Frontier reaches TA with pilots

[lowecur]

LOL! Yeah right....

Lets see.... you are supposedly not a Pilot, you just watched airplanes take off and land as a kid, yet live the majority of your entire waking life parked on the internet on several Airline Pilot forums posting nonstop..... accumulating almost 2000 posts on Flightinfo alone. It's great entertainment, just look at the moronic responses I get.


Its obvious to anyone with 1/2 a brain that you are in fact an Airline Pilot.... No, I'm not. you are just too much of a psycho coward to admit it. OK. Probably because you live in a fantasy world.... wait.... no probably.... you DO live in a fantasy world by living online..... with a 'masked' identity no less. No I thinks its simply because you are spineless. Do you have trouble making choices in life? Stop vascillating and pick an answer.

Let me guess... based on all your emotion involving Jetblue or Delta you're a Pilot for one or the other? You must be psychic. My guess is Delta. $100.00 bucks says you are not only a Pilot, but have another name that you post under as well..... like General Lee OR FlyDeltasJets, or with another 1000+ posts to their credit. :smash: SWA/FO.

Good thing you sell insurance on the side.... as much as you live here on the internet, you'd need a second income (especially if you are a 190 Captain at Jetblue)...:laugh: Actually, I sell it while sitting on my backside.

Oh well.... go back to your 'pretending to just love airplanes' mantra and keep hiding your background and pontificating You stole that word from me on all things Jetblue and Delta..... you are still a moron.

Hey Angus, Where's the Beef? Now go back and chew your cud.

imp:​

 

[myq2u]

Lowecur - tx 4 your reply, sounds fair enough to me!

 

[regionaltard]

I know that for guys that work at Frontier, a new TA might have positives and negatives and some guys may be happy with it and some might think it is gonna stink and differing views is part of life. I am a guy that has been trying to get on with Frontier for a long time now and I have to keep believing /hoping that I will get an interview at some point in time. I would be happy to work for Frontier, new TA or not.

Thanks for posting that. I was starting to worry that the seemingly endless supply of morons wanting into the industry was beginning to dry up.

 

[StaySeated]

TA has been distributed. Before everyone starts the rediculous bashing again I would like to extend my appreciation to the entire NC and Union Leadership. It is obvious that a lot of time and effort has been sacrificed to get to this point. The road shows are going to be interesting.

For the record I am voting no solely due to the fact that I still have to wear my hat!

 

[ualdriver]

TA has been distributed. Before everyone starts the rediculous bashing again I would like to extend my appreciation to the entire NC and Union Leadership. It is obvious that a lot of time and effort has been sacrificed to get to this point. The road shows are going to be interesting.

For the record I am voting no solely due to the fact that I still have to wear my hat!

Care to post the details of the TA?

 

[Toobdrvr]

I hope not...

I personally think we should keep this to ourslves at LEAST until it officially becomes our contract. After all, this is a competitive industry and we may not want to share what may be considred proprietary info.

Sure, at some point it will all come out anyway. But until then, I think we should limit it to those on a "need to know", READ the TA, then vote yea or nay.

...just my $.02...

 

[ualdriver]

I personally think we should keep this to ourslves at LEAST until it officially becomes our contract. After all, this is a competitive industry and we may not want to share what may be considred proprietary info.

Sure, at some point it will all come out anyway. But until then, I think we should limit it to those on a "need to know", READ the TA, then vote yea or nay.

...just my $.02...

Is it that bad?

 

[Lowpayisgreat]

F9 forcast

I bet in 3 years F9 will be bought due to money problems. This is just the beginning. But in the mean time this will help push the salaries down. Look and history and what happened to Frontier #1 and see the same mistakes being made.

 

[PCL_128]

I personally think we should keep this to ourslves at LEAST until it officially becomes our contract. After all, this is a competitive industry and we may not want to share what may be considred proprietary info.

Sure, at some point it will all come out anyway. But until then, I think we should limit it to those on a "need to know", READ the TA, then vote yea or nay.

