Furloughed mainline pilots entitled to left seat of their regional carriers?

[Soverytired]

What if some of us like working for "contracted lift" companies? I don't want to go anywhere else. I wish I could start and retire in a turboprop like guys in the 80's because that's what I am into. It's not my fault that mainline was too good to fly a 37-50 seat jet. They don't want them, we got'em. Just as it was said before, don't be so condicending. You assume everybody wants a mainline job when maybe they don't. Maybe they need the time to go corporate or to a fractional and you can get a job quicker at a regional than practically anywhere else.

CM

It was not my intent to be condescending. In point of fact, I would have written much the same as you 5 years into my first regional "airline" job as you have. Why not stay? Why not retire here? Big fish in a small pond and all that, and heck, the money was more than good enough for me.

Make no mistake: the difference between an actual airline and a contract lift provider is HUGE. I'm not talking salary, or work rules, or unions, etc. I'm talking about long term job security and viability. A contracted lift company cannot determine its own destiny, really.

Its only as good as its next contract, which are highly competitive and tend to restrict long term profitability at the expense of short-term security. In exchange, they have to agree to things that are not good for you, the pilot. They might have a guarnteed profit (short term), but will never truly make big $$$ . . . so neither will you, either $$-wise or QOL-wise. A real airline might not want your services in the future (likely in today's market ), or they might impose conditions that are grossly unfair to the line pilot (flow-back).

Contract lift is what it is. But generally speaking, its not a very good place to plan on hanging ones hat for the next 25 years.

Nor would I hesitate to "flow-back" if the need arose. In this instance, your company agreed as terms of said contract to accept this. It is a benefit negotiated (dictated to?) by an actual airline to a contracted party. It was done for the benefit of a career airline pilot, not a short-term contracted pilot. It sucks for the contract pilot, but he knew (or should have known) going in that this was what he was getting into.

 

[PCL_128]

It was not my intent to be condescending. In point of fact, I would have written much the same as you 5 years into my first regional "airline" job as you have. Why not stay? Why not retire here? Big fish in a small pond and all that, and heck, the money was more than good enough for me.

Make no mistake: the difference between an actual airline and a contract lift provider is HUGE. I'm not talking salary, or work rules, or unions, etc. I'm talking about long term job security and viability. A contracted lift company cannot determine its own destiny, really.

Its only as good as its next contract, which are highly competitive and tend to restrict long term profitability at the expense of short-term security. In exchange, they have to agree to things that are not good for you, the pilot. They might have a guarnteed profit (short term), but will never truly make big $$$ . . . so neither will you, either $$-wise or QOL-wise. A real airline might not want your services in the future (likely in today's market ), or they might impose conditions that are grossly unfair to the line pilot (flow-back).

Contract lift is what it is. But generally speaking, its not a very good place to plan on hanging ones hat for the next 25 years.

Nor would I hesitate to "flow-back" if the need arose. In this instance, your company agreed as terms of said contract to accept this. It is a benefit negotiated (dictated to?) by an actual airline to a contracted party. It was done for the benefit of a career airline pilot, not a short-term contracted pilot. It sucks for the contract pilot, but he knew (or should have known) going in that this was what he was getting into.

Well said!

 

[Sonny Crockett]

It was not my intent to be condescending. In point of fact, I would have written much the same as you 5 years into my first regional "airline" job as you have. Why not stay? Why not retire here? Big fish in a small pond and all that, and heck, the money was more than good enough for me.

Make no mistake: the difference between an actual airline and a contract lift provider is HUGE. I'm not talking salary, or work rules, or unions, etc. I'm talking about long term job security and viability. A contracted lift company cannot determine its own destiny, really.

Its only as good as its next contract, which are highly competitive and tend to restrict long term profitability at the expense of short-term security. In exchange, they have to agree to things that are not good for you, the pilot. They might have a guarnteed profit (short term), but will never truly make big $$$ . . . so neither will you, either $$-wise or QOL-wise. A real airline might not want your services in the future (likely in today's market ), or they might impose conditions that are grossly unfair to the line pilot (flow-back).

Contract lift is what it is. But generally speaking, its not a very good place to plan on hanging ones hat for the next 25 years.

Nor would I hesitate to "flow-back" if the need arose. In this instance, your company agreed as terms of said contract to accept this. It is a benefit negotiated (dictated to?) by an actual airline to a contracted party. It was done for the benefit of a career airline pilot, not a short-term contracted pilot. It sucks for the contract pilot, but he knew (or should have known) going in that this was what he was getting into.

SPOT ON!

 

[buscap]

Ya know...

I've always liked the way things have stood here at ASA. We've never had a flow up or flow down. Everyone who wanted to make a move up or down, did so at the mercy of seniority. And we always treated Dl furloughs as well as we could.

