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For Those About to Vote/Not Vote ALPA At SkyWest...

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Making contracts when things are good is not when alpo should be judged. It is when things are bad! alpo gets an F!!! Did skyw take a pay cut...EVER!
GO alpo?

Yes, while skywest management inked very lucrative deals that would fill the company cauffers and allow them to buy other airlines they removed COLA from the pay scales making an effective pay cut. To quote from a friend of mine on this subject:

The difference is when you look at 7-Year Pay Wage WITHOUT COLA ($67.94) vs. 7-YEAR pay WITH COLA ($83.52). The Difference = $15.58/hr. Or $15,580 annually (based on a 1000 hour flying year). This is the BUYING POWER you are giving up! This $15,580 in COLA is just so you can buy the same Starbucks Lattes, groceries for your family, gas for your car, etc. during the next 7 years. I can GUARANTEE the prices of these things will ALL raise at the rate of the CPI (Consumer Price Index) or more during the next 7 years. This $15,580 is JUST TO KEEP UP with the CPI.

Your ANNUAL RAISE (per se) for Experience and Longevity is wiped out by NOT having COLA. In fact, you will be working for the same (Buying Power Wage) 7 years from now as you are today. (Actually a bit less).

I'll make it even more simple. I'll give you a job today, but don't expect a raise for the next 7 years. In fact, you actually have to take a $0.23/hr PAY CUT every year for the next 7 years for the priviledge of me hiring you today.

BTW, COLA is not a fixed number, it fluctuates based upon the CPI. I used an average. Next year is projected to be around 3.1% (could be more . . .could be less)

So YES Skywest pilots DID take a pay cut when they were forced out of COLA which was in place when I was hired.
 
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I was greeted today in SFO by ALPA reps. They said that in checking all the records, they found that SKYWEST has fired more pilots in the month of July 2007 than ASA has done throughout the whole year till then.

I have two friends that have gotten fired from Skywest. Both with not so big of issues to be fired by. My major concern is job protection, and a legal binding contract that stands legally in a court of law, that policy manual means nothing to anyone.

I know of two pilots that were unfairly fired by Skywest, and were only able to get their jobs back because they had to spend the cash on individual lawyers.

We are all "probationary" pilots as long as we all abide by a policy manual, and not a contract.
 
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Yes, while skywest management inked very lucrative deals that would fill the company cauffers and allow them to buy other airlines they removed COLA from the pay scales making an effective pay cut. To quote from a friend of mine on this subject:

The difference is when you look at 7-Year Pay Wage WITHOUT COLA ($67.94) vs. 7-YEAR pay WITH COLA ($83.52). The Difference = $15.58/hr. Or $15,580 annually (based on a 1000 hour flying year). This is the BUYING POWER you are giving up! This $15,580 in COLA is just so you can buy the same Starbucks Lattes, groceries for your family, gas for your car, etc. during the next 7 years. I can GUARANTEE the prices of these things will ALL raise at the rate of the CPI (Consumer Price Index) or more during the next 7 years. This $15,580 is JUST TO KEEP UP with the CPI.

Your ANNUAL RAISE (per se) for Experience and Longevity is wiped out by NOT having COLA. In fact, you will be working for the same (Buying Power Wage) 7 years from now as you are today. (Actually a bit less).

I'll make it even more simple. I'll give you a job today, but don't expect a raise for the next 7 years. In fact, you actually have to take a $0.23/hr PAY CUT every year for the next 7 years for the priviledge of me hiring you today.

BTW, COLA is not a fixed number, it fluctuates based upon the CPI. I used an average. Next year is projected to be around 3.1% (could be more . . .could be less)

So YES Skywest pilots DID take a pay cut when they were forced out of COLA which was in place when I was hired.

Good points......

However...... even at ALPA carriers, you don't get "COLA"..... The new ASA TA gives 700 pilots a 1% raise. This is a 1% raise after 5 years.... Hardly COLA....

Every one else is only getting 1% per year even though inflation is much more, and like to increase....

Voting in ALPA doesn't guarantee you COLA.... in fact, most ALPA carriers haven't gotten COLA increases and many have taken paycuts.....
 
Its amazing that these kids will spend 10's of thousands of dollars to be professional airline pilots, go to Skywest, and be subjected to the whim of managment for life. How can you justify that type of investment only to be fired cause management wants to make a problem go away (IOW not accept responsibility...)

Amazing...
 
difete,

please PM me with info on all of these firings.

In my own research talking to CPs, SkyWest fires about 5-7 pilots PER YEAR, including the retards who've been busted for alcohol. The others are for not passing probationary rides, IOE, etc.
 
Making contracts when things are good is not when alpo should be judged. It is when things are bad! alpo gets an F!!! Did skyw take a pay cut...EVER!
GO alpo?