...just my $.02...

Wow, you're a manager's wet dream.

 

[Shrek]

I bet in 3 years F9 will be bought due to money problems. This is just the beginning. But in the mean time this will help push the salaries down. Look and history and what happened to Frontier #1 and see the same mistakes being made.

I truly hope that won't happen (for many reasons)........but in this industry - who knows

 

[Green]

Why won't anybody post the details? Is it that bad? You guys don't want to be taking a pay hit right as everyone else is negotiating a payraise....

 

[ferlo]

I personally think we should keep this to ourslves at LEAST until it officially becomes our contract. After all, this is a competitive industry and we may not want to share what may be considred proprietary info.

Sure, at some point it will all come out anyway. But until then, I think we should limit it to those on a "need to know", READ the TA, then vote yea or nay.

...just my $.02...

Proprietary info? WTF?! info like, how much vacation time you get...what order you'd be furloughed incase it happens? Whatever dude. If you don't get at least a 3% per year raise, you are loosing money. 3% allows you to pay for the standard of living you have now. Haven't we gone backward enough? Vote NO!!

 

[ferlo]

The B-scale will look great to you for about six months - then you'll be PO'ed, wondering how that situation came about. You'll need only to go to the mirror for the answer.

PIPE

That hits the nail on the head...except one thing. B Scales last a minimum of 5 years. I guess if his family doesn't need the money, managment will be happy to pocket it for him.

 

[Lowpayisgreat]

WOW Senior union guys sold out everyone elsa

Jeff Thomas, Mr. High School Grad with no other skill sets, made a B scale to save his. Who would have thought. Does anyone read the history books or have a clue. Your union leaders need to be both Junior and Senior guys. What a bunch of idiots. Good luck. I think every FO should give 20% of their pay to the captains, they deserve it, because they are smarter then you.

 

[F9 Driver]

Jeff Thomas, Mr. High School Grad with no other skill sets, made a B scale to save his. Who would have thought. Does anyone read the history books or have a clue. Your union leaders need to be both Junior and Senior guys. What a bunch of idiots. Good luck. I think every FO should give 20% of their pay to the captains, they deserve it, because they are smarter then you.

Once again TP you've made an A$$ of yourself in public! STFU. Go back to your unit, wait for another interview chance with fed-ex or SWA, and hope they forgot what a tool you are. Don't worry about what is going on back here in the world. Thanks for offering to enlighten us with all your knowledge, but I think we'll be just fine.

Thomas didn't act alone. There were junior guys represented on the negotiating committee.

FYI - Under the TA:

The FOs on property don't take ANY hit. Fourth year FOs are only bested by SWA ,AA (MD-80) ,DAL(737-800) ,and NWA(A320) ,AND they'll get a retirement they don't have now.

The new 1st year FO rate puts F9 right in the middle of the pack of our major competitors. I'm not crazy about lowering it, but it is currently the highest in the pax industy, and FAPA doesn't represent pilots who haven't been hired yet.

The "B scale" you are talking about will go away in a little over one year when the pay frozen captains meet back up with the reduced scale.

The reduced scale still puts year six captain's pay ahead of NWA(A320),AWA(All),Air Tran,UAL(A320/319),Jet Blue,Spirit,UsAirways(319),ATA,and Midwest.

Our top captain's pay is only exceeded by SWA.

Per diem goes up to meet or exceed all but SWA and UsAir by 18 months after signing.

The retirement (401k % + DC %) meets or exceeds SWA, AA, ALK, UsAir, NWA(?), ATA, AirTran, Spirit, and Midwest.

 

[AAflyer]

Once again TP you've made an A$$ of yourself in public! STFU. Go back to your unit, wait for another interview chance with fed-ex or SWA, and hope they forgot what a tool you are. Don't worry about what is going on back here in the world. Thanks for offering to enlighten us with all your knowledge, but I think we'll be just fine.

