Furloughed mainline pilots entitled to left seat of their regional carriers?

[Captain Morgan]

That's almost the funniest thing I've ever heard. It's definetely up there.

 

[Nevets]

Only if ONE LIST is created.

 

[aussieflyboy]

Unlikely that I'll be getting furloughed, little man. But thanks for the job offer. I'm not interested.

PCL_128 why do you only ever answer half of the questions that are put to you?

you ignore all of the questions/comments about your past, and just answer the other bits... why don't you answer the whole question mate?

 

[flyboyike]

Regional Pilot : You want our jobs?
Mainline Pilot : I think I'm entitled.
Regional Pilot : You want our jobs?
Mainline Pilot : I want the left seat!
Regional Pilot : You can't handle our payrates!

Son, we work at a lift provider that has no work rules, and those work rules have to be flown by men at low pay. Whose gonna do it? You, Mr. Deltoid? You, Marvin Mainliner? I have more fatigue here than you could possibly fathom. You weep for your gutted CBA, and you curse the regionals. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That my CBA, while tragic, probably provides jobs. And that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, provides jobs. I know deep down in places you don’t talk about on 20 hour layovers, you don't want me on reduced rest, you need me on reduced rest. We use words like carpet dance, ALPA sucks, maybe one day. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent flying fatigued. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a prima donna who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very contract lift I provide, then question the manner in which I provide it. I prefer you said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a turboprop manual and do a real V1 cut. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to!

Mainline Pilot: Did you pay for training?
Regional Pilot : I did the job I was hired to do!
Mainline Pilot: Did you go to Gulfstream International!
Regional Pilot : Your god damn right I did!

I love it.

 

[MJ42]

PCL_128 why do you only ever answer half of the questions that are put to you?

you ignore all of the questions/comments about your past, and just answer the other bits... why don't you answer the whole question mate?

I can answer your question...As I've stated many times, the most vocal posters are usually the ones who don't realize(or are trying to make up for) their past sell out behavior. PCL miraculously has become the moral compass of the industry when he should be looking in the mirror in shame to see the real problem. PFT was, in it's day, a self serving, me first decision. PCL now lectures us, as one of his ALPA battle cries, on how everyone needs to be less selfish and think of the profession instead of personal gain. Too bad he didn't realize this years ago as greedy management sold him on how paying for training would get him a job before the lowly CFI. This decision by PCL was the true definition of the selfishness he now condemns.

Although I don't agree with recent regional hiring practices of a 300 hour wonder, I don't blame these pilots for having an opportunity to skip being a Flight instructor. This is in NO WAY the same as PFT. The pilot shortage was created by the growth of regionals to a level that never should have happened but was allowed to happen from decisions made by pilots several years ago.

This does not mean I, as a mainline pilot, can waltz into the left seat of a regional. We took a risk hoping for a reward, if furloughed we must accept the pain as well. It's just the vicious cycle we have become accustom to, we are our own worst enemy because of our love of aviation.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL_128 why do you only ever answer half of the questions that are put to you?

you ignore all of the questions/comments about your past, and just answer the other bits... why don't you answer the whole question mate?

I've answered those questions so many times in my time on this board that I'm tired of answering them. If you'd like to read my answers, search the old posts.

And MJ42, I didn't skip CFIing.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

PCL has admitted GIA was a mistake... who better to speak against GIA?

 

[MJ42]

I've answered those questions so many times in my time on this board that I'm tired of answering them. If you'd like to read my answers, search the old posts.

And MJ42, I didn't skip CFIing.

Big deal, you still made the selfish decision to PFT. Can't justify your past selfishness by portraying a "holier than thou" attitude now!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

PCL has admitted GIA was a mistake... who better to speak against GIA?

Big deal, you still made the selfish decision to PFT. Can't justify your past selfishness by portraying a "holier than thou" attitude now!

Hold on.... give the guy credit on the fact that he now says it was a poor decision... He isn't justifying anything....

Not too many people agree they made poor choices...