Um, yeah...we've been taking a pay cut every year since they took away our annual COLA(7 years and locked in with our great 0 or 1% for another 4)!!!!
 
So let me say this here, cause I really need to vent:

Is SAPA closing PICs as fast as they can to publish PIC resolutions as a success story to the pilot group?

I have two PICs were nothing was resolved or any Policy was revised or changed to benefit neither the pilot group, nor myself.

Here are both of my PICS:

PIC ID#204 filed 7/18/2006
Issue: Violations of Company Policy Manual SP73 FMLA and seniority protection.

Resolution: (keep in mind it was pending for more than a year)
SAPA writes: "We have been informed that not one pilot was awarded SLC prior to the submitter being award SLC."

In other words I filed a complaint based on a lie. I was a lier, no one went over my seniority in this case. After more than a year and this is the best SAPA can do for this policy violation?????

Better yet, they have posted this PIC as a SAPA resolved PIC... One more victory for SAPA!!! Hurray!!!

PIC ID 167 filed 3/3/2006
Issue: Honoring managment's "recorded" voicemail assuring me of a class date, and then rearranging pilot standing electronic bids to keep me in DEN as an FO for a longer period of time. Violation of SP323(3)(4e.)

Resolution: Sapa states, "In recent correlation with Crew Support, it was determined that the submitter has been awarded his desired class date."

So since I got the award a month later, it means that their word is worthless??????????

SAPA, you have done nothing for me as an individual, but given managment an upper hand to violate their self impose "Policies". If I were to fly their planes with the same recklessness as they and you deal with me and the rest of the pilot group concerning our work rules, I think safety would be at a stake!!!

The lack of seriusness in your organization, and your lack of professionalism throughout your "Presidential Clowning" has let me no choice but to look to another stronger, and "Lawfull" way of representation.

I hereby exercise my right to vent (Free Speech),

Good day gentlemen,

Difete
 
I was greeted today in SFO by ALPA reps. They said that in checking all the records, they found that SKYWEST has fired more pilots in the month of July 2007 than ASA has done throughout the whole year till then.

I have two friends that have gotten fired from Skywest. Both with not so big of issues to be fired by. My major concern is job protection, and a legal binding contract that stands legally in a court of law, that policy manual means nothing to anyone.

I know of two pilots that were unfairly fired by Skywest, and were only able to get their jobs back because they had to spend the cash on individual lawyers.

We are all "probationary" pilots as long as we all abide by a policy manual, and not a contract.





Sadly, the list is a lot longer than your 2 friends...
 
I do not have alot of background about the bucket system but there are reps that do.


As for PBS, the pilot group did actually initiate the move. I know all of you wont believe this, but the PBS program was started for pilot QOL. Get a running start for the dog pile, but that is the where it got iit's start. What some of oyu don't realize is that there pilots that spend tons of their own time to enhance the PBS system.




It's funny, I don't remember ever being involved with "initiating PBS", or even being asked if I wanted it... as for QOL, I without a doubt did better with hard lines on both pay and days off!
 
I dont remember working 6 days in a row, one day off and six days in a row again during hard lines.
 
difete,

please PM me with info on all of these firings.

In my own research talking to CPs, SkyWest fires about 5-7 pilots PER YEAR, including the retards who've been busted for alcohol. The others are for not passing probationary rides, IOE, etc.




I would imagine some of those that are let go for not passing checkrides etc, may fail those rides due to pissing off someone in the training department or managment.
 
Good points......

However...... even at ALPA carriers, you don't get "COLA"..... The new ASA TA gives 700 pilots a 1% raise. This is a 1% raise after 5 years.... Hardly COLA....

Every one else is only getting 1% per year even though inflation is much more, and like to increase....

Voting in ALPA doesn't guarantee you COLA.... in fact, most ALPA carriers haven't gotten COLA increases and many have taken paycuts.....

You missed the point. Skywest pilots already HAD COLA in place back from the good old days when management really did keep Skywest pilots top of the industry. Sapa gave COLA away without so much as a batted eye and forgot to ask the pilots they represent if that would be ok, which of course it wouldnt be. This has been an ongoing trend for five plus years at Skywest under the reigns of Sapa.
 
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difete,

please PM me with info on all of these firings.

In my own research talking to CPs, SkyWest fires about 5-7 pilots PER YEAR, including the retards who've been busted for alcohol. The others are for not passing probationary rides, IOE, etc.

Your own research? Talking? Research requires documentation! Did you attend college? Take a science course?

In addition, you asked the hangman how many he's hung? Don't you think your "research" will be skewed? That is like asking saddam how many he has killed!
 
