Furloughed mainline pilots entitled to left seat of their regional carriers?

[chitownflyer]

As if mainline pilots would ever be willing to help us at the regionals out.

If they should be allowed to "flow back" to the regionals, the regional pilots should be able to "flow up" to mainline. Simple as that.

Don't forget who gave up the scope clause.

 

[PCL_128]

Unless your are getting ready to upgrade

This is about new growth airplanes that wouldn't even be coming if it weren't for mainline shrinking. When UAL released the plans for shrinking the mainline fleet, they simultaneously announced an increase of 10%-12% for UAL Express. You're growing at the expense of mainline, and those planes wouldn't even be coming to you if it weren't for the mainline pilots having to suffer a furlough. You shouldn't be entitled to those upgrade seats until every furloughed mainline pilot is back at mainline. Those left seats should go to the furloughed guys. If you want the upgrade slots on aircraft that aren't new growth, and just from attrition, then go for it. But the new growth aircraft should be crewed by furloughed pilots.

 

[Sonny Crockett]

This is about new growth airplanes that wouldn't even be coming if it weren't for mainline shrinking. When UAL released the plans for shrinking the mainline fleet, they simultaneously announced an increase of 10%-12% for UAL Express. You're growing at the expense of mainline, and those planes wouldn't even be coming to you if it weren't for the mainline pilots having to suffer a furlough. You shouldn't be entitled to those upgrade seats until every furloughed mainline pilot is back at mainline. Those left seats should go to the furloughed guys. If you want the upgrade slots on aircraft that aren't new growth, and just from attrition, then go for it. But the new growth aircraft should be crewed by furloughed pilots.

PCL has got is RIGHT!

I can only speak for UAL, but the 2172 pilots FURLOUGHED the last go around are much more VOCAL about how they are gonna be treated. If UAX "Brand X" does'nt allow our guys some left seat jobs then "Brand X" aint getting the new "Growth Jets"

I am hearing the ERJ-190 tossed around as well, and I am sure you understand that UAL mainline guys would PREFER to fly it rather then Express, and the company would love to let Express have them--we need to navigate this one correctly.

Food for thought....the 737-300 is MUCH more profitable $$$ than ANY 50 seat RJ. Kinda makes you wonder why UAL is parking them (along with 1450 pilots) and growing the RJ fleet.

I am 100% for ONE LIST. I am also for a flow up-or preferential hiring if a JETS-AND-JOBS type deal comes about. We will see.

All you 500 hour wonders need to stop getting your panties in a wad-

I am an ex-United Express guy.

 

[enuffalready]

I am a lifer regional guy and have no desire to move to any mainline operator but the truth is that any pilot gets what he can negotiate. If the mainline guys have leverage and negotiate left seat then so be it. On the other hand, don't be upset when I do my best to get that larger RJ at my airline and am willing to fly for less than a mainline guy. Yes, I would fly an e-190 for $100 an hour as a captain.

 

[Sonny Crockett]

I am a lifer regional guy and have no desire to move to any mainline operator but the truth is that any pilot gets what he can negotiate. If the mainline guys have leverage and negotiate left seat then so be it. On the other hand, don't be upset when I do my best to get that larger RJ at my airline and am willing to fly for less than a mainline guy. Yes, I would fly an e-190 for $100 an hour as a captain.

Management loves you! I agree with most of your post, however not feeling any love over your last sentence. If you want to fly the E-190 for $100 an hour...so be it.

 

[enuffalready]

Management loves you! I agree with most of your post, however not feeling any love over your last sentence. If you want to fly the E-190 for $100 an hour...so be it.

The thing is, I'm not concerned if i make management happy or if I make mainline upset. My point is, if the mainline guys can can negotiate it from themselves, go ahead, I certainly don't begrudge them for negotiating for what benefits them. Just like I will negotiate for what is in my best interest, or more importantly what is in my family's best interest.

 

[JoeMerchant]

The thing is, I'm not concerned if i make management happy or if I make mainline upset. My point is, if the mainline guys can can negotiate it from themselves, go ahead, I certainly don't begrudge them for negotiating for what benefits them. Just like I will negotiate for what is in my best interest, or more importantly what is in my family's best interest.

BINGO!....We have created a system that requires each of us do what is best for us...The other side, or the national union, aren't going to take care of us....We need to take care of ourselves...and the mainline folks need to take care of themselves....

Nothing personal....just business....

Mainline can push for left seats and I can push for larger airplanes....

 

[enuffalready]

PCL has got is RIGHT!

I can only speak for UAL, but the 2172 pilots FURLOUGHED the last go around are much more VOCAL about how they are gonna be treated. If UAX "Brand X" does'nt allow our guys some left seat jobs then "Brand X" aint getting the new "Growth Jets"

I am hearing the ERJ-190 tossed around as well, and I am sure you understand that UAL mainline guys would PREFER to fly it rather then Express, and the company would love to let Express have them--we need to navigate this one correctly.