Thomas didn't act alone. There were junior guys represented on the negotiating committee.

FYI - Under the TA:

The FOs on property don't take ANY hit. Fourth year FOs are only bested by SWA ,AA (MD-80) ,DAL(737-800) ,and NWA(A320) ,AND they'll get a retirement they don't have now.

The new 1st year FO rate puts F9 right in the middle of the pack of our major competitors. I'm not crazy about lowering it, but it is currently the highest in the pax industy, and FAPA doesn't represent pilots who haven't been hired yet.

The "B scale" you are talking about will go away in a little over one year when the pay frozen captains meet back up with the reduced scale.

The reduced scale still puts year six captain's pay ahead of NWA(A320),AWA(All),Air Tran,UAL(A320/319),Jet Blue,Spirit,UsAirways(319),ATA,and Midwest.

Our top captain's pay is only exceeded by SWA.

Per diem goes up to meet or exceed all but SWA and UsAir by 18 months after signing.

The retirement (401k % + DC %) meets or exceeds SWA, AA, ALK, UsAir, NWA(?), ATA, AirTran, Spirit, and Midwest.

No, I don't think your retirement trumps my A and B fund. We did not get rid of it, nor have we filed for BK.

AAflyer (Still very intact, and very well funded DB plan)

 

[StaySeated]

Who is Everyone?

Why won't anybody post the details? Is it that bad? You guys don't want to be taking a pay hit right as everyone else is negotiating a payraise....

The contract language is more important than the pay rates in my opinion. With that being said, who is "everyone else" considering...

American contract is amendable in may 2008. Frontier's current and TA rates are lower than AA in both seats compared to their narrow body rates.

Continental contract is amendable in Dec. 2008. Frontier current and TA rates are higher than Continental's FO rates and higher than Continentals CA rates in most years compared to Continental's Small Narrow body rates.

DAL contract is amendable in Jan. 2010. Frontier current and TA rates are Lower in the right seat (but pretty close) than DAL's narrow body rates and higher in the CA seat compared to the MD88 and Lower than DAL's 737NG.

Northwest contract is amendable in Dec. 2011. Frontier current and TA rates are higher in the CA seat compared to NWA's A320 rate and very similiar to NWA's FO rate.

United contract is amendable May 2009. Frontier current and TA rates are higher in both seats compared to UAL's A320 rate.

USAIR/AWA are amendable in Dec 2009 and Jan 2007 respectively. Who knows what is going to happen with these contracts but, Frontiers current and TA rates are higher than USAirways in both seats and higher than AWA in both seats compared to their A320 rates.

NOT one legacy has even started Section 6 openers, and Frontier's current and TA rates are right in the middle or above everyone.

On to the LCC's...

Airtran is in negotiations. Frontier's current and TA rates are higher than Airtran's FO rates. Frontier's current CA rates are higher than Airtrans captain rates, and the TA rates are higher up until year 10, I think.

Alaska contract is amendable in May 2007. Frontier's current and TA rates are the same as Alaska's in the FO seat. The captain seat is currently higher than Alaska and the TA rates are slightly lower in some years.

Aloha contract is amendable in April 2009. Frontiers curent and TA rates are higher in both seats.

Hawaiin contract is amendable in June 2007. Frontiers current and TA rates are higher in the FO seat and the current CA rate is higher than Hawaiin. The CA TA rate is slighly lower in some years.

Jetblue has no contract, and they have to clean the cabin!!Just kidding. The Frontier current and TA rates are higher in both seats.

Midwest contract is amendable in 2008, not sure of the month. The Frontier current and TA rates are higher in both seats. Midex goes out 16 years so the highest end is higher than Frontier but we don't have a 16 year rate.

SWA is in negotiations. Frontiers current and TA are a lot lower than SWA's.

So, when you include the LCC's, we have a grand total of two airlines in negotiations. Frontier's current and TA rates are higher or very similiar to every airline mentioned above with the usual exception to every rule in aviation.

