Frontier votes are in!!!! The pilots vote.....

[Dizel8]

Yes, the game is rigged. That's exactly why all pilots need to vote pro-labor in November. Time to rig the system in our favor.

Hate to tell you, but there is no pro labor! Now, there is pandering to labor, but if their lips are moving, they are lying.

The second probelm you run into, is the fact that you are not who Obama and Clinton are talking about,you know, the hard working middle class. It isn't you, it is the guy making 25K a year working in construction or manufacturing, but not you!

Now, they are both proposing spending lots on money on all kinds of beatiful programs, stuff that people want, socialized healthcare, better SS benefits, more money to medicare/medicaid. Yet, there is no money for it, both SS and Medicaid is up the proverbial creek, broke, done, over, cannot be saved. At this point you might as well realize, that when it is time for you to retire, you will not get anything, at the very best, you can hope it becomes means based, meaning if you were absolutely, positively broke, you might get something, but it will not be much.

As for McCain, his view on pilots is well known, we are unpatriotic slime, who needs to understand that the "corporation" come before making a decent living.
I have no doubt, that this view apllies to all who actually works for a living, and in particular, unionized labor. "How dare they!"

As for the war on terror, McCain is going to stay he course, O and H is going to look like deer blinded in the headlights of an oncoming freight train. Neither is what the american people want. The Dems last time ran on a platform of ending the war, bringing troops home, Pelosi was yelling this at the top of her lungs, yet, has anything been accomplished?

No one, and I truly believe, no one on the "hill" has any clue as to how to solve this mess and if they do, they know, that it involves things that are so unpopular, that they would be voted out of office next time around.

The US is broke. Now, I think this is the most amazing country on this planet, but it is broke, not just financially, but leadership wise as well. Not just GW, but all off them. We need someone with a real vision, someone who is willing to face the hard truth, someone who doesn't promise more for less, but truly tells it like it is. Someone like Mr.Smith goes to Washington. That isn't going to happen, by the time a politician takes office, he/she is bought and paid for by special interest groups, who are looking to profit, who wants something in return.

The commom man might elect them, but the common man didn't buy them, hence, in the grand scheme of things,he really isn't that important.

Case in point, we are essentially broke, yet the freewheeling spending continues:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/congress_iraq_funding

 

[FL_Jumpseat]

But y'all voted in the arbitration provision to begin with, and arbitration always cuts the baby in half. A bad idea that ALPA national never liked.

As has been proven at UA, US, DL, NW, etc, in BK you no longer have leverage. If you don't cough up, you get 1113ed. If you cough up, you still might get 1113ed. When was the last time airline labor fared well under an 1113? Never. To top it off, the 1113 doesn't exempt you from the provisions of the RLA, so it's illegal to walk out. The game is rigged, for those that haven't noticed.

And for what it's worth this pay cut is for FOUR MONTHS and it snaps back. We've proven we can play ball, it's up to management to keep them in the air. If we don't have real financing on the table in a couple weeks this will all be a moot point anyway.


Cardinal <- unionist, hardliner, but in touch with reality.

Airtran pilots are participating in something called MEDIATION, not ARBITRATION. Thank God, Arbitration is not something addressed in the contract we are operating under.

Ask the Alaska pilots to explain the difference to you.

 

[PCL_128]

Hate to tell you, but there is no pro labor! Now, there is pandering to labor, but if their lips are moving, they are lying.

Their actions over the years have proven otherwise. Ask Occam how Clinton's chief counsel, Bruce Lindsey, helped them out in '98. Ask ALPA Leg Affairs about how easy it was for them to speak directly to President Clinton. The phone line was cut the day Bush came into office. This Administration refuses to even acknowledge ALPA's existence, while the previous administration went out of their way to help.

The second probelm you run into, is the fact that you are not who Obama and Clinton are talking about,you know, the hard working middle class. It isn't you, it is the guy making 25K a year working in construction or manufacturing, but not you!

Not the case at all. Organized labor is organized labor. They get their contributions from labor, so they do what they can for organized labor in order to keep the campaign contributions coming in.

Vote Obama in November.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Funny, I could have sworn y'all were in contract negotiaions, did you vote in a new, better paying contract. I must have missed it!

