Furloughed mainline pilots entitled to left seat of their regional carriers?

[Smarta$$]

NO F'n way.

 

[bmpilot2003]

You couldn't be more wrong!!!!

The last time UA furloughed, Skywest took some of those guys to the bottom of the seniority list, and UA supplemented their first year pay.

And BTW, if I get furloughed Skywest will be down to about 3 airplanes

United did not supplement their pay, UALPA did.

 

[SSDD]

That's ok too.

 

[Bustin]

I think that's a valid argument by mainline pilots. If... Said regional is owned by them and the seniority of both pilot groups is transferred both ways. That has/will never happen. Therefore, that is total BS. Regionals do CONTRACT work for mainline carriers. Minus a few, that is the only relation they have to that carrier. Just because the regionals share a paint job doesn't give a mainline pilot the right to partial ownership of that company. By that logic, a regional pilot should keep his or her date of hire if they move to a major that shares their paint job.

All that said, I do understand the frustrations of a mainline pilot who spends years flying around RJ's only to get laid off after making an "improvement" to their career. It's no secret this industry is grossly flawed. Just wait until everyone has to start hiring again and the reality of no one wanting to fly anymore resurfaces.

I love to fly, but if I get furloughed, I'm out. Some of us just can't take the financial insecurity. Very sad but it's reality.

 

[Sig]

Well, at Skywest, some of the junior pilots don't have enough PIC/crew time to upgrade, and some guys may elect to stay an FO in the RJ, instead of upgrading in the EMB

Ah, I see. The whole point of this thread (was) zero seniority captains, and I thought your point above was furloughees bringing a little sumpn' sumpn' along.

In your specific case, whatever seat a newhire can hold has no bearing on seniority- it makes a difference with what experience the logbook shows when the bidding for equipment/seats begins... gotcha.

 

[BOX OFFICE]

I keep hearing that mainline pilots are pushing for this to happen but it seems unlikely to me. Anyone else have an opinion or information about this subject?

Compass Airlines.

 

[benbpilot]

just to clarify, I think the push that is going on is for left seat jobs only in growth airplanes that result from mainline shrinking. From what I understand, the push is for the left seat positions, but still be put at the bottom of the seniority list. Therefore nobody bumps anybody.

Unless your are getting ready to upgrade

 

[JumpersAway]

No double standards....if mainline are good enough to be thrown into the left seat of an RJ, then an RJ Captain is good enough to assume a possition on a mainline seniority list.

You want to fix the whole mess- No regionals....ONE LIST. That fixes it. It's never going to happen though, as it's been tried before. Mainline brands it as a "grab at seniority"..........

 

[Metro752]

Sorry to say but the "Mainline" pilots BONED us. Years ago they relaxed the scope which allowed these large FREAKin 86 seat "RJ's" to be operated by contract carriers. I love how they are pissed as us and want the rights to the left seat at their feeders but had they never relaxed the scope we wouldn't even be in this situation. All jets should be mainline... simple as that. I'd much rather be sitting on reserve at a mainline carrier flying the same equipment I'm flying now rather than spending 5-10 years at a "regional" then starting at the bottom of a mainline seniority list. The whole industry is SCREWed... In the years to come, it's gonna end up being a brand of a mainline being flown by numerious contract airlines domestically and the international POOP flown by the core mainline. SCREW that!!! It's all bullDUNG..

WELL SAID! How about it you mainline guys, instead of that, I got mine attitude.

 

[Flyer1015]

Holy Sh!t.................Here we go!

...............and no! Unless I am entitled to a seat at their airline when the tables are turned.

You mean a flowthrough/flowback.

No thanks. Didn't work out to well for Eagle, and I doubt it'll work out for another regional.

 

[chitownflyer]

As if mainline pilots would ever be willing to help us at the regionals out.

If they should be allowed to "flow back" to the regionals, the regional pilots should be able to "flow up" to mainline. Simple as that.

Don't forget who gave up the scope clause.

 

[PCL_128]

Unless your are getting ready to upgrade

This is about new growth airplanes that wouldn't even be coming if it weren't for mainline shrinking. When UAL released the plans for shrinking the mainline fleet, they simultaneously announced an increase of 10%-12% for UAL Express. You're growing at the expense of mainline, and those planes wouldn't even be coming to you if it weren't for the mainline pilots having to suffer a furlough. You shouldn't be entitled to those upgrade seats until every furloughed mainline pilot is back at mainline. Those left seats should go to the furloughed guys. If you want the upgrade slots on aircraft that aren't new growth, and just from attrition, then go for it. But the new growth aircraft should be crewed by furloughed pilots.

 

[Sonny Crockett]

This is about new growth airplanes that wouldn't even be coming if it weren't for mainline shrinking. When UAL released the plans for shrinking the mainline fleet, they simultaneously announced an increase of 10%-12% for UAL Express. You're growing at the expense of mainline, and those planes wouldn't even be coming to you if it weren't for the mainline pilots having to suffer a furlough. You shouldn't be entitled to those upgrade seats until every furloughed mainline pilot is back at mainline. Those left seats should go to the furloughed guys. If you want the upgrade slots on aircraft that aren't new growth, and just from attrition, then go for it. But the new growth aircraft should be crewed by furloughed pilots.