I have flown with DL furloughs as my Capatin and then as my FO. No problem. Every single one of them were grateful for the job and benefits at ASA. A job which their pilot group repeatedly negotiated off Delta property.

I just don't see a need to skull-screw the seniortiy system we have all come to 'love".

 

[Captain Morgan]

It was not my intent to be condescending. In point of fact, I would have written much the same as you 5 years into my first regional "airline" job as you have. Why not stay? Why not retire here? Big fish in a small pond and all that, and heck, the money was more than good enough for me.

Make no mistake: the difference between an actual airline and a contract lift provider is HUGE. I'm not talking salary, or work rules, or unions, etc. I'm talking about long term job security and viability. A contracted lift company cannot determine its own destiny, really.

Its only as good as its next contract, which are highly competitive and tend to restrict long term profitability at the expense of short-term security. In exchange, they have to agree to things that are not good for you, the pilot. They might have a guarnteed profit (short term), but will never truly make big $$$ . . . so neither will you, either $$-wise or QOL-wise. A real airline might not want your services in the future (likely in today's market ), or they might impose conditions that are grossly unfair to the line pilot (flow-back).

Contract lift is what it is. But generally speaking, its not a very good place to plan on hanging ones hat for the next 25 years.

Nor would I hesitate to "flow-back" if the need arose. In this instance, your company agreed as terms of said contract to accept this. It is a benefit negotiated (dictated to?) by an actual airline to a contracted party. It was done for the benefit of a career airline pilot, not a short-term contracted pilot. It sucks for the contract pilot, but he knew (or should have known) going in that this was what he was getting into.

I'll buy that for a dollar. However what I was referring to was that there are people who like flying the smaller aircraft on shorter legs to podunk airports. I am one of these people and I know it's hard to believe but I grew up around these airplanes and airports and the majors and larger aircraft just don't appeal to me all that much. I live a modest life that I'm happy with and in my little corner of the world. I'm not trying to belittle everyone for going to a major or anything like that. I can certainly appreciate the zeal for moving up the career ladder. But for some of us our favorite thing is piloting a B1900 or Brasilia or ERJ and we accept everything that goes with it. I just interjected my thought into this topic because it seems everyone thinks that everyone wants to go fly a 737 and above. Not always the case. I do wish luck to those that want it though. Good luck to us all in whatever we want!

 

[PCL_128]

I'll buy that for a dollar. However what I was referring to was that there are people who like flying the smaller aircraft on shorter legs to podunk airports. I am one of these people and I know it's hard to believe but I grew up around these airplanes and airports and the majors and larger aircraft just don't appeal to me all that much. I live a modest life that I'm happy with and in my little corner of the world. I'm not trying to belittle everyone for going to a major or anything like that. I can certainly appreciate the zeal for moving up the career ladder. But for some of us our favorite thing is piloting a B1900 or Brasilia or ERJ and we accept everything that goes with it. I just interjected my thought into this topic because it seems everyone thinks that everyone wants to go fly a 737 and above. Not always the case. I do wish luck to those that want it though. Good luck to us all in whatever we want!

I have no problem with guys like you. My problem is with guys like JoeyMerchant who want to stay at the regionals, but aren't happy just flying small airplanes to small airports. They want to steal the big airplanes from the majors. If it was up to Joey, ASA would be able to "bid" on Delta's 767 flying and start flying to Paris as a contractor.

 

[outtahere]

Thats alright pcl when Airtranny fourloughs your high and mighty ass we will let you come to work at ASA! You will probably be in for quite a shock when you open your dumbass mouth and get a boot shoved up your ass, but you will learn. There is nobody getting left seats at ASA, I don't care if we grow by 100 planes at Delta pilots expence. You want a job, apply and good luck. If you want the left seat you will have to try and convince our MEC and the rest of the membership that it is good for them. Good luck with that!! PCL you are a PFT scumbag that found ALPA religion and now want all of your prior sins forgiven. Well sorry for your luck, but this ain't church and you will always be a PFT scumbag!!!!

 

[PCL_128]

Thats alright pcl when Airtranny fourloughs your high and mighty ass we will let you come to work at ASA! You will probably be in for quite a shock when you open your dumbass mouth and get a boot shoved up your ass, but you will learn. There is nobody getting left seats at ASA, I don't care if we grow by 100 planes at Delta pilots expence. You want a job, apply and good luck. If you want the left seat you will have to try and convince our MEC and the rest of the membership that it is good for them. Good luck with that!! PCL you are a PFT scumbag that found ALPA religion and now want all of your prior sins forgiven. Well sorry for your luck, but this ain't church and you will always be a PFT scumbag!!!!

Unlikely that I'll be getting furloughed, little man. But thanks for the job offer. I'm not interested.

 

[MJ42]

Unlikely that I'll be getting furloughed, little man. But thanks for the job offer. I'm not interested.

