Getting Clearance when Tower is Closed!!!

[buscap]

I fly into a few uncontrolled airports and every clearance I've received from the Center folks has always been a hold for release. I've never had to specifically ask for it.

IF you're being stuck, I can't imagine these clearances are being given with an indefinite void time.

By the way you write, I think this is more of a flame post than a real concern.

Flame style maybe, but this happens and way too often. It's a combination of mistakes by the pilot and controller. And it's always fellow regional pilots.

And yeah, the airport is only shutdown until the void time, but it's still a pain in the butt. And it's professionally embarrasing and frustrating.

 

[chperplt]

Flame style maybe, but this happens and way too often. It's a combination of mistakes by the pilot and controller. And it's always fellow regional pilots.

And yeah, the airport is only shutdown until the void time, but it's still a pain in the butt. And it's professionally embarrasing and frustrating.

Have you ever asked the Center folks why they're issuing such long void times to an airplane still at the gate?

E-mail your CP and let him/her work it up the food chain. Fuel costs too much these days to be wasting it. Our CP and DO have gotten a lot done with ATC to help the efficiency of our operation and saved us a lot of headaches.

 

[Capt10Matt]

Ok CLEARANCE vs. RELEASE (i.e. you got a void time)....good topic, misleading thread name.

Correct me if I'm wrong but it's my understanding for certain airports like Charlotte (PSA, PDT), getting a clearance is needed for ATC to give a proposed EXPECTED wheels up time for metering. Getting a CLEARANCE is not the issue.

This doesn't mean we should accept any release/void times that would interfere with any other carrier (besides Mesa of course, who, as most of us all know...still sucks).

 

[McNugget]

you guys are arguing with nuts and anus

 

[stlflyguy]

I've had similar issues when guys wanted to call FSS to retrieve their clearance. First, we were at the gate and I told the F/O to just wait until we were in the taxi or holding short of the runway to obtain the clearance. Second, calling the FSS wasn't needed as the center RCO was on the field. Try the center first, then the FSS.

stlflyguy

 

[skiandsurf]

I won't say where.

I won't say when.

I won't say who.

But.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the tower is closed and you are still at the gate, do not call center for your clearance.

Why?....You might ask? Well, you stupid piece of moronic ooze, let's just say you have now shut down the airport. Look it up in the AIM or just do the math!!!

I don't blame the FO for this. This is a failure on the Captain's part. He may not be any smarter than the FO, but he is most likely more EXPERIENCED!!

So Captain DUUUMMMMAAASSS, thanks for trapping me at the airport while you boarded your pathetic little freakin plane!!!

Yeah, I know I couldv'e got out VFR, blah Blah Blah!!!
But I happen to like that IFR safety net. Is it too much to ask you morons to not be so inconsiderate???!!!

I love it when these low time guys (6500hrs) come on here like they know everything.

It took me a few minutes to understand your rant. I thought you were upset that ATC freq was being tied up for clearances. Then I read more, and see that you think that because a guy gets his clearance, the airport is now closed. Is this what you think. I had this same scenario twice last week. I got the clearance from an approach controller, while parked on the ramp. They asked when we would be ready, I told them about 5-10 minutes. They give the usual "hold for release, and call when number 1 for takeoff". Didnt close the airport for at all.

( I would rather get the clearance while parked, rather than doing the changes while taxiing....especially at night, and in an unfamiliar airport).

Now if guys are still at the gate, and saying they are ready, now you got an arguement.

Relax....get some more experience. Things will be ok.

 

[WSurf]

DUDE...I feel your pain.

This $hit happened to me ALL the time in Ashville, NC for the early morning departures. Some stupid tool, and it always that damn Airways Dash8, would call for clrnc long before he was ready, hosing us (ASA) and an ERJ that was always ready before them. Sometimes there would be a sharp/smart center controller and he'd ask.."are you ready now". If you answered no, he'd say call back when you are at the runway.

That $hit pissed me off all the time.

Yea and we love to do a Holding Pattern on the last leg of the night waiting for you guys to fly the Full ILS in your damn ATR into AVL when Its CLR and 10 miles!

I guess were even!

But should we care? Hell I get paid Block or Better.... Don't sweat it! Taxi off the gate and wait for 20minutes for your Clearance.

 

[WSurf]

My cokc is far larger than yours. Ask my wife. She laughs at the way you still try to "push the button," but fail miserably to get the job done. The upside is that I get home to a frustrated wife, and make it happen manually. Again.

Having said that, as a Dash8 driver,

I freaking HATE it when some FMS beholden twat lands and taxis in... while a 121 flight is still clearly holding over the OM to get in waiting for said dewsh to cancel. UNV much, idiots?

The cure? Route clearance, hold for release. PDT has been conditioned to call as early as possible for a clearance to CLT. If anyone has been affected by the lack of SA, I refuse to apoligize- but offer a prayer:

May you get block or better, and the sense to turn off the gate. May the captain have a remote understanding of fuel burn, cash money without end,

Amen.

Sig, didn't see that you beat me too it!


Here's your AMEN! ATR/DASH 8, come on! We fly slow f'in planes. Mo Money Mo Money Mo Money!

 

[McNugget]

Try FSS.

stlflyguy

You have to file your own flightplan too? Must suck to fly the..what is it called...a turboprop?

 

[BoilerUP]

BLAST FROM THE RECENT PAST...

 

[buscap]

I love it when these low time guys (6500hrs) come on here like they know everything.

