Frontier files chapter 11

[FBN0223]

Too bad F9 isn't ALPA. If anyone has BK experience its ALPA!

No kidding!!! After NWA, DAL, UAL and a few others in last couple of years maybe they've finally figured out how it all works. F9 union guys and gals might want to make a few calls to those who have recently been down that road. In our case at NWA, you'd find out everything not to do.

 

[captain dad]

I am all for unions but not ALPA. In my experience with ALPA (10 years) and knowing their past history, ALPA is good at one thing; takin care of ALPA. My dues got me two large pizzas, a six pack, and two concessionary contracts. Thanks Worthless.

Airlines need a national seniority list. Won't happen but that's what they need.

Just my opinion, I could be right.

Good Luck.

 

[Jet41]

I am all for unions but not ALPA. In my experience with ALPA (10 years) and knowing their past history, ALPA is good at one thing; takin care of ALPA. My dues got me two large pizzas, a six pack, and two concessionary contracts. Thanks Worthless.

Airlines need a national seniority list. Won't happen but that's what they need.

Just my opinion, I could be right.

Good Luck.

Well said

 

[Larcifer]

I am an advocate for increased shareholder rights, especially in bankruptcy. But our overall trading infrastructure needs to be changed to cut out the day trading scum bags with their little preset computers who contribute nothing to society and only suck the blood out of viable companies by forcing them to follow analcysts and chase quarterly numbers. Unless of course the perpetual cycle of liquidation, start up, liquidation is in some way beneficial for our country.

You should join us scumbags it beats relying on this sh**y industry to raise a family. You'd be surprised at how much I contribute to society and those that cannot support themselves.

 

[WSurf]

I am all for unions but not ALPA. In my experience with ALPA (10 years) and knowing their past history, ALPA is good at one thing; takin care of ALPA. My dues got me two large pizzas, a six pack, and two concessionary contracts. Thanks Worthless.

Airlines need a national seniority list. Won't happen but that's what they need.

Just my opinion, I could be right.

Good Luck.

Don't forget about your magazine now!

 

[IronCityBlue]

You should join us scumbags it beats relying on this sh**y industry to raise a family. You'd be surprised at how much I contribute to society and those that cannot support themselves.

Unethical airline CEO's and oil future speculators also, as individuals with their paychecks, contribute to society. But to be in that position in the first place requires a whole lot of pain for a whole lot of other people. Drug dealers buy goods and services with their "earnings" too. Look, congrats on being good ad manipulating the system. I just think the system should be changed to restore integrity to our investment infrastructure rather than hyperspeculative cyber gambeling which is basically what it is today. I would rather see that change come about rationally and in a controlled manner, but quickly and unilateraly with a rapid onset depression will also work I guess. Of course, maybe helicopter Bernake can bail us out with more phony money, and besides, we can always borrow more from China to pay our boiler room oil futures driven energy cost hyper inflation. Oh yeah, that's right, its all India and China. India and China, just keep telling ourselves that.

 

[Cardinal]

Not exactly shocking, but NASDAQ has said "BuhBye."
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/080415/latu096.html?.v=101DENVER,

Frontier Receives Notice of Delisting
April 15 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- On April 11, 2008, Frontier received a Staff Determination Letter from The Nasdaq Stock Market ("Nasdaq") indicating that, as a result of the Company's filing for protection under Chapter 11 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code, Nasdaq has determined that the Company's securities will be delisted from Nasdaq in accordance with the discretionary authority granted to Nasdaq under Marketplace Rules 4300, 4450(f) and IM-4300.

Company does not intend to appeal this determination, and, as a result, trading of the Company's common stock will be suspended at the opening of business on April 22, 2008, and a Form 25-NSE will be filed with the Securities Exchange Commission to remove the Company's securities from listing and registration on Nasdaq.

 

[StaySeated]

This will end the day-trading pot of gold, but it was fun while it lasted. Average volume before bk, around 680,000. After the plunge it was trading at over 25 million shares a day and monday saw a 99% rise in value from .48 to almost $1. Sweet. Helped fund my impending unemployment account.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I am all for unions but not ALPA. In my experience with ALPA (10 years) and knowing their past history, ALPA is good at one thing; takin care of ALPA. My dues got me two large pizzas, a six pack, and two concessionary contracts. Thanks Worthless.

You to! Wow... I just don't blame DW. My negotiating committee and MEC implemented my concessionary LOA's.

Airlines need a national seniority list. Won't happen but that's what they need.

We've been debating a National Seniorty List on other threads... it just doesn't seem workable.

Let me guess... F9 pilots who are not part of ALPA would be on a NSL and they would now get jobs at the New Delta? With Seniority? At UAL or CAL? With seniority?

But you hate ALPA, the most expensive magazine in the world, so lets say the NSL isn't ALPA controlled or managed. Who would manage it? The ATA? Frontier isn't even a member! Zero CapHill presence.

The gov't? FAPA isn't a member of CAPA and has zero CapHill presence.

Just my opinion, I could be right.

but you're not.

Good Luck.

Good luck is right. Hopefully FAPA can get on the Creditors Committe.

Best of luck to all F9 pilots... I hope you land on your feet.

 

[StaySeated]

Hopefully FAPA can get on the debtors committee.

Best of luck to all F9 pilots... I hope you land on your feet.

I believe you meant Creditors Committe and yes, FAPA is a member.

 

[Floatplane]

Iron City, that is why so many choose to stay private instead of going public.

 

[IronCityBlue]

Iron City, that is why so many choose to stay private instead of going public.

Totally understand that. The stock market is going through the same irresponsibile, unchecked free for all our legal system is going through. Both will come to an end, but will likely require a complete meltdown as a political catalyst for change first. When it finally happens, the pendulim will most likely swing way too far in the other direction, and the irresponsibile players will squeal the loudest of course. Oh well. The status quo is unsustainable so even severe change is inevitable and in many ways desireable.

 

[maxblast72]

Has management said they want any concessions from labor?

Does Frontier expect to be able to change lease payments on some airplanes during bankruptcy? I guess it might be kind of tough to get a reduction in lease payments on narrowbody Airbus as the worldwide market (outside the US) is pretty strong for newer fuel efficient airplanes.

 

[climb2slow]

As of right now, all communications from the company and the union are that our CBA will not be altered in this 11 process. I would like that believe that will stay the case, but as we all know, in 11, sometimes the judge makes decisions that the management may not have chosen.

 

[njcapt]

As of right now, all communications from the company and the union are that our CBA will not be altered in this 11 process. I would like that believe that will stay the case, but as we all know, in 11, sometimes the judge makes decisions that the management may not have chosen.

Hhhmmm. That's not really how it works. F9 management will probably make a motion to modify your CBA via a 1113e petition for short term relief, then really stick it to you with a 1113c. Given the composition of courts these days, the Judge will ultimately grant the motion - unless the F9 pilots negotiate something else with the company prior to the ruling. Expect them not to negotiate very vigorously, they know they hold all the cards.

I hate to break it to you, but management WILL stick it to you. There is absolutely no reason for them not to. In fact, they would be excoriated by the creditors committee if they left pilot wages and work rules on the table. If you think the pilot group would be willing to strike over the change to status quo, you can pretty much forget that, too. The ATA pilots choked on the strike vote when it was our turn to stand up, or we might have challenged the porking of our CBA. Good thing we didn't. When the NWA Flight Attendants declared a strike over changes to their status quo while under a 1113c motion the Bankruptcy Judge slapped an injunction on them, prohibiting them from self help.

Can't harm the 'entity' after all. You do not matter.

 

[climb2slow]

I'm fully aware of the proceedings and how things work. I was only stating that up to this point, the company has stated that they have no desire to touch our CBA. They maintain that this Chapter 11 is different than others, and they have no intention of working through the process on the backs of the employees. Do I believe them? No, but thats what they are saying. Anyhow, you are right, I don't think our pilot group would strike.

 

[CitationUltra]

I'm fully aware of the proceedings and how things work. I was only stating that up to this point, the company has stated that they have no desire to touch our CBA. They maintain that this Chapter 11 is different than others, and they have no intention of working through the process on the backs of the employees. Do I believe them? No, but thats what they are saying. Anyhow, you are right, I don't think our pilot group would strike.

How is this Chap. 11 "different that others?"

 

[climb2slow]

Beats me! I think what they mean is that our hand was forced by the Credit processor. We had over 130 million in cash plus another 35-40 million coming in from terminated aircraft. Had the processor not screwed our liquidity, we had (according to them) plenty of cash to continue for a while. In my opinion, the writing was on the wall though..you can't keep losing money with high oil prices and expect to not eventually end up in BK.

 

[Cardinal]

The FAPA contract isn't exactly choking the golden goose. Hourly rates are respectable, but fairly fluid work rules and a pilot group with minimal longevity mean F9 sees some of the lowest cockpit costs/block hour. Scope is downright generous. There's not much fat to trim, even assuming that was the plan.

I'm a "full pay to the last day" guy, but I fear such militancy is few and far between among those with an employee number less than 5000.

 

[CitationUltra]

Beats me! I think what they mean is that our hand was forced by the Credit processor. We had over 130 million in cash plus another 35-40 million coming in from terminated aircraft. Had the processor not screwed our liquidity, we had (according to them) plenty of cash to continue for a while. In my opinion, the writing was on the wall though..you can't keep losing money with high oil prices and expect to not eventually end up in BK.

Nearly all bankruptcies are "forced by the credit processor". Attempts to characterize this one as any different is just an attempt at "spin".