I was greeted today in SFO by ALPA reps. They said that in checking all the records, they found that SKYWEST has fired more pilots in the month of July 2007 than ASA has done throughout the whole year till then.

I have two friends that have gotten fired from Skywest. Both with not so big of issues to be fired by. My major concern is job protection, and a legal binding contract that stands legally in a court of law, that policy manual means nothing to anyone.


We are all "probationary" pilots as long as we all abide by a policy manual, and not a contract.


Exactly how many were fired at SkyWest and how many were fired at ASA and what
were they fired for?

Sadly, the list is a lot longer than your 2 friends...

What do you guys consider fire able offenses?
 
I would imagine some of those that are let go for not passing checkrides etc, may fail those rides due to pissing off someone in the training department or managment.

Then why don't they throw the book at all the people on the OC and set them up to fail so they can be fired when they come for a checkride? Do you want your familiy on airplanes flown by people who are not passing checkrides or any other part of the training?
 
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Then why don't they throw the book at all the people on the OC and set them up to fail so they can be fired when they come for a checkride? Do you want your familiy on airplanes flown by people who are not passing checkrides or any other part of the training?

I assume that UAL, Delta, Northwest, Mesaba, ASA, Pinnacle..etc dont want to have passengers on their airplane with pilots that dont pass their checkrides either. But the respected companies have worked with their unions to improve training events to ensure that individuals are given the necessary additional training to make for better captains.

Have you ever questioned the training department and maybe believe it was the training department's fault or training material that caused the failure? Do you have a group that can question the training department? So you support the termination of pilots? Thanks for looking after the interests of the pilots?
 
I assume that UAL, Delta, Northwest, Mesaba, ASA, Pinnacle..etc dont want to have passengers on their airplane with pilots that dont pass their checkrides either. But the respected companies have worked with their unions to improve training events to ensure that individuals are given the necessary additional training to make for better captains.

Have you ever questioned the training department and maybe believe it was the training department's fault or training material that caused the failure? Do you have a group that can question the training department? So you support the termination of pilots? Thanks for looking after the interests of the pilots?

Questioned the training department, absolutely. But the person I responded to implied that people are failing training or checkrides because someone in management or the training dept has it out for them. I find it hard to believe that that is only reason people are not getting thru training with the number of pilots (both newhires and existing) that have training every year and pass. Most that don't are given additional training in one form or another.

I do not support the termination of pilots, but don't be so naive that you think that every pilot who gets fired is a victim and is not guilty of what they are fired for.
 
I do not support the termination of pilots, but don't be so naive that you think that every pilot who gets fired is a victim and is not guilty of what they are fired for.

True, but every person terminated needs to have an independent review process with the best available protection and resources. Would you not agree?
 
I could be wrong but i dont think that SAPA can legally represent you in a hearing. Remember that you are only as good as your last flight. Do you really want to wager your career on that possibility?
 
True, but every person terminated needs to have an independent review process with the best available protection and resources. Would you not agree?

Is this not a basic and cornerstone right in our American culture? Why do the Skywest pilots reject thier basic American rights? For what? The chance to spend 100K to fly a jet for 30K? Only to have it all thrown away on a skewed termination....

Skywest pilots...about as much rights as a chinaman.
 
Is this not a basic and cornerstone right in our American culture? Why do the Skywest pilots reject thier basic American rights? For what? The chance to spend 100K to fly a jet for 30K? Only to have it all thrown away on a skewed termination....

Skywest pilots...about as much rights as a chinaman.

Come on, let's not blow this out of proportion. You make it sound like they were forced at gunpoint to work there and have no choice to leave. I fail to see how that corrolates to a country with a long history of human rights violations. I also don't understand your need to use a derogotory term like 'Chinaman" to get your agenda across.
 
I also don't understand your need to use a derogotory term like 'Chinaman" to get your agenda across.

What? Chinaman is offensive now? What the hell are we allowed to say? I hate this PC crap...
 
Questioned the training department, absolutely. But the person I responded to implied that people are failing training or checkrides because someone in management or the training dept has it out for them. I find it hard to believe that that is only reason people are not getting thru training with the number of pilots (both newhires and existing) that have training every year and pass. Most that don't are given additional training in one form or another.

I do not support the termination of pilots, but don't be so naive that you think that every pilot who gets fired is a victim and is not guilty of what they are fired for.