I have not reviewed the entire TA yet, but I have read some items that I like a lot and some that I am not excited about. I am quite surprised, but then again this is flighinfo, by the amount of excitement this has generated. How can you get so positive or negative when you have no information whatsoever regarding the TA?

 

[F9 Driver]

No, I don't think your retirement trumps my A and B fund. We did not get rid of it, nor have we filed for BK.

AAflyer (Still very intact, and very well funded DB plan)

Sorry - My bad. I was comparing apples to apples, and should have stated as much by saying something like (401K% + DC%)

 

[AAflyer]

Sorry - My bad. I was comparing apples to apples, and should have stated as much by saying something like (401K% + DC%)

No Problem. It certainly isn't peachy over here, but i am still happy to have a pension for the time being.

Good Luck to you guys,

AA

 

[AAflyer]

The contract language is more important than the pay rates in my opinion. With that being said, who is "everyone else" considering...

American contract is amendable in may 2008. Frontier's current and TA rates are lower than AA in both seats compared to their narrow body rates.

Continental contract is amendable in Dec. 2008. Frontier current and TA rates are higher than Continental's FO rates and higher than Continentals CA rates in most years compared to Continental's Small Narrow body rates.

DAL contract is amendable in Jan. 2010. Frontier current and TA rates are Lower in the right seat (but pretty close) than DAL's narrow body rates and higher in the CA seat compared to the MD88 and Lower than DAL's 737NG.

Northwest contract is amendable in Dec. 2011. Frontier current and TA rates are higher in the CA seat compared to NWA's A320 rate and very similiar to NWA's FO rate.

United contract is amendable May 2009. Frontier current and TA rates are higher in both seats compared to UAL's A320 rate.

USAIR/AWA are amendable in Dec 2009 and Jan 2007 respectively. Who knows what is going to happen with these contracts but, Frontiers current and TA rates are higher than USAirways in both seats and higher than AWA in both seats compared to their A320 rates.

NOT one legacy has even started Section 6 openers, and Frontier's current and TA rates are right in the middle or above everyone.

On to the LCC's...

Airtran is in negotiations. Frontier's current and TA rates are higher than Airtran's FO rates. Frontier's current CA rates are higher than Airtrans captain rates, and the TA rates are higher up until year 10, I think.

Alaska contract is amendable in May 2007. Frontier's current and TA rates are the same as Alaska's in the FO seat. The captain seat is currently higher than Alaska and the TA rates are slightly lower in some years.

Aloha contract is amendable in April 2009. Frontiers curent and TA rates are higher in both seats.

Hawaiin contract is amendable in June 2007. Frontiers current and TA rates are higher in the FO seat and the current CA rate is higher than Hawaiin. The CA TA rate is slighly lower in some years.

Jetblue has no contract, and they have to clean the cabin!!Just kidding. The Frontier current and TA rates are higher in both seats.

Midwest contract is amendable in 2008, not sure of the month. The Frontier current and TA rates are higher in both seats. Midex goes out 16 years so the highest end is higher than Frontier but we don't have a 16 year rate.

SWA is in negotiations. Frontiers current and TA are a lot lower than SWA's.

So, when you include the LCC's, we have a grand total of two airlines in negotiations. Frontier's current and TA rates are higher or very similiar to every airline mentioned above with the usual exception to every rule in aviation.

I have not reviewed the entire TA yet, but I have read some items that I like a lot and some that I am not excited about. I am quite surprised, but then again this is flighinfo, by the amount of excitement this has generated. How can you get so positive or negative when you have no information whatsoever regarding the TA?

While it is ammendable in 2008, AMR opened early on us in 2006 (as allowed by either side.) With some resolve we are hoping to get a better contract by the end of 2007, or early 2008.

Two things currenly in our favor.

1. Our industry is rebounding and oil is still going down.

2. AMR will NOT want to be negotiating with ALL 3 labor groups in the spring of 2008.

AAflyer