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Gary Kelly Ain't Waitin' for the DOJ!!

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So what do you suggest. You know staple is not going to be the outcome !!

It's going to be fences on 737 too. What crews can
Go intl. What crews have had raft training.

It is going to be mix of DOH and relative seniority.
Which I think is fair. Yes AT 7 yr FO upgrade will not
happen either.

Except for top 800 guys DOH before 1993.
 
scarlet,

Do a search. Your CEO has saii the same about growth and near future plans.


AirTran CEO Bob Fornaro stressed in a conference call with reporters on Monday that AirTran had "done a lot with not much" in terms of financial resources, but that it was becoming less clear that AirTran had the ability to grow and remain competitive in an industry where the size of a carrier's route network is increasingly important.
Quote:
"Southwest has, relative to AirTran, vast resources," Fornaro said. It became clear that "we could do more with Southwest resources" than AirTran could do on its own.
Quote:
"The Southwest culture is unbelievable, and its employees have the highest passion I've ever seen in the industry," says Don Schmincke, a Baltimore-based author and speaker. "Can they convert AirTran employees
Quote:
“This agreement is great news for our Crew Members, our shareholders, our customers and the communities we serve. Joining Southwest Airlines will give us opportunities to grow, both professionally as individuals and as a group, in ways that simply would not be possible without this agreement,” said Bob Fornaro
Quote:
“We have evolved our company to be able to take on a growth opportunity like this,” Kelly said.
Quote:

At the request of Hartsfield-Jackson, Delta and AirTran began working together on a new lease agreement as far back as a year ago. The major terms of the lease, agreed to months before AirTran began talking to Southwest, would have the net effect to "keep Southwest out" by limiting the number of open gates available for the Dallas-based airline.​



“Delta and AirTran used each other to get the best deal they could at the airport,” said someone familiar with the negotiations. “But when Delta started throwing AirTran under the bus, AirTran had an alternative. AirTran had outsmarted Delta.”​




“Delta is going to feel pain like never before,” he said. “It is totally unavoidable.”
The real reason is that Southwest will “erode Delta’s pricing power” in the domestic market, where Delta already is at a disadvantage because of higher per-person operating costs. ​

​






Quote:
01/27/2010 CEO Robert Fornaro addressed the issue during a conference call Wednesday to discuss the airline's fourth-quarter financial results. QUESTION: How do you view the industry landscape and your prospects for growth in an improving economy?
​
​


Quote:


RESPONSE: "It's not our plan to scour the market and look for new planes. ... Right now, it's financial success first for us."




Quote:
2010-04-22
​
Quote:


ATLANTA -- AirTran Airways isn't putting up a for-sale sign, but the CEO of the discount carrier said Wednesday it would consider a combination with another carrier if approached and if such a deal made sense for the company and shareholders. CEO Robert Fornaro made the comments during a conference call with investors to discuss the airline's first-quarter financial results. Higher fuel prices stung AirTran, causing the usually profitable airline to post a $12 million loss for the first three months of the year.​




Quote:
2009-02-06
​
Quote:


Comments ATLANTA (Map, News) - Discount carrier AirTran Airways doesn't expect any overall growth for two years as it tries to weather the severe downturn in the U.S. economy, though it will add service in Milwaukee in a renewed effort to gain market share there, Chief Executive Robert Fornaro said Thursday. Fornaro told a gathering of analysts at the Raymond James & Associates Growth Airline Conference that AirTran will cut capacity in 2009 and likely will be flat in terms of capacity in 2010, but in 2011 it could (doesnt mean it would) grow at least 5 percent. In the meantime, it will make a push in Milwaukee.​

Quote:


AirTran pilots to picket outside annual meeting

Originally published: May 17, 2010 4:37 PM
By The Associated Press HARRY R. WEBER (AP Airlines Writer)
ATLANTA - (AP) — AirTran Airways' pilots plan to picket outside the discount carrier's annual meeting to step up pressure on management over the workers' more than five-year effort to secure a new contract with better wages and quality-of-life improvements.
They also expect to announce during Tuesday's shareholders' meeting in Milwaukee that rank-and-file pilots have authorized the union to call a strike if it chooses.
At stake is AirTran's low-cost advantage over larger rivals that has allowed it to lead the way on fare sales and usually still turn a profit. AirTran posted a small loss for the first quarter but said it expects future cost pressures from fuel and maintenance. Additional labor costs could further affect its bottom line.