 

[MJ42]

PCL has admitted GIA was a mistake... who better to speak against GIA?A non-PFT'er!

And the mentor chimes in! Seems your protege got knocked down off his moral high horse. I figured you'd chime in to defend him.

 

[MJ42]

Hold on.... give the guy credit on the fact that he now says it was a poor decision... He isn't justifying anything.... I don't feel like doing a search, but in what thread did he say it was a poor decision?

Not too many people agree to poor choices...

Does that give him the right to now lecture others?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

And the mentor chimes in! Seems your protege got knocked down off his moral high horse. I figured you'd chime in to defend him.

Actually, most people give more attention to those who have expereinced than those who don't.

For example... Al Haynes is a great commentator on CRM and accidents...

Why would we give more credence from someone who has never experienced an event over someone who has...

Defend? The guy has no hesitation to defend himself.. this isn't about him... rather you...

On the fact that he has admited GIA was a mistake.. give the guy credit.... it is rare that someone has... and to chide him over and over is lacking...

 

[MJ42]

Actually, most people give more attention to those who have expereinced than those who don't.Great spin!

For example... Al Haynes is a great commentator on CRM and accidents...PCL is no AL Haynes! No comparison!!!

Why would we give more credence from someone who has never experienced an event over someone who has...Justification of a sell out!

Defend? The guy has no hesitation to defend himself.. this isn't about him... rather you...Me? I just brought PCL's true colors to light...others can decide their own opinions about his moral enlightening!

On the fact that he has admited GIA was a mistake.. give the guy credit.... it is rare that someone has... and to chide him over and over is lacking...you mean like he chides over and over in his morality rants?

Again, where did he mention it was a mistake? In one of his morality lectures in an FI post?

 

[ifly4u]

Regional Pilot : You want our jobs?
Mainline Pilot : I think I'm entitled.
Regional Pilot : You want our jobs?
Mainline Pilot : I want the left seat!
Regional Pilot : You can't handle our payrates!

Son, we work at a lift provider that has no work rules, and those work rules have to be flown by men at low pay. Whose gonna do it? You, Mr. Deltoid? You, Marvin Mainliner? I have more fatigue here than you could possibly fathom. You weep for your gutted CBA, and you curse the regionals. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That my CBA, while tragic, probably provides jobs. And that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, provides jobs. I know deep down in places you don’t talk about on 20 hour layovers, you don't want me on reduced rest, you need me on reduced rest. We use words like carpet dance, ALPA sucks, maybe one day. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent flying fatigued. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a prima donna who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very contract lift I provide, then question the manner in which I provide it. I prefer you said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a turboprop manual and do a real V1 cut. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to!

Mainline Pilot: Did you pay for training?
Regional Pilot : I did the job I was hired to do!
Mainline Pilot: Did you go to Gulfstream International!
Regional Pilot : Your god damn right I did!

Dude that post should be framed! The best part is it's completely accurate. :laugh:

 

[Goose Egg]

I think it's so funny that all mainline pilots assume that all regional pilots want to move to the mainline, because the mainline pilots assume that a job at a mainline is supposedly the only job in aviation worth having.

It just doesn't work that way for many of us at the regionals, that's all. So you can keep your flow-throughs. In my albiet short flying career, I've never seen a flow-through operate as anything but a flow-back. No thanks.

As to the questions of mainline pilots getting seats in "growth" airplanes, I suppose to allow something like that would be in the interest of fairness. However, I know that regional pilots would never receive the same kind of consideration in return, and it appears as nothing but an attempt to exercise the "what's mine is mine and what's yours is also mine" modus operandi, so I'd never support it. Furloughees should go to the back of the line. Risk/reward, as someone said earlier. This discussion is a prime example that a sense of entitlement is by no means limited to 23 year old FOs.

And for the record, if I'm furloughed, I'm done with the airlines. I'll hopefully be done in a few years as it is! I'm working for the only airline I'll ever work for. I have ZERO interest in working at a major. Ok, maybe 0.01 interest... but that's pretty close to zero.