Food for thought....the 737-300 is MUCH more profitable $$$ than ANY 50 seat RJ. Kinda makes you wonder why UAL is parking them (along with 1450 pilots) and growing the RJ fleet.

I am 100% for ONE LIST. I am also for a flow up-or preferential hiring if a JETS-AND-JOBS type deal comes about. We will see.

All you 500 hour wonders need to stop getting your panties in a wad-

I am an ex-United Express guy.

people keep talking about flow ups/ flow back. NO thanks... other than cargo, what airlines have hired guys in the last 10 years that have not been furloughed for a significant period of time, and those same guys are getting ready to get furloughed again. I feel for those guys.. that Yo Yo has got to be getting old

 

[JoeMerchant]

You mainline folks are going to have a harder time selling your Jets4jobs BS this time around....As you can tell most aren't falling for it this time.....

Where will you place the "growth" RJs if nobody agrees to give up their seniority?

 

[strega7]

When UAL released the plans for shrinking the mainline fleet, they simultaneously announced an increase of 10%-12% for UAL Express. You're growing at the expense of mainline, and those planes wouldn't even be coming to you if it weren't for the mainline pilots having to suffer a furlough.

How much of that 10%-12% is the previously announced replacement of 18 EMB-120's with CRJ 700's at SkyWest? 30 seats to 64 for 18 aircraft has to add up. That order took place last year and deliveries start this fall if I recall correctly. Those 18 CRJ's would not be "growth" aircraft for the pilot group as these are "replacement" airframes for the same sized pilot group. Now, if SkyWest keeps some of the EMB's, then there would be a clear agument that a few of the 700's are "growth" that furloughs may take a swing at those.

 

[Caspian27]

This is about new growth airplanes that wouldn't even be coming if it weren't for mainline shrinking. When UAL released the plans for shrinking the mainline fleet, they simultaneously announced an increase of 10%-12% for UAL Express. You're growing at the expense of mainline, and those planes wouldn't even be coming to you if it weren't for the mainline pilots having to suffer a furlough. You shouldn't be entitled to those upgrade seats until every furloughed mainline pilot is back at mainline. Those left seats should go to the furloughed guys. If you want the upgrade slots on aircraft that aren't new growth, and just from attrition, then go for it. But the new growth aircraft should be crewed by furloughed pilots.

Others may have said it better:

I see your point and feel for the guys that took the risk during this last upswing and left...But it was a RISK to leave and they knew it. Some took a risk and stayed. I just don't agree with giving up left seats out of seniority when those that left knew full-well the risk they were taking.

If the regional was wholly-owned I could see more sense in this; but I still don't think it'd be fair to the guys that stayed. But a completely separate company that contracts for the major...they have no obligation to give up seats out of seniority.

This whole oil situation sucks for everyone.

 

[chitownflyer]

Again, though the regionals may be growing at the expense of mainline, that is NOT the fault AT ALL of regional pilots. We did not "steal" anyone's flying. MAINLINE pilots refused to fly RJs way back when, relegating them to the feeder airlines. MAINLINE management went overboard by continuing to farm out flying to Express.

 

[Max Powers]

just to clarify, I think the push that is going on is for left seat jobs only in growth airplanes that result from mainline shrinking. From what I understand, the push is for the left seat positions, but still be put at the bottom of the seniority list. Therefore nobody bumps anybody.

Except a right seat FO would have no career advancement after sitting in said seat for over 8 years - same poor schlep has probably never cracked even 30 grand.

Please tell me how your moronic logic make sense in regard to fairness. And for the record I'm pilot at a major, in other words for self preservation this would help me but I have a SPINE!!!!

 

[SaturnPilot]

Except a right seat FO would have no career advancement after sitting in said seat for over 8 years - same poor schlep has probably never cracked even 30 grand.

Please tell me how your moronic logic make sense in regard to fairness. And for the record I'm pilot at a major, in other words for self preservation this would help me but I have a SPINE!!!!

hey genius,

try going back to page one of this thread and reading my post where I said I was simply passing on information I heard about this subject, not arguing one side over the other. If your non-moronic logic and your spine could support it, reading comprehension would show you that I was not promoting this.

 

[JoeMerchant]

hey genius,

try going back to page one of this thread and reading my post where I said I was simply passing on information I heard about this subject, not arguing one side over the other. If your non-moronic logic and your spine could support it, reading comprehension would show you that I was not promoting this.

Quit backpeddling Saturn...You are well known as one of the ALPA cheerleaders..along with PCL and Rez...

You jumped in this argument towing the company line regarding mainline pilots getting super-seniority at the regionals...As you can see nobody is buying the BS this downturn....

Take your snake oil and peddle it in Herndon....Someone may buy it up there....