PCL has got is RIGHT!

I can only speak for UAL, but the 2172 pilots FURLOUGHED the last go around are much more VOCAL about how they are gonna be treated. If UAX "Brand X" does'nt allow our guys some left seat jobs then "Brand X" aint getting the new "Growth Jets"

I am hearing the ERJ-190 tossed around as well, and I am sure you understand that UAL mainline guys would PREFER to fly it rather then Express, and the company would love to let Express have them--we need to navigate this one correctly.

Food for thought....the 737-300 is MUCH more profitable $$$ than ANY 50 seat RJ. Kinda makes you wonder why UAL is parking them (along with 1450 pilots) and growing the RJ fleet.

I am 100% for ONE LIST. I am also for a flow up-or preferential hiring if a JETS-AND-JOBS type deal comes about. We will see.

All you 500 hour wonders need to stop getting your panties in a wad-

I am an ex-United Express guy.

 

[enuffalready]

I am a lifer regional guy and have no desire to move to any mainline operator but the truth is that any pilot gets what he can negotiate. If the mainline guys have leverage and negotiate left seat then so be it. On the other hand, don't be upset when I do my best to get that larger RJ at my airline and am willing to fly for less than a mainline guy. Yes, I would fly an e-190 for $100 an hour as a captain.

 

[Sonny Crockett]

I am a lifer regional guy and have no desire to move to any mainline operator but the truth is that any pilot gets what he can negotiate. If the mainline guys have leverage and negotiate left seat then so be it. On the other hand, don't be upset when I do my best to get that larger RJ at my airline and am willing to fly for less than a mainline guy. Yes, I would fly an e-190 for $100 an hour as a captain.

Management loves you! I agree with most of your post, however not feeling any love over your last sentence. If you want to fly the E-190 for $100 an hour...so be it.

 

[enuffalready]

Management loves you! I agree with most of your post, however not feeling any love over your last sentence. If you want to fly the E-190 for $100 an hour...so be it.

The thing is, I'm not concerned if i make management happy or if I make mainline upset. My point is, if the mainline guys can can negotiate it from themselves, go ahead, I certainly don't begrudge them for negotiating for what benefits them. Just like I will negotiate for what is in my best interest, or more importantly what is in my family's best interest.

 

[JoeMerchant]

The thing is, I'm not concerned if i make management happy or if I make mainline upset. My point is, if the mainline guys can can negotiate it from themselves, go ahead, I certainly don't begrudge them for negotiating for what benefits them. Just like I will negotiate for what is in my best interest, or more importantly what is in my family's best interest.

BINGO!....We have created a system that requires each of us do what is best for us...The other side, or the national union, aren't going to take care of us....We need to take care of ourselves...and the mainline folks need to take care of themselves....

Nothing personal....just business....

Mainline can push for left seats and I can push for larger airplanes....

 

[enuffalready]

PCL has got is RIGHT!

I can only speak for UAL, but the 2172 pilots FURLOUGHED the last go around are much more VOCAL about how they are gonna be treated. If UAX "Brand X" does'nt allow our guys some left seat jobs then "Brand X" aint getting the new "Growth Jets"

I am hearing the ERJ-190 tossed around as well, and I am sure you understand that UAL mainline guys would PREFER to fly it rather then Express, and the company would love to let Express have them--we need to navigate this one correctly.

Food for thought....the 737-300 is MUCH more profitable $$$ than ANY 50 seat RJ. Kinda makes you wonder why UAL is parking them (along with 1450 pilots) and growing the RJ fleet.

I am 100% for ONE LIST. I am also for a flow up-or preferential hiring if a JETS-AND-JOBS type deal comes about. We will see.

All you 500 hour wonders need to stop getting your panties in a wad-

I am an ex-United Express guy.

people keep talking about flow ups/ flow back. NO thanks... other than cargo, what airlines have hired guys in the last 10 years that have not been furloughed for a significant period of time, and those same guys are getting ready to get furloughed again. I feel for those guys.. that Yo Yo has got to be getting old

 

[JoeMerchant]

You mainline folks are going to have a harder time selling your Jets4jobs BS this time around....As you can tell most aren't falling for it this time.....

Where will you place the "growth" RJs if nobody agrees to give up their seniority?

 

[strega7]

When UAL released the plans for shrinking the mainline fleet, they simultaneously announced an increase of 10%-12% for UAL Express. You're growing at the expense of mainline, and those planes wouldn't even be coming to you if it weren't for the mainline pilots having to suffer a furlough.

How much of that 10%-12% is the previously announced replacement of 18 EMB-120's with CRJ 700's at SkyWest? 30 seats to 64 for 18 aircraft has to add up. That order took place last year and deliveries start this fall if I recall correctly. Those 18 CRJ's would not be "growth" aircraft for the pilot group as these are "replacement" airframes for the same sized pilot group. Now, if SkyWest keeps some of the EMB's, then there would be a clear agument that a few of the 700's are "growth" that furloughs may take a swing at those.