-Goose

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Again, where did he mention it was a mistake? In one of his morality lectures in an FI post?

Now you need it "special delivery?"

I don't think you have the skillset to recognize without spite or sarcasm that soley on this issue of PCL recognizing that GIA was a mistake...and let it be....

Prove me wrong..

 

[imacdog]

Actions speak louder than words.

Went to PFT camp, now it's "don't PFT"

Went to crap hole regional, now it's "don't go to this crap hole regional"

Biggest ALPA kool aid drinker here besides Rez and Occam, joins a non-ALPA airline.

go figure.

See my signature at the bottom? Some people should take this to heart when they open their mouth.

 

[PCL_128]

Again, where did he mention it was a mistake?

I've said so on many occasions on this message board. But if you don't want to look back, then I'll say it again here: PFTing at GIA was a mistake, and PFT harms the profession. I didn't know any better at the time, being a noob.

 

[Flyerdan]

I've said so on many occasions on this message board. But if you don't want to look back, then I'll say it again here: PFTing at GIA was a mistake, and PFT harms the profession. I didn't know any better at the time, being a noob.

Seems clear to me and if they still insist on giving you a hard time they must be blind and dumb as well.

Seems there are too many people willing to keep bashing someone who maybe went about it the wrong way to get their foot in the door of this flying career. I guess I would like to ask them what they are doing to reach back and help someone get their foot in the door the right way.

 

[MJ42]

Now you need it "special delivery?"

I don't think you have the skillset to recognize without spite or sarcasm that soley on this issue of PCL recognizing that GIA was a mistake...and let it be....

Prove me wrong..

I recognize what both you and PCL post on here every day. You both preach to us on everything from ALPA, the state of the industry, politics, religion and many other issues. If anyone disagrees with your view you hammer them with crap on why they are wrong. You both come from the same mold, your views are right and whoever disagrees is just stupid.

I can think for myself and don't need you to tell me how to correct ALPA(I am an ALPA supporter), who to vote for, or call me out on my religious beliefs.

There are lots of different opinions on this board, I respect these opinions even if I don't agree. You both carry it to a level above and beyond the rest. You have a intolerable disrespect for anyone else's opinion. I actually think it's funny, you both seem to get enraged when someone disagrees.

Go review some of your recent posts, see if you have the skillset to recognize a opinionated jackass who alway thinks they're right. If not then just go to the closest mirror.

You do provide valuable information, too bad it gets lost in your harsh and opinionated views that you beat to death. However, with all due respect, you both are the epitome of spite and sarcasm. You two would make great dictators!

Maybe someday you two will learn not to throw rocks in glass houses. Your martyrdom is pathetic!

 

[MJ42]

Seems clear to me and if they still insist on giving you a hard time they must be blind and dumb as well.Go review some of the past posts from Rez and PCL, all they do is bash people who don't agree with them! PCL isn't even ALPA.

Seems there are too many people willing to keep bashing someone who maybe went about it the wrong way to get their foot in the door of this flying career. I guess I would like to ask them what they are doing to reach back and help someone get their foot in the door the right way.

I'm PM you what I have done over my 15 years of flying if you like.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I recognize what both you and PCL post on here every day.

Not true.

You both preach to us on everything from ALPA, the state of the industry, politics, religion and many other issues.

Wrong again...

However, liken this example... if you don't like Playboy.. why do you keep reading it...

If anyone disagrees with your view you hammer them with crap on why they are wrong. You both come from the same mold, your views are right and whoever disagrees is just stupid.

My views are this... tell me where you disagee.

I believe as career pilots we don't take enough responsibility in out careers. As Americans I think we reject democracy when it comes to participating in our unions.

I think as pilots we claim victim status and blame others for our situation. I think we don't participate in elections then complain how the elected leaders perform.

What don't you agree with...

I can think for myself and don't need you to tell me how to correct ALPA(I am an ALPA supporter), who to vote for, or call me out on my religious beliefs.

