Furloughed mainline pilots entitled to left seat of their regional carriers?

[MJ42]

And uhhh what are you making????

Okay, just one more PCL quote from yesterday then it'll be time to relax...Hey outtahere, he actually answered your question in another thread about not being able to afford Air Tran stock, another fine example of his BS...

PCL Quote:

I would love to buy, but on this crappy FO pay, I can't afford shares at even $2.

Exposed again for the fraud he spouts!

Now time to relax with my morning coffee.

 

[Airline RC]

Give em my seat....PLEASE !

 

[PCL_128]

Okay, just one more PCL quote from yesterday then it'll be time to relax...Hey outtahere, he actually answered your question in another thread about not being able to afford Air Tran stock, another fine example of his BS...

PCL Quote:

I would love to buy, but on this crappy FO pay, I can't afford shares at even $2.

Exposed again for the fraud he spouts!

Now time to relax with my morning coffee.

No BS. Our CA rates are above average, our FO rates are crap. But then again, so are yours.

 

[JoeMerchant]

No BS. Our CA rates are above average, our FO rates are crap. But then again, so are yours.

They are crap....I can't afford the paycut....

How long do you figure for upgrade?

 

[PCL_128]

They are crap....I can't afford the paycut....

It was a big pay cut for me, too. Ate away most of my savings first year.

How long do you figure for upgrade?

With no growth, I figure seven years, which would place me at a little over eight years from newhire date to upgrade. With some mild growth in a couple of years, I would say five years till upgrade. In any case, a lot longer than originally expected.

 

[JoeMerchant]

With no growth, I figure seven years, which would place me at a little over eight years from newhire date to upgrade. With some mild growth in a couple of years, I would say five years till upgrade. In any case, a lot longer than originally expected.

....and what does an eight year FO realisticly make at Air Tran....?

 

[PCL_128]

....and what does an eight year FO realisticly make at Air Tran....?

Depends on how much you want to fly. For me, not wanting to fly very much, only in the low $70k range. For someone flying 85+ hour lines, somewhere in the high $80k range. If you really want to work hard, you could probably get up into the mid-$90s. In other words, not near enough. Meanwhile, we have Captains making $200k. The payscale is extremely out of proportion.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Not quite true. Most regionals don't require a BA, my interview at PCL was a total joke, 20 minutes bs'ing with the CP. My interview at GIA was 30 minutes and consisted of 1 question, the rest was bs'ing.....and they don't require a degree. My interview at DAL was 2 days, written test, psych test, psych interview, physical and 3rd party background check.

You want a mainline job.......go through the process the rest of us did. In the meantime your job isn't in jeopardy unless the carrier you work for is wholly owned and has a flow up/down agreement already in place. Word is that the JPWA just signed with DAL/NWA has such an agreement with Compass/Mesaba...part of the price of working for a wholly owned. If you work there then you knew about it before you accepted the job, along with the possibility of flowing up....and the danger of flow downs. If you worked at Mesaba before this agreement was in place, then in all likely hood you are a career Mesaba driver and are so senior that any flowdowns will not affect you in any way, shape or form.

And if you want a regional job, answer the question, spend a year 21.00hr, fly to KRAP for the next 3 years, and then upgrade in order. You wanna step to the front of any line, be it Subway, peenuckle, or SKYW then you are not gonna get much sympathy from anyone except your fellow line cutters.
PBR

 

[PBRstreetgang]

I do give GoJet pilots a break that didn't know any better when they took the job. Many of the GoJet noobs have no idea what they're getting themselves into and don't have the slightest clue about the history of GoJet. They obviously get a pass.

No they don't get a "pass" anyone who takes a job and/or starts a career without doing even cursory research is a moron. By your logic a guy who takes a job at a factory where a bunch of people are standing around the gates with signs and yell at them every time they drive onto the property should get a "pass" too. PCL you started your career on the wrong foot and you profess to have seen the light, B.S. you have a history of making bad decisions to further your "career" and use the noob excuse to justify them. You cause more damage to the ALPA/organized cause, with your disjointed rants. You remind me of the militant "born again", AA(alcoholics, not pilots) 12 step reformers who think that they have found the "WAY".
PBR

 

[JoeMerchant]

Depends on how much you want to fly. For me, not wanting to fly very much, only in the low $70k range. For someone flying 85+ hour lines, somewhere in the high $80k range. If you really want to work hard, you could probably get up into the mid-$90s. In other words, not near enough. Meanwhile, we have Captains making $200k. The payscale is extremely out of proportion.

So if I were to "see the light" and decide that I want to become an Air Tran pilot....I could look forward to making about $350K less in the next 8 years.....Then what do I make as a 9th. year captain?

 

[bmpilot2003]

No they don't get a "pass" anyone who takes a job and/or starts a career without doing even cursory research is a moron. By your logic a guy who takes a job at a factory where a bunch of people are standing around the gates with signs and yell at them every time they drive onto the property should get a "pass" too. PCL you started your career on the wrong foot and you profess to have seen the light, B.S. you have a history of making bad decisions to further your "career" and use the noob excuse to justify them. You cause more damage to the ALPA/organized cause, with your disjointed rants. You remind me of the militant "born again", AA(alcoholics, not pilots) 12 step reformers who think that they have found the "WAY".
PBR

PBR... PCL doesn't get it because he PFT'd his way to where he is now. He was the guy who didn't do any cursory research. Funny how he personally gives Go-jets a pass but earlier was saying the UAX carriers were not to be trusted becasue Go-jets name was on the letter. PCL your stance is very vague and quite frankly it appears you are trying to cover your past mistakes with your ALPA front.

 

[ArcticFlier]

Regarding UAX carriers and "flow back" to the left seat

Whose metal is it? UAL? Or MESA? Or SKYW?

Back of the line. You took the risk as did we all. I would expect nothing less if I went to UAL. Why should you be entitled to more?

Arrogance perhaps?

 

[Soverytired]

Here's an idea:

If you lost your job at an ALPA carrier - you go to any regional and have ALPA make up the difference between first and second year FO pay so the furloughee can at least survive/make better cash than unemployment. You start as a bottom-of-the-list FO for bidding purposes.

Or.... if you have a "flow-back" option, you go to the bottom of the list as an FO and get paid years of service from the carrier from which you are coming from. In other words, if you are a 2nd year NWA FO, you go to the bottom of the list for bidding purposes, but make 2nd year FO pay.

But in any case, it's not right for any mainline guy to go back to regionals and displace anyone already there.

It's not a matter of "right" or "wrong".

I always hate it when "major" pilots complain about "they're flying OUR jets". Well, yes and no. The fact is, in most cases those major pilots negotiated to allow scope to take those off the property in exchange for other things . . . and one of those things is FLOWBACK.

Contracted lift companies, and by extension the pilots who agree to fly with them, agreed to this stipulation and enjoy the benefits in times of growth and plenty. Nevertheless, their companies agreed to FLOWBACK as a condition to that growth.

So . . I would agree that airline pilots should get EXACTLY what they negotiated from their carriers; no more, no less. They shouldn't feel the slightest bit of guilt for doing it either. This is something planned out and bargained between the airline, the airline pilot, and the contracted lift company long before the downturn activated a FLOWBACK situation.

Do I feel sympathy for the contracted pilot? Absolutely!!! Of all parties involved, he was probably the only one who never had a seat at the table. But it's in no way "unfair". He chose to work under conditions where he knew this was a possibility, and benefited from the growth and expansion in the good times.

He should also have known going in this could happen, and plan for the eventuality. While I'm sympathetic the angst your post represents, it's really a case of wanting to change the rules after the game has been decided.

As an aside, I assure you, no airline pilot is thrilled at having to go back and having to work at a contracted lift company either.

 

[PCL_128]

So if I were to "see the light" and decide that I want to become an Air Tran pilot....I could look forward to making about $350K less in the next 8 years.....

That depends on what you think will happen to FO rates in the next TA. The FOs here are a slight majority, and a lot of CAs are sticking up for us also, so there wont' be a new contract without big FO pay raises. I estimate another 2 years until a new contract, then the FO rates will be significantly higher, most likely.

Then what do I make as a 9th. year captain?

Again, depends on how much you want to fly. Average would be about $150k. One 8-year CA I flew with showed me his paystub back in December, and he was at $170k for the year, but he always tries to credit at least 90 hours. In the long run, you'd make a lot more here since you're still pretty young, but you would have to suffer in the short term.

 

[imacdog]

SVT, I believe the "flow back" part of regional lift agreements are not as typical as you think they are.

 

[Soverytired]

SVT, I believe the "flow back" part of regional lift agreements are not as typical as you think they are.

I know. They're actually quite rare, very restrictive when they apply, and not that great of a deal for the mainline pilot.

The "flow up" is a far, far better deal for prospective airline pilot hopefuls than the other way around.

Another reason why I find the consternation generated by this topic a bit silly. A much bigger concern should be "if times are so rough that flowback is necessary, will the airline my company provides lift for survive if the airline goes BK and tears up our contract?"