Getting Clearance when Tower is Closed!!!

buscap

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I won't say where.

I won't say when.

I won't say who.

But.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the tower is closed and you are still at the gate, do not call center for your clearance.

Why?....You might ask? Well, you stupid piece of moronic ooze, let's just say you have now shut down the airport. Look it up in the AIM or just do the math!!!

I don't blame the FO for this. This is a failure on the Captain's part. He may not be any smarter than the FO, but he is most likely more EXPERIENCED!!

So Captain DUUUMMMMAAASSS, thanks for trapping me at the airport while you boarded your pathetic little freakin plane!!!

Yeah, I know I couldv'e got out VFR, blah Blah Blah!!!
But I happen to like that IFR safety net. Is it too much to ask you morons to not be so inconsiderate???!!!
 

Headfake14

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DUDE...I feel your pain.

This $hit happened to me ALL the time in Ashville, NC for the early morning departures. Some stupid tool, and it always that damn Airways Dash8, would call for clrnc long before he was ready, hosing us (ASA) and an ERJ that was always ready before them. Sometimes there would be a sharp/smart center controller and he'd ask.."are you ready now". If you answered no, he'd say call back when you are at the runway.

That $hit pissed me off all the time.
 

sweptback

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This happened to me a few years ago. An unnamed crew, evidently oblivious to the fact that we were taxiing out to the runway, calls center for clearance. He was given a void time 4 minutes from now, pretty standard, except for the fact he hadn't even pushed back yet.

Said crew then busts their ass taxiing out, misses the void time, and instead of calling center again to fess up, just decides to take off. Not just a minute or so beyond their time, but several.

We're just sitting there, somewhat in disbelief, collecting overblock. It was worth it to hear them get a tongue-lashing from center. Thank goodness for them it was a clear VFR day, it could have gotten ugly for them otherwise.
 

SLUF4

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Had a dash 8 do that to me in AGS and in FLO within the last year or two...maybe they teach them that way for some weird reason.
 

Turtlesfly

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they don't teach us anything about "real world" stuff like that in upgrade. It's just more V1 cuts and single-engine approaches plus CRM
 

flyf15

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they don't teach us anything about "real world" stuff like that in upgrade. It's just more V1 cuts and single-engine approaches plus CRM
I remember teaching this stuff.... to my 75 hour total time instrument students.
 

buscap

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This is not something which should be TAUGHT in upgrade. It's basic IFR knowledge. Crap like this is assumed, otherwise upgrades would be about three months longer while the training department taught the Captain how to file a freakin flight plan!!!
 

chperplt

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I won't say where.

I won't say when.

I won't say who.

But.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the tower is closed and you are still at the gate, do not call center for your clearance.

Why?....You might ask? Well, you stupid piece of moronic ooze, let's just say you have now shut down the airport. Look it up in the AIM or just do the math!!!

I don't blame the FO for this. This is a failure on the Captain's part. He may not be any smarter than the FO, but he is most likely more EXPERIENCED!!

So Captain DUUUMMMMAAASSS, thanks for trapping me at the airport while you boarded your pathetic little freakin plane!!!

Yeah, I know I couldv'e got out VFR, blah Blah Blah!!!
But I happen to like that IFR safety net. Is it too much to ask you morons to not be so inconsiderate???!!!

Getting a clearance from Center while at the gate will only "close" the airport down as you put it if you don't get a hold for release clearance. Center should always give you a hold for release clearance unless you tell them you are #1 at the runway and ready.
 

cwebster2

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call center and get your clearance at the gate, but tell the controller you'll call back for your release. Its always worked for me, and it avoids shutting down the airport. just call back for your release when you are number 1, its easy.

granted not all controllers seem able to get the idea that you might not want the release with the clearance, but requesting to "hold for release" will send the message.
 

buscap

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Getting a clearance from Center while at the gate will only "close" the airport down as you put it if you don't get a hold for release clearance. Center should always give you a hold for release clearance unless you tell them you are #1 at the runway and ready.

Weeeelllll I got some bad news. Center will give the clearance.....because FO IDUNNO and CAPTAIN DDDUUUMMMAAASSS don't tell them they're still at the gate!!!