I don't care who you vote for.... just vote. The voting participation rates in both our unions and gov't by the people/members are weak... agree or disagree?

As for religion... what have I posted on religion?

There are lots of different opinions on this board, I respect these opinions even if I don't agree. You both carry it to a level above and beyond the rest. You have a intolerable disrespect for anyone else's opinion. I actually think it's funny, you both seem to get enraged when someone disagrees.

I disagree with apathy and those who refuse to participate in democracy yet whine and complain about the leaders they were too apathetic to vote for...

Go review some of your recent posts, see if you have the skillset to recognize a opinionated jackass who alway thinks they're right. If not then just go to the closest mirror.

Am I right or wrong:

Americans have a duty and responsibility to participate in elections. Americans should honor those who have sacrificed their lives so that we may live in the greatest democratic country in worlds history.

Americans take for granted democracy, self government and self reliance.

You do provide valuable information, too bad it gets lost in your harsh and opinionated views that you beat to death. However, with all due respect, you both are the epitome of spite and sarcasm. You two would make great dictators!

Nope... All I suggest is people participate in democracy. That is what I argue about. If you read my post you will see lash out harshly at those who whine and cry about victim status, who refuse to accept responsibility and claim entitlements... all while demanding other serve them... it is quite disgusting...

Agree or disagree?

Maybe someday you two will learn not to throw rocks in glass houses. Your martyrdom is pathetic!

I participate in every election I can. I petition my gov't and union leaders. How am I being hypocritical? In addition, I critique others behavior and attitudes. Personal attacks are rare.

I knew you couldn't acknowledge PCL admitting he made a mistake... too bad for you...

 

[MJ42]

Not true. Ah yes, the literal game.







Wrong again...

However, liken this example... if you don't like Playboy.. why do you keep reading it...Nice backhanded attempt at sarcasm, but when it comes to naked women, I prefer my girlfriend.




My views are this... tell me where you disagee.

I believe as career pilots we don't take enough responsibility in out careers. As Americans I think we reject democracy when it comes to participating in our unions. Agree!

I think as pilots we claim victim status and blame others for our situation. I think we don't participate in elections then complain how the elected leaders perform.Don't you mean...American society instead of "as pilots". Victim mentality is the new American way. Whatever happen to personal responsibility?

What don't you agree with...



I don't care who you vote for.... just vote. The voting participation rates in both our unions and gov't by the people/members are weak... agree or disagree? Review your post history...

As for religion... what have I posted on religion?Again, review your post history...



I disagree with apathy and those who refuse to participate in democracy yet whine and complain about the leaders they were too apathetic to vote for...Agree, but as I said, you have more than an opinion. You bash all who don't agree!



Am I right or wrong:

Americans have a duty and responsibility to participate in elections. Americans should honor those who have sacrificed their lives so that we may live in the greatest democratic country in worlds history.100% true!

Americans take for granted democracy, self government and self reliance.Again, 100% true. I said you have valuable contributions, you just proved me right. At least these two above didn't get lost in a bull headed sarcastic follow up!



Nope... All I suggest is people participate in democracy. That is what I argue about. If you read my post you will see lash out harshly at those who whine and cry about victim status, who refuse to accept responsibility and claim entitlements... all while demanding other serve them... it is quite disgusting...

Agree or disagree?



I participate in every election I can. I petition my gov't and union leaders. How am I being hypocritical? In addition, I critique others behavior and attitudes. Personal attacks are rare.

I knew you couldn't acknowledge PCL admitting he made a mistake... too bad for you...Good for him, we all make mistakes. Yet he continues to blast away at others who made mistakes as well! Reference: his post history(too many to list).

Oh Rez...I did a search of your posts. Although you sound diplomatic in your response here, many of your other posts tell a much different story. Most of what you just said above is BS rhetoric that is not supported by researching your past posts. Spin away...

 

[MJ42]

Seems clear to me and if they still insist on giving you a hard time they must be blind and dumb as well.