AirTran captains in their 10th year of service who fly 75 hours a month on small narrowbody aircraft earn on average $129,000 a year, compared with $143,000 at American and $197,000 at Southwest Airlines, according to aviation consultant Kit Darby, who tracks pilot pay across the industry.​


​
 
Last edited:
Ashame you don't know a 10th AT cpt. Can tell you it's
not 129,000

So again. What do u suggest. I ask again

Go ahead look in mirror so you know now and not get mad when
it comes out. Repeat it over and over.

It is not going to be a staple. Now repeat again
It is not going to be a staple. What would I be happy with? Ask
yourself that.
 
scarlet said:
Ashame you don't know a 10th AT cpt. Can tell you it's
not 129,000

So again. What do u suggest. I ask again

Go ahead look in mirror so you know now and not get mad when
it comes out. Repeat it over and over.

It is not going to be a staple. Now repeat again
It is not going to be a staple. What would I be happy with? Ask
yourself that.
Click to expand...

Dude, why are you beating on a dead horse? This stuff has already been covered, it is out of our hands and will probably be settled by an arbitrator. You need to let it go.
 
I didnt mention anything about an SLI. Just refuting your stupid comments on growth at SWA compared to AAI whopping 50 airplane orders. Most know a SWA CA makes more then $197,000 also. Whats your point?
 
scarlet said:
So what do you suggest. You know staple is not going to be the outcome !!

It's going to be fences on 737 too. What crews can
Go intl. What crews have had raft training.

It is going to be mix of DOH and relative seniority.
Which I think is fair. Yes AT 7 yr FO upgrade will not
happen either.

Except for top 800 guys DOH before 1993.
Click to expand...

You are right, how will SWA ever get their organic pilots trained before the fence comes down. What a logistical nightmare. They need to make sure you guys get your DOH or relative that you are talking about because if they don't, this place will probably collapse!!!

Mix of DOH and relative....I have only one question for you....Does the stuff you are smoking pop on a drug test?
 
scarlet said:
So what do you suggest. You know staple is not going to be the outcome !!

It's going to be fences on 737 too. What crews can
Go intl. What crews have had raft training.

It is going to be mix of DOH and relative seniority.
Which I think is fair. Yes AT 7 yr FO upgrade will not
happen either.

Except for top 800 guys DOH before 1993.
Click to expand...

CRY me a RIVER!LOL!
 
FWIW, from the guys I talk to on the outside looking in, we all think it will be a staple fair and square. Also, I think an arbitrator will see it that way too being that nobody is likely to get furloughed with a staple.

I can also see never combining the lists if it looks like it will be ugly.

Just a view from the cheap seats fwiw.
 
Bob Dylan said:
FWIW, from the guys I talk to on the outside looking in, we all think it will be a staple fair and square. Also, I think an arbitrator will see it that way too being that nobody is likely to get furloughed with a staple.

I can also see never combining the lists if it looks like it will be ugly.

Just a view from the cheap seats fwiw.
Click to expand...


Bob, I can't figure out if you're suffering from some sort of comprehension problem, or if you're trying to be funny and failing miserably.

You add nothing to the conversation but the same tired "staple" comment that even the most hard-core SWA guys realize is not going to happen.

So, given the low teeth/tattoo ratio of your posts, let me welcome you to my "ignore list". It's pretty lonely club, it'll be just you and Orangebelly, but you guys will get along well, I'm sure. In a few short weeks, you'll be doing each other's laundry in the toilet and scrubbing each other's back in the shower.

Enjoy! :laugh:
 
Last edited:
12yr AAI captain is $186/hr in 2014.....btw. SWA contract is more but not that much in. 4yrs. Do the SWA guys know the payrates of AAI's new contract? In 4 yrs the pay rates are a lit closer. The new contract is less than we wanted but much better than current, especially in 4 yrs.
 
Funny,
What was it...97% vote to strike, SWA announces it was buying AAI and the you finally get contract? Do you not see what was being played out by your management?

In 4 yrs you'll have been on the SWA contract for a while I would hope.
Click to expand...

