Frontier files chapter 11

[Floatplane]

Iron City, that is why so many choose to stay private instead of going public.

 

[IronCityBlue]

Iron City, that is why so many choose to stay private instead of going public.

Totally understand that. The stock market is going through the same irresponsibile, unchecked free for all our legal system is going through. Both will come to an end, but will likely require a complete meltdown as a political catalyst for change first. When it finally happens, the pendulim will most likely swing way too far in the other direction, and the irresponsibile players will squeal the loudest of course. Oh well. The status quo is unsustainable so even severe change is inevitable and in many ways desireable.

 

[maxblast72]

Has management said they want any concessions from labor?

Does Frontier expect to be able to change lease payments on some airplanes during bankruptcy? I guess it might be kind of tough to get a reduction in lease payments on narrowbody Airbus as the worldwide market (outside the US) is pretty strong for newer fuel efficient airplanes.

 

[climb2slow]

As of right now, all communications from the company and the union are that our CBA will not be altered in this 11 process. I would like that believe that will stay the case, but as we all know, in 11, sometimes the judge makes decisions that the management may not have chosen.

 

[njcapt]

As of right now, all communications from the company and the union are that our CBA will not be altered in this 11 process. I would like that believe that will stay the case, but as we all know, in 11, sometimes the judge makes decisions that the management may not have chosen.

Hhhmmm. That's not really how it works. F9 management will probably make a motion to modify your CBA via a 1113e petition for short term relief, then really stick it to you with a 1113c. Given the composition of courts these days, the Judge will ultimately grant the motion - unless the F9 pilots negotiate something else with the company prior to the ruling. Expect them not to negotiate very vigorously, they know they hold all the cards.

I hate to break it to you, but management WILL stick it to you. There is absolutely no reason for them not to. In fact, they would be excoriated by the creditors committee if they left pilot wages and work rules on the table. If you think the pilot group would be willing to strike over the change to status quo, you can pretty much forget that, too. The ATA pilots choked on the strike vote when it was our turn to stand up, or we might have challenged the porking of our CBA. Good thing we didn't. When the NWA Flight Attendants declared a strike over changes to their status quo while under a 1113c motion the Bankruptcy Judge slapped an injunction on them, prohibiting them from self help.

Can't harm the 'entity' after all. You do not matter.

 

[climb2slow]

I'm fully aware of the proceedings and how things work. I was only stating that up to this point, the company has stated that they have no desire to touch our CBA. They maintain that this Chapter 11 is different than others, and they have no intention of working through the process on the backs of the employees. Do I believe them? No, but thats what they are saying. Anyhow, you are right, I don't think our pilot group would strike.

 

[CitationUltra]

I'm fully aware of the proceedings and how things work. I was only stating that up to this point, the company has stated that they have no desire to touch our CBA. They maintain that this Chapter 11 is different than others, and they have no intention of working through the process on the backs of the employees. Do I believe them? No, but thats what they are saying. Anyhow, you are right, I don't think our pilot group would strike.

How is this Chap. 11 "different that others?"

 

[climb2slow]

Beats me! I think what they mean is that our hand was forced by the Credit processor. We had over 130 million in cash plus another 35-40 million coming in from terminated aircraft. Had the processor not screwed our liquidity, we had (according to them) plenty of cash to continue for a while. In my opinion, the writing was on the wall though..you can't keep losing money with high oil prices and expect to not eventually end up in BK.

 

[Cardinal]

The FAPA contract isn't exactly choking the golden goose. Hourly rates are respectable, but fairly fluid work rules and a pilot group with minimal longevity mean F9 sees some of the lowest cockpit costs/block hour. Scope is downright generous. There's not much fat to trim, even assuming that was the plan.

I'm a "full pay to the last day" guy, but I fear such militancy is few and far between among those with an employee number less than 5000.

 

[CitationUltra]

Beats me! I think what they mean is that our hand was forced by the Credit processor. We had over 130 million in cash plus another 35-40 million coming in from terminated aircraft. Had the processor not screwed our liquidity, we had (according to them) plenty of cash to continue for a while. In my opinion, the writing was on the wall though..you can't keep losing money with high oil prices and expect to not eventually end up in BK.

Nearly all bankruptcies are "forced by the credit processor". Attempts to characterize this one as any different is just an attempt at "spin".