Seems there are too many people willing to keep bashing someone who maybe went about it the wrong way to get their foot in the door of this flying career. I guess I would like to ask them what they are doing to reach back and help someone get their foot in the door the right way.

Here is one example of PCL's hypocrisy(a post today by PCL on the UAL jumpseat thread in majors section):

PCL Quote:

Then apparently TSA pilots actually have a brain. Not a wise fight to pick. And why in God's name did your MECs actually work together with the GoJet group and sign a joint letter with them? I would be ashamed to have my pilot group listed along with them on a signed letter.



Using your logic, Flyerdan, should PCL give Gojet pilots a break? After all, all they did was go about getting their job the wrong way, simple mistake...right? Forgive and forget, right? How's that worse then PFT? I'd say it's on par! Maybe PCL can guide these Gojet pilots to the "light". Then maybe someday PCL CAN be proud to sign a letter with a Gojet pilot.

 

[PCL_128]

Using your logic, Flyerdan, should PCL give Gojet pilots a break.

I do give GoJet pilots a break that didn't know any better when they took the job. Many of the GoJet noobs have no idea what they're getting themselves into and don't have the slightest clue about the history of GoJet. They obviously get a pass.

 

[MJ42]

I do give GoJet pilots a break that didn't know any better when they took the job. Many of the GoJet noobs have no idea what they're getting themselves into and don't have the slightest clue about the history of GoJet. They obviously get a pass.

How thoughtful and righteous of you! Setting the moral standard again, eh? Cast your next stone, my friend...


Same thread, later post, more PCL hypocrisy:

PCL Quote:

I would say that the ones lacking integrity are the pilots standing shoulder to shoulder with GoJet pilots.

Sounds like you're giving them such a pass, huh?

Nothing better then to use your words to prove my points! You've been exposed again!

 

[PCL_128]

How thoughtful and righteous of you! Setting the moral standard again, eh? Cast your next stone, my friend...


Same thread, later post, more PCL hypocrisy:

PCL Quote:

I would say that the ones lacking integrity are the pilots standing shoulder to shoulder with GoJet pilots.

Sounds like you're giving them such a pass, huh?

Nothing better then to use your words to prove my points! You've been exposed again!

The majority of GoJet pilots aren't newbies who didn't know better. Many of them are original TSA who stabbed their fellow pilots in the back by starting up GoJet in the first place. Still others are pilots who were experienced in the industry, knew about GoJet's history, and decided to ignore it just so they could get their street Captain position in a "big" RJ. Because of that, the GoJet pilot group as a collective group should not be legitimized until the issues are settled between TSA and GoJet.

 

[MJ42]

The majority of GoJet pilots aren't newbies who didn't know better. Many of them are original TSA who stabbed their fellow pilots in the back by starting up GoJet in the first place. Still others are pilots who were experienced in the industry, knew about GoJet's history, and decided to ignore it just so they could get their street Captain position in a "big" RJ. Because of that, the GoJet pilot group as a collective group should not be legitimized until the issues are settled between TSA and GoJet.

So then...tell me where you fit into the mix. You're not TSA, not Gojets and not ALPA. Yet you feel compelled to bash away, hypocrite!

Keep digging your hole, you're doing a fine job!

 

[PCL_128]

So then...tell me where you fit into the mix. You're not TSA, not Gojets and not ALPA. Yet you feel compelled to bash away, hypocrite!

This is a public forum. Anyone can post on any topic that they choose. If you want only your pilots to post on a given topic, then keep it on internal message boards. Anything posted here is open to discussion by "outsiders." That's the whole purpose of a public forum.

 

[MJ42]

This is a public forum. Anyone can post on any topic that they choose. If you want only your pilots to post on a given topic, then keep it on internal message boards. Anything posted here is open to discussion by "outsiders." That's the whole purpose of a public forum.

And if they don't agree with you then it's okay for you to bash away, right? You seem to have bashing people's opinion perfected! Funny how you can't handle your own medicine, keep crying :bawling: ...sissy! :laugh: