Future Prospects Ahead for Legacy ASA

[goahead]

Nothing but loss of a/c on the ASA side and xjet continuing to grow over the next year.

So with that being said, I'm sure it's a contract/union thing, but why can't we do more of this "new" United Express flying on the ASA side rather than furloughing guys to xjet, retraining the furloughed guys, then retraining and displacing guys at ASA? Seems like a lot of wasted money, which for us at ASA isn't that much of a surprise.

 

[wms]

Nothing but loss of a/c on the ASA side and xjet continuing to grow over the next year.

So with that being said, I'm sure it's a contract/union thing, but why can't we do more of this "new" United Express flying on the ASA side rather than furloughing guys to xjet, retraining the furloughed guys, then retraining and displacing guys at ASA? Seems like a lot of wasted money, which for us at ASA isn't that much of a surprise.

There's no such thing as ASA/Expressjet anymore. You have to change your mindset. We're one company with two types. The TPA includes an agreement that aircraft, etc won't be transferred between the groups until the jcba is complete. New contracts with UAL will be for erjs. I'd say the crj2s are going to go away on the UAL side and the most likely way for CRJ pilots to move to the erj is if it was ADDITIONAL erjs placed onto a new or current CRJ domicile, and then it may be tricky because of the volatile nature of the pilot group right now.

Legally (FAA-wise) its a soc, but as far as the sli and tpa, there are still barriers. Eventually a jcba will be signed and fences will come down, until then we have to be patient and not take things personally.

The company and ALPA need to come out and explain this publicly and clearly.

 

[Speedtape]

Make it 125% for over 85hrs and stretch out longevity pay increases to 30 years. Oh and a B fund. Everyone wins. We get more money for being productive. Company saves money with common use reserves. And our mainline partners gain huge flexibility that will support base stability. The bonus to dual qual is that it removes one more hurdle to One List with Skywest. After seeing these nonstop shuffles, that should be in everyones mind.

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1. Our longevity range is too long now, and if it was stretched, would that mean that you would top out at the same rate as a 777 Captain? Who has 30 years steps? Pay raises are what contract negotiations is for.

2. The B fund will have difficulty surviving negotiations. JA has already said it will not survive. My money is on him.

3. With no or little open time, there is no need to have more flexibility with Reserves. This would just make life worse on Reserve.

4. Our mainline partners gain huge flexibility with base stability? HUH? It want amount to anything significant, and even so, why do we want to make a concession for mainline? What does that get you? The 50 is going away--at least that is what is being advertised.

5. Dual Qual removes one more hurdle to one list with SkyWest? Really? First, with all due respect to SkyWest pilots, what does that yield me or them--a new ID with Super Regional on the front? What is the pot of gold at the end of that rainbow? I am not sure there is one. One list is not on JA's agenda for many reasons, and I am good with that. There is no appreciable difference in pay or benefits, and personally, again with no disrespect to SkyWest pilots, I want Alpa representing me. I have been on both sides of the Union issue, and for the record, my pay and benefits are more protected and long term better with ALPA. That's the one list I want to be on. And yes, the SkyWest pilots benefit some without the full privileges of membership--except for job protection. I'm Ok with that. But giving into Dual Qual for the pipe dream of one list with SkyWest--where's the BEEF? I don't want to fly the 200 again--ever! They can't get rid of them fast enough!

6. The non stop shuffles? Are you talking about the constant change in frequency and cities served? One list want fix that problem. Mainline doles out the flying, and because of the $1B Comair strike, it will always be that way under their Portfolio concept. Interestingly, my buds at mainline complain about the service and frequency issues also because it affects their ability to get better schedules. This is because to some degree, their flying is inter-mingled with the various connection carriers. This will never change because mainline marketing can control capacity better by right-sizing equiplement throughout the week and various seasons of high and low demand, providing better productivity and higher net profits.

In summary, reference Dual Qual, on the CRJ side, our operation is safer operating the aircraft separately. That's why the FAA and our Company implemented separate flying in the first place. The reason SkyWest MGMT has dual qual, is that it keeps all pilots on the lower pay scale and they save money on vacation, sick, and training events by paying out at the lower pay scale. They pay an overide only on actual block flying. In practice, from what I have been told by friends there, there is very little swapping back and forth in day to day line flying.

Skywest pilots, what say you on the above paragraph?

 

[aircombat]

5. Dual Qual removes one more hurdle to one list with SkyWest? Really? First, with all due respect to SkyWest pilots, what does that yield me or them--a new ID with Super Regional on the front? What is the pot of gold at the end of that rainbow? I am not sure there is one. One list is not on JA's agenda for many reasons, and I am good with that. There is no appreciable difference in pay or benefits, and personally, again with no disrespect to SkyWest pilots, I want Alpa representing me. I have been on both sides of the Union issue, and for the record, my pay and benefits are more protected and long term better with ALPA. That's the one list I want to be on. And yes, the SkyWest pilots benefit some without the full privileges of membership--except for job protection. I'm Ok with that. But giving into Dual Qual for the pipe dream of one list with SkyWest--where's the BEEF? I don't want to fly the 200 again--ever! They can't get rid of them fast enough!

If you can’t see the benefits of one list then you really are lost and have been blind to the effects of the whipsaw from years past. I do agree that giving dual qual won’t have any effect on obtaining a merger. That would have to be something that ALPA strongly pushes for, and for selfish reasons that will never happen.

It’s also funny how you talk about more pay with ALPA. That is not the case if you are stuck as an FO at a shrinking ALPA carrier. Combine that with the dues that you have to pay ALPA and you are losing big dollars. Or you could also factor the lost dollars from this whole regional/whipsaw machine that was designed solely to break ALPA, then you are talking about career losing dollars.

The people on this board often mistakenly think that pilot pay is a good judge of an airlines success or demise. In reality a better correlation can be seen between an airlines success and if they have ALPA on property.

 

[JustaNumber]

5. Dual Qual removes one more hurdle to one list with SkyWest? Really? First, with all due respect to SkyWest pilots, what does that yield me or them--a new ID with Super Regional on the front? What is the pot of gold at the end of that rainbow? I am not sure there is one.

Speedtape,
What do you think about the ability to share in some of the growth (and also spread out our furloughing) that always seems to benefit SkyWest?

 

[JustaNumber]

I do agree that giving dual qual won’t have any effect on obtaining a merger. That would have to be something that ALPA strongly pushes for, and for selfish reasons that will never happen.

I think agreeing to dual qual is the one card we have that we could swap for one list. It could happen if we wanted it.

 

[aircombat]

I think agreeing to dual qual is the one card we have that we could swap for one list. It could happen if we wanted it.

possibly, I was saying that we should hold PBS hostage for that very reason and clearly ALPA had no intentions of doing that. I think it's clear that they don't want a merger that could stop their gravy train.

 

[Nevets]

1. Our longevity range is too long now, and if it was stretched, would that mean that you would top out at the same rate as a 777 Captain? Who has 30 years steps? Pay raises are what contract negotiations is for.

2. The B fund will have difficulty surviving negotiations. JA has already said it will not survive. My money is on him.

3. With no or little open time, there is no need to have more flexibility with Reserves. This would just make life worse on Reserve.

4. Our mainline partners gain huge flexibility with base stability? HUH? It want amount to anything significant, and even so, why do we want to make a concession for mainline? What does that get you? The 50 is going away--at least that is what is being advertised.