Exactly...your management gave you something knowing full well it wouldn't take effect. You'll be operating under a SWA contract, not AAI. We are going to have to work together and we all need to realize how our newly integrated company and it's managers will be playing us...together!

Dolce
 
Dolce said:
Funny,
What was it...97% vote to strike, SWA announces it was buying AAI and the you finally get contract? Do you not see what was being played out by your management?



Exactly...your management gave you something knowing full well it wouldn't take effect. You'll be operating under a SWA contract, not AAI. We are going to have to work together and we all need to realize how our newly integrated company and it's managers will be playing us...together!

Dolce
Click to expand...

Dolce we will not be taking any managers from AT, per CM and MV.
 
funnyman12 said:
12yr AAI captain is $186/hr in 2014.....btw. SWA contract is more but not that much in. 4yrs. Do the SWA guys know the payrates of AAI's new contract? In 4 yrs the pay rates are a lit closer. The new contract is less than we wanted but much better than current, especially in 4 yrs.
Click to expand...

Actually in 2012 if things go well a 12 year capt will be paid 225 per hour at swa. Still got you beat.
 
funnyman12 said:
12yr AAI captain is $186/hr in 2014.....btw. SWA contract is more but not that much in. 4yrs. Do the SWA guys know the payrates of AAI's new contract? In 4 yrs the pay rates are a lit closer. The new contract is less than we wanted but much better than current, especially in 4 yrs.
Click to expand...

Sorry I stand corrected 222.86 per hour for a 12 year capt, and 155.99 per hour for a 12 year fo in 2012. Current 12 year rate are per hour is 210.24 for capt and 147.17 for fo. This all converted from tfp.
 
funnyman12 said:
12yr AAI captain is $186/hr in 2014.....btw. SWA contract is more but not that much in. 4yrs. Do the SWA guys know the payrates of AAI's new contract? In 4 yrs the pay rates are a lit closer. The new contract is less than we wanted but much better than current, especially in 4 yrs.
Click to expand...

This just kills any credibility. For one, lets look at today's rates. 2014 is crystal ball analysis in the airline business. Today, twelve year: Captains, SWA $210 to AT's $162. FOs, SWA $147 to AT's $101. Those are the facts.

And to ignore the magical agreement by your management, days after they sell you out to SWA, is telling of your greed.

I, along with most all of SWA pilots, dislike this purchase of your airline. And this is a great example of our concerns of your character you will be bringing to OUR happy little company.
 
I was simply pointing out that our new contract has closed some of the gap in payrates. Of course SWA guys make a lot more than us, but some of the numbers quoted on here were our old contract. How did my post bring into question my character? Heck I have a kick azz character! :)
 
Vixin, +1. You guys got a contract because it was money in your pockets now before the acquisition. End of. Without this acquisition, you probably would have been on strike. Guys, just accept you just landed a great deal, smile, have a happy life. Quit arguing "your case" because you really don't have one. Whatever the outcome of this sli, you guys will still be smiling.
 
Tex,
I didn't say we were taking their managers...just said our newly integrated company, which will still be SWA and it's managers, will be playing all of us in the future. But come on, you really think they're not trying to protect their people also? What's to become of their management? They need to fight for, and rightfully get relative seniority! All of SWA needs to feel the same pain as we overpaid, underworked pilots. I honestly think some of our VPs need disappear and move backwards in the food chain! It's obvious the "Peter Principle" is not in effect here and some need to go back to provisioning aircraft and chunking bags where their true talents lie!

Dolce
 
What is just plane disappointing is the ungrateful appearance that most AT pilots have on this board. The SWA pilots before you worked very, very hard to get we are today. The largest reason for SWA's success is on the backs of its employees. Our productivity is second to none in the industry. And that productivity is the hard work we have done both on the line, and off.

No matter where seniority may end up, most all the AT pilots are thrilled about this acquisition. And most all the SWA pilots are not. That should tell you the entire story. SWA is acquiring AT for no more than 300 million out of the bank account. That is a fact. The value of this transaction is not what most of the AT pilots on this board are trying to sell the SWA pilots. If it cost SWA 1.4 bil out of the bank account, SWA would have not purchased AT's assets. It is not worth nearly that much.