It took me a few minutes to understand your rant. I thought you were upset that ATC freq was being tied up for clearances. Then I read more, and see that you think that because a guy gets his clearance, the airport is now closed. Is this what you think. I had this same scenario twice last week. I got the clearance from an approach controller, while parked on the ramp. They asked when we would be ready, I told them about 5-10 minutes. They give the usual "hold for release, and call when number 1 for takeoff". Didnt close the airport for at all.

( I would rather get the clearance while parked, rather than doing the changes while taxiing....especially at night, and in an unfamiliar airport).

Now if guys are still at the gate, and saying they are ready, now you got an arguement.

Relax....get some more experience. Things will be ok.

Last reply for clarity purposes folks!!!

Center will not let you go in this situation. You are stuck until Center gets comms with FO IDUNNO and Captain DDDUUUMMMAAASS or until the void time expires.

It's that simple. And unfortunately I have plenty of experience with this happening.

It ain't dangerous, but it sure is a pain in the butt at the butt-crack of dawn when you're trying to get to the house.

I'm definitely putting this on my gripe list for the next FESTIVAS.

 

[Long Time Gone]

Clearance is different than release. I'll get my damn clearance whenever they give it to me. If they release me, thats there prerogative. Many time after reading back the clearance I'll add "I'll call when we're number 1 for takeoff". It's not required, but it avoids the problem you described.

It's happened to me many times behind ASA newbies as well.

You must be the one who did it. Nice way to admit it. It must be those 250 hours TT you have. Maybe it's the Commercial License.

If they release me, thats there prerogative.

Learn grammar and spelling. It shows a much higher professional demeanor. It's "that's" as in "that is" (not "thats"), and "their" (not "there").

Go back to school Junior.

 

[Long Time Gone]

My cokc is far larger than yours. Ask my wife. She laughs at the way you still try to "push the button," but fail miserably to get the job done. The upside is that I get home to a frustrated wife, and make it happen manually. Again.

Having said that, as a Dash8 driver,

I freaking HATE it when some FMS beholden twat lands and taxis in... while a 121 flight is still clearly holding over the OM to get in waiting for said dewsh to cancel. UNV much, idiots?

The cure? Route clearance, hold for release. PDT has been conditioned to call as early as possible for a clearance to CLT. If anyone has been affected by the lack of SA, I refuse to apoligize- but offer a prayer:

May you get block or better, and the sense to turn off the gate. May the captain have a remote understanding of fuel burn, cash money without end,

Amen.

What does an FMS have to do with it? Does your KNS660 not work?

Wait..........

Does this have anything to do with this thread? NO.

 

[Headfake14]

Yea and we love to do a Holding Pattern on the last leg of the night waiting for you guys to fly the Full ILS in your damn ATR into AVL when Its CLR and 10 miles!

I guess were even!

But should we care? Hell I get paid Block or Better.... Don't sweat it! Taxi off the gate and wait for 20minutes for your Clearance.

The ONLY time I had to do that...

I could see the runway, twr was closed. There was fog around (1am)...could see a little on the field, but not the runway. AVL was calling 3/4 mile. Ctr can't do vectors to final (34) because he doesn't have it depicted...so...must do the full. I called it insight, but ctr wouldn't let us do the visual due to the reported vis.

Yes, I could've cxld IFR I suppse, but there was fog at most other nearby airports and in the unlikely event of "not making it in", we didn't want to do that.

I don't know what the other crews you are refering to did and why.

 

[WSurf]

The ONLY time I had to do that...

I could see the runway, twr was closed. There was fog around (1am)...could see a little on the field, but not the runway. AVL was calling 3/4 mile. Ctr can't do vectors to final (34) because he doesn't have it depicted...so...must do the full. I called it insight, but ctr wouldn't let us do the visual due to the reported vis.

Yes, I could've cxld IFR I suppse, but there was fog at most other nearby airports and in the unlikely event of "not making it in", we didn't want to do that.

I don't know what the other crews you are refering to did and why.

Do you even fly for ASA? My understanding after landing and talking to the ATR Captain is that even if its 10 miles and Clear they must still do the Full Approach according to their Manual when flying into AVL.

I simply Cx'ed IFR when asked to hold and slipped right in. Instead of whinning and crying about it on FlightInfo, I instead had a nice chat with the ASA Crew and we all decided to go out for a few beers!

 

[Headfake14]

flew it for 8 years at ASA. Maybe that is a new procedure or something. I don't remember all the old FOM stuff. And I avoided AVL for a while since the layover went to crap...then it was only and RJ for a while. So it's been at least 3 or 4yrs since I did the late arrival there. I was usually there early...hence my experience with the Dash getting his clearence while at the gate.

I only did the full approach a few times. All but that one night was low IFR.

Hmmm...Maybe I inadvertantly broke a rule...well...they haven't found out yet.

 

[say again]

You guys need to relax just a bit!! Or is this what you guys really worry at night about??

 

[kf4amu]

Learn grammar and spelling. It shows a much higher professional demeanor. It's "that's" as in "that is" (not "thats"), and "their" (not "there").

Go back to school Junior.

Why go back to school when I got such nice people on FI to correct me?

You must be the one who did it. Nice way to admit it. It must be those 250 hours TT you have. Maybe it's the Commercial License.

If apostrophes bother you that much, I cant imagine how big your veins get get when the airports shut down.

 

[COOPERVANE]

"If apostrophes bother you that much, I cant imagine how big your veins get get when the airports shut down."




ESL classes are offered at many metro area churches and schools.

 

[Goose Egg]

For what it's worth, I did this once (and only once!) when I was a complete newbie on IOE. I learned quick. Once was all it took.

-Goose