From the ALPA Age 60 Website...

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Look PCL, I know Prater. Not super well, but I've been hoping he would lead the union,

There can be no leadership without followership.....

 

[Flopgut]

This isn't a dictatorship. ALPA's official, majority position is to oppose a change to the retirement age change, he's basically ignoring it. A majority of the membership will understand cabotage is a bad thing and want our elected leaders to oppose it. Will he also ignore that if there is some sort of windfall for the minority?

The more we discuss this, I'm starting to think he should be recalled!

 

[Freight Dog]

There can be no leadership without followership.....

Well said. Just as there can be no followership without leadership. Unfortunately, I think that's the case right now.

 

[airfogey]

I would like to see an honest poll--ALPA would not allow any pro change info during their "discussion" two years ago prior to that poll,and I'm told that they used "statistical norming" to get the results they wanted. Lets see since that time USAIRWAYS east, Delta, and United have lost their pensions and the big elephant in the room is that since last Nov 23 pilots over 60 from airlines from all over the world have been able to fly in OUR airspace--so if ALPA wants to appease their young crewmembers and not change age 60 they better sure as hell push to not allow pilots from other countries to fly in our skies over age 60 while ours can't. Oh by the way Canadian ALPA members can fly to 65--must be the superior health care in their socialized medical system.
Finally, to all of you who want to make any change "fair" by phasing it in gradually, they sure didn't phase it in gradually 47 years ago. And BTW ALPA fought the rule tooth and nail during a time when the airlines were regulated, airlines didn't go out of business-the CAB arranged mergers with stronger carriers, pilots didn't usually get hired over 30-everybody had a 30 year career and had a stable pension--Yet ALPA fought it because it was discrimnation until the younger crewmembers outvoted the older crewmembers.

Airfogey

 

[Andy]

Andy keeps calling for Captain Prater's recall, yet he does nothing to bring it about.

These things take time. I'm not going to go rushing into a union meeting and call for Prater's recall tomorrow. Unless you're stupid, and I don't think you are, you know that such a measure would fail if not properly executed. I am not going to hastily rush into pushing for a recall; there is still time before the NPRM hits the streets.

How's that ALPA poll coming along? Will the entire membership be polled or just a select few? Will Prater actually follow the direction of the poll? And MOST importantly, does the poll discuss the stance that ALPA should take toward age 60 changes (like dump this 'pragmatic' garbage)?
I'll wait until I see the polling results and will guage my actions based on that.

And by posting my opinion on this board, an opinion shared by many others, the message DOES get back to ALPA national. We are the majority on this issue, although we have been quiet.

To throw out such a challenge to me - push for the immediate recall of Prater at a union meeting - is flamebaiting at it's worst. You know full well that there are far better intermediate measures to take. Besides, I'd like to get a few more ex-furloughees back before pushing for resolutions that would be favored by those of us who have been on the streets for the last five years.
Nice try PCl, but I'm not going to do something foolish as a result of your flamebaiting and I'm not going to be silent on this issue.
If you disapprove of open discussion on this forum, then I'd suggest that you disengage yourself from here.

 

[Andy]

I would like to see an honest poll--ALPA would not allow any pro change info during their "discussion" two years ago prior to that poll,and I'm told that they used "statistical norming" to get the results they wanted. Lets see since that time USAIRWAYS east, Delta, and United have lost their pensions and the big elephant in the room is that since last Nov 23 pilots over 60 from airlines from all over the world have been able to fly in OUR airspace--so if ALPA wants to appease their young crewmembers and not change age 60 they better sure as hell push to not allow pilots from other countries to fly in our skies over age 60 while ours can't.

Airfogey, we are in agreement on pro change information; it should be disseminated to the membership. Along with information on why to keep the status quo.
As for what other ICAO countries do, that is not something that US ALPA or the US government has control over. You are dealing with sovereignty issues. Or do you suggest that the US withdraw from ICAO?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

As for what other ICAO countries do, that is not something that US ALPA or the US government has control over. You are dealing with sovereignty issues. Or do you suggest that the US withdraw from ICAO?

Thru the Open Skies negotiations there is plenty of control...

 

[BluDevAv8r]

How's that ALPA poll coming along? Will the entire membership be polled or just a select few?

The poll has been completed. 1100 pilots were polled in a statistically random fashion by the Wilson Polling Center. However, a web survey will be made available next week for the rest of the month that is open to all ALPA pilots (including apprentice members).

Will Prater actually follow the direction of the poll?

For starters, the policy is already set - to oppose any changes to age 60 on the basis of safety. That said, Captain Prater doesn't have the ability to change policy on this issue. The only body that can change the policy is the Executive Board (all MEC Chairmen) or the Board of Directors (all local elected representatives in ALPA).

And MOST importantly, does the poll discuss the stance that ALPA should take toward age 60 changes (like dump this 'pragmatic' garbage)?

I'm not sure I understand the question. The poll is an attempt to accurate gauge member sentiment on this divisive issue in order to help the Executive Board and the rest of the ALPA leadership form a strategy for the future on this issue.

And by posting my opinion on this board, an opinion shared by many others, the message DOES get back to ALPA national. We are the majority on this issue, although we have been quiet.

Actually, it really doesn't....maybe to a few reps who read this board, but not to the majority of the elected officials. This is not a proper channel of communication by any means, especially since full names aren't used, etc.

-Neal

 

[Andy]

The poll has been completed. 1100 pilots were polled in a statistically random fashion by the Wilson Polling Center. However, a web survey will be made available next week for the rest of the month that is open to all ALPA pilots (including apprentice members).

That's the first that I've heard of a web survey. When does ALPA plan on telling the membership?

For starters, the policy is already set - to oppose any changes to age 60 on the basis of safety. That said, Captain Prater doesn't have the ability to change policy on this issue. The only body that can change the policy is the Executive Board (all MEC Chairmen) or the Board of Directors (all local elected representatives in ALPA).

While Captain Prater doesn't have the ability to change policy, his words and actions are in direct conflict with ALPA policy. What actions have the Executive Board and the Board of Directors have taken on this matter?

I'm not sure I understand the question. The poll is an attempt to accurate gauge member sentiment on this divisive issue in order to help the Executive Board and the rest of the ALPA leadership form a strategy for the future on this issue.

Does the poll account for Prater's current actions where he's assisting the FAA in implementing the change?

Actually, it really doesn't....maybe to a few reps who read this board, but not to the majority of the elected officials. This is not a proper channel of communication by any means, especially since full names aren't used, etc.

It's not the reps that communicate on this board; it's the membership. You know, the ones who elect the reps. This board allows the membership to share ideas which they take back to their indidual councils.
Step back and consider the people who use this board. Don't think in narrow terms of direct communication with ALPA national.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

It's not the reps that communicate on this board; it's the membership. You know, the ones who elect the reps. This board allows the membership to share ideas which they take back to their indidual councils.
Step back and consider the people who use this board. Don't think in narrow terms of direct communication with ALPA national.

Message boards like this may help influence other members but they are not nor is any ALPA message board a valid communications conduit for any elected rep.