I don't blame you, who wants to make a lateral move?

 

[outtahere]

Well here's to hoping, you sound like you could use a good sound dose of reallity. MJ42, that was good!

 

[PCL_128]

I don't blame you, who wants to make a lateral move?

NWA DC-9 driver, huh?

12 year AirTran 717 (DC-9) CA - $153/hr
12 year NWA DC-9 CA - $126/hr

If you'd like to move up the ladder, you can always apply here. :laugh:

 

[MJ42]

NWA DC-9 driver, huh?

12 year AirTran 717 (DC-9) CA - $153/hr
12 year NWA DC-9 CA - $126/hr

If you'd like to move up the ladder, you can always apply here. :laugh:

Hired there...turned it down.

Just wait....we'll see who laughs at the new joint payscale.

BTW what's that come out to per hour when you subtract your PFT?

 

[PCL_128]

Just wait....we'll see who laughs at the new joint payscale.

Already seen it: $145/hr. Still $8/hr less. :laugh:

 

[MJ42]

Already seen it: $145/hr. Still $8/hr less. :laugh:

You've seen wrong...if you have access to it then tell me what it is on: 1/1/09, 1/1/10, 1/1/11, 1/1/12?

 

[PCL_128]

You've seen wrong...if you have access to it then tell me what it is on: 1/1/09, 1/1/10, 1/1/11, 1/1/12?

Don't have the numbers past 1/1/09 in front of me. I believe it was 4% increases, if I remember right.

 

[MJ42]

Don't have the numbers past 1/1/09 in front of me. I believe it was 4% increases, if I remember right.

Exactly! :laugh:

 

[Freight Dog]

Here's an idea:

If you lost your job at an ALPA carrier - you go to any regional and have ALPA make up the difference between first and second year FO pay so the furloughee can at least survive/make better cash than unemployment. You start as a bottom-of-the-list FO for bidding purposes.

Or.... if you have a "flow-back" option, you go to the bottom of the list as an FO and get paid years of service from the carrier from which you are coming from. In other words, if you are a 2nd year NWA FO, you go to the bottom of the list for bidding purposes, but make 2nd year FO pay.

But in any case, it's not right for any mainline guy to go back to regionals and displace anyone already there.

 

[outtahere]

NWA DC-9 driver, huh?

12 year AirTran 717 (DC-9) CA - $153/hr
12 year NWA DC-9 CA - $126/hr

If you'd like to move up the ladder, you can always apply here. :laugh:

And uhhh what are you making????

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Regional Pilot : You want our jobs?
Mainline Pilot : I think I'm entitled.
Regional Pilot : You want our jobs?
Mainline Pilot : I want the left seat!
Regional Pilot : You can't handle our payrates!

Son, we work at a lift provider that has no work rules, and those work rules have to be flown by men at low pay. Whose gonna do it? You, Mr. Deltoid? You, Marvin Mainliner? I have more fatigue here than you could possibly fathom. You weep for your gutted CBA, and you curse the regionals. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That my CBA, while tragic, probably provides jobs. And that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, provides jobs. I know deep down in places you don’t talk about on 20 hour layovers, you don't want me on reduced rest, you need me on reduced rest. We use words like carpet dance, ALPA sucks, maybe one day. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent flying fatigued. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a prima donna who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very contract lift I provide, then question the manner in which I provide it. I prefer you said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a turboprop manual and do a real V1 cut. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to!

Mainline Pilot: Did you pay for training?
Regional Pilot : I did the job I was hired to do!
Mainline Pilot: Did you go to Gulfstream International!
Regional Pilot : Your god damn right I did!

 

[centralpilot]

Regional Pilot : You want our jobs?
Mainline Pilot : I think I'm entitled.
Regional Pilot : You want our jobs?
Mainline Pilot : I want the left seat!
Regional Pilot : You can't handle our payrates!

Son, we work at a lift provider that has no work rules, and those work rules have to be flown by men at low pay. Whose gonna do it? You, Mr. Deltoid? You, Marvin Mainliner? I have more fatigue here than you could possibly fathom. You weep for your gutted CBA, and you curse the regionals. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That my CBA, while tragic, probably provides jobs. And that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, provides jobs. I know deep down in places you don’t talk about on 20 hour layovers, you don't want me on reduced rest, you need me on reduced rest. We use words like carpet dance, ALPA sucks, maybe one day. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent flying fatigued. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a prima donna who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very contract lift I provide, then question the manner in which I provide it. I prefer you said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a turboprop manual and do a real V1 cut. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to!

Mainline Pilot: Did you pay for training?
Regional Pilot : I did the job I was hired to do!
Mainline Pilot: Did you go to Gulfstream International!
Regional Pilot : Your god damn right I did!

Nice! :laugh: