off twice in AVL without turning on the lights....

There is no substitute for experience......

 

[MJ42]

Um....This isn't rocket science. As others have noted you ask for a "hold for release".

Even if some guy is on the ground with a void time, and you are in-bound, if it's VFR out, you cancel IFR. Bingo! You can now land, not to hard right?

If you are departing and you are stuck behind some guy who's taking their sweet time or still at "the gate", if it's vfr, ask for a VFR climb.

What's the problem here?

Seems there are only a few of us on here that actually understand the regs! It's very simple, yet so many cumbersome(albeit legal) answers have been posted. Most of the answers are adequate for GA flying, but not 121. "HOLD FOR RELEASE", is the simplest and MOST professional way to handle picking up a clearance when the tower is closed.

Picking up a clearance using this method has several advantages: 1) Ability to set up nav radios/FMS based off your actual ATC CLEARANCE while still at the gate. 2) Not delaying other departures at that airport. 3) Saves fuel and time by not having to do everything at the end of the runway. 4) Having your HEAD UP while taxiing!!!

Come on guys, we're professionals, do it the professional way! If the controller does not give you a "hold for release" clearance then YOU request it.

It's very simple, why all the questions? Act like the professionals we're supposed to be, please review BASIC IFR procedures.

EDIT: cldsfr79 brings up another valid point..."VFR climb", yet another useful tool professionals should understand and implement when necessary(wx permitting).

 

[buscap]

(In my best Handy-Man voice)

Yeth!

Yooouuu Freakin eedeeeoootttsss!!!

but eeeffff da weder is such dat I kannot get ooowwwttt VVEEEEFFFFFRRRRR...den I aaammm thtuck on da ground unteeeeellllll Keptin DUUUMMMAAASSSS calls AAYYYY TTEEEE CEEEE.