Hate to rain on your revisionist parade, Dizel, but the ALK pilots' pay cut was a result of arbitration.

Contract negotiations are currently underway and the Company's first pay offer was insulting.

Alaska pilots responded by over 400 of them picketing the annual shareholder's meeting, promising to strike if the Company doesn't come up with a better offer.

As you know, this is the FIRST time Alaska pilots have negotiated a contract unconstrained by a no-strike clause.

While it may take a couple more years before we are released for self-help, you can be assured that ALK has radicalized their pilot group to the point where a strike is virtually inevitable. Best estimate...summer of 2010 Alaska pilots will hit the bricks.

So, if you want to spew disinformation, please leave Alaska OUT of your diatribes.

 

[F9 Buff]

Every nickel you gave back will go to the management....congrats guys!!!

Again, if management has no personal financial reason to stay and right the ship, what is there to keep them from moving on to another company that is more stable?

They don't have a seniority list to worry about, they can move jobs without having to start at the bottom of another company's list.

You lose the people at the GO and F9 is done the second they give their notice.

Pilots (and aviation employees in general) need to figure out a way to gain that benifit. If you don't like the company you are working with or the base you got stuck in, then you should be able to move to another airline without having to give up your pay that your experience commands.

 

[PCL_128]

Honestly, who cares if they leave? They've obviously led the company into bankruptcy, so paying them more to keep them around is completely illogical. This would be like giving a pilot a bonus after his incompetence causes him to crash an airplane. Only in management circles does it make sense to pay someone more who has royally screwed up.

 

[ReverseSensing]

Honestly, who cares if they leave? They've obviously led the company into bankruptcy, so paying them more to keep them around is completely illogical. This would be like giving a pilot a bonus after his incompetence causes him to crash an airplane. Only in management circles does it make sense to pay someone more who has royally screwed up.

Well put.

 

[F9 Buff]

Don't get me wrong, I get what you guys are saying and totally see where you are coming from... Only problem is, it just does not work that way.

They leave and F9 is toast and I don't think there are too many bright people out there that are willing to jump on a sinking ship.

 

[CitationUltra]

Again, if management has no personal financial reason to stay and right the ship, what is there to keep them from moving on to another company that is more stable?

If they were any good, they'd do that anyway.

 

[Ih8AFYesmen]

The F9 pilots did what we all would have done, don't kid yourselves, look at the evidence. The big U started it, UAUA followed, AMR, DAL, NWA, ALK etc. all joined.

I think it is unfair to blame the F9 pilots for anything, they, like the rest of us, are holding on for dear life, can you blame them, would you truly have done differently? If you say yes, in 98% percent of the cases, you are full of horse manure. Internet bravado and all that!

FYI, ALK did not vote for a pay cut. It was jammed down, up, whatever, by binding arbitration.

 

[USMC319]

Honestly, who cares if they leave? They've obviously led the company into bankruptcy, so paying them more to keep them around is completely illogical. This would be like giving a pilot a bonus after his incompetence causes him to crash an airplane. Only in management circles does it make sense to pay someone more who has royally screwed up.

Although that might be a popular stance to have without any knowledge, it is absolutely NOT true in this case. The management team that got F9 into the place they are currently in is long gone. The current CEO is considered by many to be one of the few shining stars in this industry and is commited to making it work. The question really is: did he get to F9 too late to fix the financials? Well..., odds are...but we will see very soon.

I don't mean to throw the old management under the bus, because they created one of the best airlines in the industry from an operations and customer service standpoint, but they were in way over their heads in the big financial equation. My $.02

 

[Dizel8]

FYI, ALK did not vote for a pay cut. It was jammed down, up, whatever, by binding arbitration.

And how on earth did you wind up with binding arbitration?

Taking that route takes away any leverage the group has!

The Frontier pilots gave it, but as someone else said, it would likely have been taken away anyway.

Listen, people make their own choices, I just felt that the F9 pilots were unjustly singled out in this instance. If I stepped on some AK toes with mentioning the paycut forced upon y'all, my apologies.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Because it was part of the no-strike clause in our contract that had been in force for 20 years.

Just get your story straight and all's forgiven.