Furloughs at Delta and Northwest

[tblosser]

With any stressful situation, there's always more that could be done. But that should never take away from the genuinely nice things that were done by a lot of folks.

But as an example, there simply was a lot more financial support from almost every other airline than Delta. We kept track of it. Since American wasn't part of ALPA, they didn't pay an assessment. But we had something like eleven pages of names from contributors from American. And there were like eight pages of contributors from Northwest and United. We had UPS guys who would pick up extra trips and donate the pay from the entire trip to our fund. At the end of the strike, there was less than half a page of donations from Delta pilots.

And obviously nothing was required. But when you factor that in with the fact that your MEC chairman said "F U" when we tried to define struck work, and that we did get heckled by Delta pilots while our guys were walking on the picket lines, it's not too hard to understand why there were hard feelings.

I have no trouble understanding why there are hard feelings between the two groups.

 

[tblosser]

Oh, the MEC's letter may very well have impacted Comair's decision. But I'm 99% convinced that decision came down to the System Chief Pilot. I don't know if he's even still at Comair, but I recall Steve Briner saying he wouldn't hire anybody if they wouldn't resign their number. He mentioned training costs for a guy who was guaranteed to be a short-timer.

We had guys on furlough for over 5 years. Is that a short-timer at Comair?

 

[Bob_Sacamano]

Absolutely not. That company was such a craphole, I'd say 5 years is an eternity. However, when Briner made that statement, surely noone knew how bad things were going to be. I seem to recall 14 months being thrown about as the magic number for Comair getting back what they invested in training a new-hire. Anyone know if that's accurate?

We had guys on furlough for over 5 years. Is that a short-timer at Comair?

 

[Noserider76]

Excellent point. Seems like every time I fly JFK-DTW, ATL-DTW, or ATL-MSP we have a Delta guy riding the jumpseat or sitting in the back. How good of you to look after our best interests and seek to prevent those guys from flooding to "our" bases and affecting "our" quality of life. We absolutely need to fence those guys off of bidding DTW and MSP.

It works both ways, chief, and there's far more Delta guys itching to bid away from ATL and into the Heartland than you care to admit.

No problem at all. I'm all for protecting everyone equally. The last thing we need to do is give the company free reign to move equipment and create more uncertainty in our lives. I'm for fences around your bases and equipment as well. No Delta guy should be able to move into DTW and move you down your list or delay your upgrade during a generous transition period.

 

[Speedbird34]

It is funny to hear how a junior guy think he deserves and is entitled to the world... To say that you would leave DAL if you have to fly a DC9 is disingenuous at best. Are you a pilot? Do you REALLY like flying planes? Your comments show different..

Well JAMBRO this is a free world and we all have choices and expectations. The new breed of pilot getting hired selects where he wants to go fly from a big list of choices from every continent out there. We considered equipment, bases, culture, lifestyle, pay, growth and a few more things. We just do not take whatever is out there.
We also do not just respect the opinion of a guy who is in a major before us because he got there first. We have many of our past first officers flying there years before we get there.
You have your expectations and I have mine. You may be a small minded folk for all I know. To everyone his own. I can choose to leave any company if it changes too much and I realise it does not meet my expectations.
Right now we have new hires who have quit Delta for better prospects in their opinion.
I have seen a 11 year B757 FO quit Northwest. This are all personal choices and have little to do with love of flying.
I will not have a crap job because I love flying. At a stage if we do not do this right we would have guys leave in droves for the better options elsewhere in the world.
My buddy brother makes $18,000 a month with everything paid for housing etc flying captain on a Global express for Exxon in UAE. His wife is a doctor and almost their entire income is saved and tax free in DXB.
They are very young millionaire couple after a few years of employment.
We need to chase that dream here in the USA and stop bickering over flying some old airplanes in a rapidly developing international aviation market.
Instead of seniority is forever and all those slogans.
We should be fighting for excellent work rules and conditions of employment forever.
The last guy at an Airline should be happy to be there or the company is almost worthless in my opinion.
I repeat right now the most junior guy is happy to be at this Delta and it should be that way at the new Delta. Every single pilots wellbeing taken care of.
You do not see a fedex, UPS, Southwest, Emirates, Cathay ,British Airways, Air france, KLM, JAL, South African, Virgin Atlantic etc pilot unhappy with his job because he is at the bottom of the list.
We need to start considering changing our bidding system to one that reduces the advantages of seniority quite a bit and shares the pain. Everyone does a month of reserve. Like the Emirates model where you have five rotating groups. You have your seniority withen the group but each group ends up on top and picks schdules first and then goes to the bottom and rotates its way back up. Everyone does a month of reserve and every pilot starts at $96,000 per annum tax free and gets free housing fully furnish and this does not include perdeim, tax free car loans, free tuition amounting to $11,000 per annum for each kid. It does not include the fact that they had a profit sharing of 3.5(three and a half) months pay last year for every employee.
Guys wake up and smell the roses. That is the competition folks and those are the standards. Even though you may not believe it as you scramble to keep sub standard pilot employment the world is suffering a global shortage of qualified pilots.

 

[ASADFW7]

Uhm is it just me, or if everyone else begins to furlough won't DL and NWA announce furloughs as well. It would follow the same logic regards of the merger. It looks like they are in a tough position being held to their statements of no furloughs in the merger when perhaps they desperately need them as well to reduce costs right now.

 

[Raskal]

Uhm is it just me, or if everyone else begins to furlough won't DL and NWA announce furloughs as well. It would follow the same logic regards of the merger. It looks like they are in a tough position being held to their statements of no furloughs in the merger when perhaps they desperately need them as well to reduce costs right now.

Whoa, easy there Mr. Logic...this conversation is for almost baseless opinions and emotions only! Mod, please do something with this guy...

 

[General Lee]

Uhm is it just me, or if everyone else begins to furlough won't DL and NWA announce furloughs as well. It would follow the same logic regards of the merger. It looks like they are in a tough position being held to their statements of no furloughs in the merger when perhaps they desperately need them as well to reduce costs right now.

What about when you are still getting airplanes? These planes will fuel your INTL expansion to gain some needed revenue, so would you park those? I think there is a perfect storm here. Delta doesn't want to "politically spook" any politicians into thinking that the merger won't work, so they are doing whatever they can to not make waves. Does that mean they won't furlough later? Probably not. But, when it comes around to the Spring and Summer, those are our busiest times. So, if there aren't any announcements by Xmas, then it might be too expensive for DL to furlough and then retrain before our busy seasons. At least that is what it looks like SO FAR. Also, we are getting those new planes (6 777s that need close to 38 pilots each, and 6 737-700s), and the NWA pilots will benefit from our rules when the joint contract is created, and that will necessitate new pilots for them immediately, or atleast provide some sort of cushion I would think....It will be interesting, and fingers crossed...



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ASADFW7]

Gen, I understand. Something still has to give. Time will tell what it is.

 

[~~~^~~~]

ASADFW7:

DAL and NWA came out of bankruptcy staffed about as low as they could go. NWA's pilot shortage made headlines last year and they have not hired many since then.

Some categories at Delta are still very short.

I think we are on the bubble. Right now there are no furloughs planned. If oil trends the direction I expect with the election Delta and NWA both could independently be hiring before the merger. If jet A remains at $170 with the crack spread then we are all in serious trouble.

SWA will have to renew their hedges at some point. Hedges just take the uncertainty out of prices, they don't actually lower the price over the long term.

You made an excellent call, so did the Delta folks. This is going to effect everyone.