5. Dual Qual removes one more hurdle to one list with SkyWest? Really? First, with all due respect to SkyWest pilots, what does that yield me or them--a new ID with Super Regional on the front? What is the pot of gold at the end of that rainbow? I am not sure there is one. One list is not on JA's agenda for many reasons, and I am good with that. There is no appreciable difference in pay or benefits, and personally, again with no disrespect to SkyWest pilots, I want Alpa representing me. I have been on both sides of the Union issue, and for the record, my pay and benefits are more protected and long term better with ALPA. That's the one list I want to be on. And yes, the SkyWest pilots benefit some without the full privileges of membership--except for job protection. I'm Ok with that. But giving into Dual Qual for the pipe dream of one list with SkyWest--where's the BEEF? I don't want to fly the 200 again--ever! They can't get rid of them fast enough!

6. The non stop shuffles? Are you talking about the constant change in frequency and cities served? One list want fix that problem. Mainline doles out the flying, and because of the $1B Comair strike, it will always be that way under their Portfolio concept. Interestingly, my buds at mainline complain about the service and frequency issues also because it affects their ability to get better schedules. This is because to some degree, their flying is inter-mingled with the various connection carriers. This will never change because mainline marketing can control capacity better by right-sizing equiplement throughout the week and various seasons of high and low demand, providing better productivity and higher net profits.

In summary, reference Dual Qual, on the CRJ side, our operation is safer operating the aircraft separately. That's why the FAA and our Company implemented separate flying in the first place. The reason SkyWest MGMT has dual qual, is that it keeps all pilots on the lower pay scale and they save money on vacation, sick, and training events by paying out at the lower pay scale. They pay an overide only on actual block flying. In practice, from what I have been told by friends there, there is very little swapping back and forth in day to day line flying.

Skywest pilots, what say you on the above paragraph?

1. Agree
2. Management has already said vacation low will not survive. Is your money on them on that too?
3. What??? Your premise may be wrong anyways. Let me guess. Your not on reserve and it's been a decade or more since you've been on reserve and when you were it was worse so everyone else has to suffer as well?
4. Ya, 50s going away. Good for you since you don't fly one and it's too good for you so you never want to fly one again.
5. We get it. It's all about only you.
6. One list will alleviate a bit of it. One less regional to shuffle.

Last paragraph: your premise is wrong again. Pay has nothing to do with dual qual. There are many airlines that have dual qual on the 757/767 and yet have two separate pay scales. Dual qual is just to decrease training costs. Everything else depends on what you get in negotiations. Skywest pilots don't get to negotiate so they got stuck with their subpar deal that management imposes on them. Anyways, apparently they are safe enough for the FAA along with everyone else who operates those two fleet types along with the 75/76 and DC9/MD80, etc.

Like is said, we get it. You'll throw anything out there and make up false premises to justify why it isn't good when in fact it's just you looking out for no one else than just you and the hell with everyone else.

 

[Varmint]

You are misinformed, Grasshoppa!

Bag transfer has been handled by mainline since 2000. So, yes the blame goes elsewhere.

In it's worse month of on-time performance, ASA was still better than mainline.

FYI, after ASA's purchase in 1999, our management were mainline employees. Performance went down the tubes.

Since Inc. bought ASA several years ago, performance has improved greatly, surpassing the stats of mainline, Thanks to BH and our dedicated flight crews.

So, what's next, Grasshoppa?

I have a bridge for sale.....wanna buy it?

 

[goahead]

There's no such thing as ASA/Expressjet anymore. You have to change your mindset. We're one company with two types. The TPA includes an agreement that aircraft, etc won't be transferred between the groups until the jcba is complete. New contracts with UAL will be for erjs. I'd say the crj2s are going to go away on the UAL side and the most likely way for CRJ pilots to move to the erj is if it was ADDITIONAL erjs placed onto a new or current CRJ domicile, and then it may be tricky because of the volatile nature of the pilot group right now.

Legally (FAA-wise) its a soc, but as far as the sli and tpa, there are still barriers. Eventually a jcba will be signed and fences will come down, until then we have to be patient and not take things personally.

The company and ALPA need to come out and explain this publicly and clearly.

Thanks man, kinda what I thought but you cleared a lot of it up