And center doesn't always feel like babysitting and playing twenty questions....questions like...how ya doin?......been flyin long???....what kinda music you like??....You still at the gate???

And what makes it all so much more freakin fun is when our two heroes then turn the radio to another frequency while center repeatedly tries to call them, about why they haven't taken off yet!!!!....while sitting at the gate!!!
 

BigPappa

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The name is DO MAAS, and no it is not French!
 

kf4amu

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Clearance is different than release. I'll get my damn clearance whenever they give it to me. If they release me, thats there prerogative. Many time after reading back the clearance I'll add "I'll call when we're number 1 for takeoff". It's not required, but it avoids the problem you described.

It's happened to me many times behind ASA newbies as well.
 

JoeMerchant

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Mesa and CHQ are the biggest offenders...especially in AVL....Who says experience doesn't count?...They don't teach real word in the puppy farms in Florida....

I've watched Mesa take off twice in AVL without turning on the lights....:rolleyes:

There is no substitute for experience......
 

MJ42

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Getting a clearance from Center while at the gate will only "close" the airport down as you put it if you don't get a hold for release clearance. Center should always give you a hold for release clearance unless you tell them you are #1 at the runway and ready.
Smartest post on this thread! This is BASIC IFR knowledge. HOLD FOR RELEASE. As a matter of respect for others departing around the same time, please take the initiative and ASK FOR IT as you pick up your clearance. Saves both time and fuel instead of trying to do it all at the end of the runway.
 

say again

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Weeeelllll I got some bad news. Center will give the clearance.....because FO IDUNNO and CAPTAIN DDDUUUMMMAAASSS don't tell them they're still at the gate!!!

And center doesn't always feel like babysitting and playing twenty questions....questions like...how ya doin?......been flyin long???....what kinda music you like??....You still at the gate???

And what makes it all so much more freakin fun is when our two heroes then turn the radio to another frequency while center repeatedly tries to call them, about why they haven't taken off yet!!!!....while sitting at the gate!!!
Weeeellllllll, more bad news... until someone "teaches" these guys, you're SOL!!! Maybe you should stop at there gate each time and run a "when to obtain an IFR clearance when tower is closed" class.
 

chperplt

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Weeeelllll I got some bad news. Center will give the clearance.....because FO IDUNNO and CAPTAIN DDDUUUMMMAAASSS don't tell them they're still at the gate!!!

And center doesn't always feel like babysitting and playing twenty questions....questions like...how ya doin?......been flyin long???....what kinda music you like??....You still at the gate???

And what makes it all so much more freakin fun is when our two heroes then turn the radio to another frequency while center repeatedly tries to call them, about why they haven't taken off yet!!!!....while sitting at the gate!!!
I fly into a few uncontrolled airports and every clearance I've received from the Center folks has always been a hold for release. I've never had to specifically ask for it.

IF you're being stuck, I can't imagine these clearances are being given with an indefinite void time.

By the way you write, I think this is more of a flame post than a real concern.
 

Max Q

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"Cleared as filed... squawk 1234... what runway and how long?"

"Runway 36, 15 minutes"

"Hold for release, call number one ready to go"

-Brett
 

Sig

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My cokc is far larger than yours. Ask my wife. She laughs at the way you still try to "push the button," but fail miserably to get the job done. The upside is that I get home to a frustrated wife, and make it happen manually. Again.

Having said that, as a Dash8 driver,

I freaking HATE it when some FMS beholden twat lands and taxis in... while a 121 flight is still clearly holding over the OM to get in waiting for said dewsh to cancel. UNV much, idiots?

The cure? Route clearance, hold for release. PDT has been conditioned to call as early as possible for a clearance to CLT. If anyone has been affected by the lack of SA, I refuse to apoligize- but offer a prayer:

May you get block or better, and the sense to turn off the gate. May the captain have a remote understanding of fuel burn, cash money without end,

Amen.
 

lookin4better

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they don't teach us anything about "real world" stuff like that in upgrade. It's just more V1 cuts and single-engine approaches plus CRM
uh? .......uh...wow..
 
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