So any AT pilot trying to push ANYTHING in the neighborhood of relative seniority as fair is going to rub every, and I mean EVERY SWA pilot raw. You guys are potentially walking into a very lucrative SWA job that we earned with SWA. We all put in our dues before we got hired by our respective airlines. But from our perspective, and I feel comfortable speaking for SWA pilots as a whole, we earned the position with SWA. And we don't look at it that way with the AT pilots. No matter what you think or feel, this will not change our minds. It is what it is.

So, any AT pilot who tries to justify their seniority on this board, or any other, is just pissing off the SWA pilots. Wherever the seniority falls, and this is far from a done deal, it will not be because of the opinions on this board. But the opinions on this board are all over the pilot ranks at SWA and there is not ONE pilot I have spoke to that isn't pissed off at those opinions. Even if it is just a few pilots speaking, it is the only voice being heard. And that is not good for the pilots of AT.

If I were you, I would keep my opinions to myself. You are coming to work for us, and not the other way around.

Peace out.
 
CaptAntoineMack said:
What is just plane disappointing is the ungrateful appearance that most AT pilots have on this board. The SWA pilots before you worked very, very hard to get we are today. The largest reason for SWA's success is on the backs of its employees. Our productivity is second to none in the industry. And that productivity is the hard work we have done both on the line, and off.

No matter where seniority may end up, most all the AT pilots are thrilled about this acquisition. And most all the SWA pilots are not. That should tell you the entire story. SWA is acquiring AT for no more than 300 million out of the bank account. That is a fact. The value of this transaction is not what most of the AT pilots on this board are trying to sell the SWA pilots. If it cost SWA 1.4 bil out of the bank account, SWA would have not purchased AT's assets. It is not worth nearly that much.

So any AT pilot trying to push ANYTHING in the neighborhood of relative seniority as fair is going to rub every, and I mean EVERY SWA pilot raw. You guys are potentially walking into a very lucrative SWA job that we earned with SWA. We all put in our dues before we got hired by our respective airlines. But from our perspective, and I feel comfortable speaking for SWA pilots as a whole, we earned the position with SWA. And we don't look at it that way with the AT pilots. No matter what you think or feel, this will not change our minds. It is what it is.

So, any AT pilot who tries to justify their seniority on this board, or any other, is just pissing off the SWA pilots. Wherever the seniority falls, and this is far from a done deal, it will not be because of the opinions on this board. But the opinions on this board are all over the pilot ranks at SWA and there is not ONE pilot I have spoke to that isn't pissed off at those opinions. Even if it is just a few pilots speaking, it is the only voice being heard. And that is not good for the pilots of AT.

If I were you, I would keep my opinions to myself. You are coming to work for us, and not the other way around.

Peace out.
Click to expand...

CaptMack,

Look into a mirror and get over yourself. How do you even put on a polo shirt with a head like that?
SWA has spent several decades undercutting labor rates and acting as the anchor to pilot working renumeration and after one decade of BK's for the rest of the industry you find yourself at the top of the payscale for 737. Then you buy another "upstart" and you lecture them about how they haven't brought any contract improvments to the table. Really?
 
Dolce said:
Tex,
I didn't say we were taking their managers...just said our newly integrated company, which will still be SWA and it's managers, will be playing all of us in the future. But come on, you really think they're not trying to protect their people also? What's to become of their management? They need to fight for, and rightfully get relative seniority! All of SWA needs to feel the same pain as we overpaid, underworked pilots. I honestly think some of our VPs need disappear and move backwards in the food chain! It's obvious the "Peter Principle" is not in effect here and some need to go back to provisioning aircraft and chunking bags where their true talents lie!

Dolce
Click to expand...


Dolce,
I am throwing the BS flag. I do not think you fly for SWA. Nice try.
 
Full of LUV said:
CaptMack,

Look into a mirror and get over yourself. How do you even put on a polo shirt with a head like that?
SWA has spent several decades undercutting labor rates and acting as the anchor to pilot working renumeration and after one decade of BK's for the rest of the industry you find yourself at the top of the payscale for 737. Then you buy another "upstart" and you lecture them about how they haven't brought any contract improvments to the table. Really?
Click to expand...

Case in point.

Clueless. Every SWA pilot are just shaking their heads.

You want the job, and the pilots don't want you here. That is the reality.
 

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