I would say that you are the one who is being naive here. Ever heard of "Termination Taylor" who was a check airman in the EMB for many years at skywest? His failure rate was ridiculously high. Here is a guy who had been divorced FOUR times, who was pissed he didnt make it to a major, who hated seeing especially younger guys come into his sim sessions with a smile on their face thinking they would someday be at a major. He was not a happy camper. During a three year period him and Gary Bishop had more pilots terminated on the EMB than almost all the other instructors combined. Taylor had alot of complaints levied against him (New hires who did survive told of his unprofessional behavior, name calling, yelling and generaly over aggressive behavior in the sim) complained to cheif pilots and others but it all fell on deaf ears. I personaly asked Bill Boyce, who was in charge of EMB flight training at the time, in his office about Taylor. I asked, have you noticed a higher than normal failure rate when some of your instructors are giving checkrides than others, like for example S. Taylor? He said "S. Taylor, well no in fact I'm having lunch with S in a few minutes." I came to find out that Taylor had been kissing Boyces butt for some time and even was up for his position when he moved on which fortunately didnt work out when the position was changed.

These guys have mellowed somewhat in recent years, maybe after getting over their mid life crisis. There will always be "power trip" personalities who migrate into the training dept so rest assured you always have a chance of getting a Temination Taylor on one of your checkrides. The point is that there are good pilots who are failed on checkrides and fired who dont deserve to be. Most checkairman know that they can fail anybody on a checkride. One checkairman told me by introducing a sequence of events in a certain order along with loading the pilot up he can nine times out of ten get the guy in the sim to shut down the wrong engine. Now you add in a pissed off sim instructor, where there is little oversite and he is friends with several of the other instructors and no true representation for the pilot and pilots are fired who dont deserve to be, its as simple as that.

Then there is the guy who's dad was a chief pilot for Delta. He had lots of experience and was an excellent pilot. He got in the crosshairs of another pissed off checkairman (J.G. who was a former MD80 pilot who many said crossed the picket line at Eastern) who loaded him up on the first day of IOE, overstated some of his mistakes to Bill Boyce and this pilot was later fired for incompetence. I want to point out that almost everybody that I have ever spoke to who flew with this guy said he was a very sharp pilot.

Even the best pilots put with a checkairman who seems to have a chip on his shoulder can easily find their job in jeapardy. The other thing is once behind the eight ball at skywest they have been known to leave you hanging for weeks without any information of what is going on. I knew another pilot that this happened to. He couldnt sleep for weeks, lost fifteen pounds and of course his performance suffered. He was fired at the end of this devistating his family. You will automatically say he was not a good pilot or that he didnt deserve to be at the controls of an airplane with your family in the back. But once again those who flew with him at a freight job and as a flight instructor said he was an excellent pilot. It also took him nearly ten years to build a good track record to change opinions after skywest showed him as incompetant in his training file. He is now flying at Continental.

Then there is the case of Andy X who was a pro union guy. He along with Andy B posted on the Skywest forums to give their two bits on the value of a union. He was also known to be an excellent pilot by all who flew with him while he was a first officer. During upgrade he was paired with non other than Termination Taylor, was subsequently fired. The list goes on and on. I know some people will refuse to believe there are personalities and agendas that go on in this industry. It will only dawn on you when you find yourself in the hot seat one day because heaven forbid you made a mistake but it is a reality and there are "bad people" who dont care about you and who cannot be trusted with your future carreer. You do in fact need someone that is tasked only with representing you to the fullest. Ask Don D how he was represented by Sapa. What do you think his thoughts were when Jim Black from Sapa, who was supposed to represent him was giving testimony at the so called hearing that actually harmed Don's case. It should be pointed out Jim Black has been gunning for a managment position at skywest for about as long has he has been employed there. Conflict of interest at the expense of a good fifteen year veteran who had no previously flying, or disciplinary issues....you tell me?!
 
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Having said all that I want to also acknowledge there are true professionals at Skywest. You wont find a more knowledgable or competent check airman than Art Emery. He follows the fundamentals of intructing and always leaves a well polished pilot when he is finished training him. It should also be noted Art has a very low failure rate with his students.
 
I would say that you are the one who is being naive here. Ever heard of "Termination Taylor" who was a check airman in the EMB for many years at skywest? His failure rate was ridiculously high. Here is a guy who had been divorced FOUR times, who was pissed he didnt make it to a major, who hated seeing especially younger guys come into his sim sessions with a smile on their face thinking they would someday be at a major. He was not a happy camper. During a three year period him and Gary Bishop had more pilots terminated on the EMB than almost all the other instructors combined. Taylor had alot of complaints levied against him (New hires who did survive told of his unprofessional behavior, name calling, yelling and generaly over aggressive behavior in the sim) complained to cheif pilots and others but it all fell on deaf ears. I personaly asked Bill Boyce, who was in charge of EMB flight training at the time, in his office about Taylor. I asked, have you noticed a higher than normal failure rate when some of your instructors are giving checkrides than others, like for example S. Taylor? He said "S. Taylor, well no in fact I'm having lunch with S in a few minutes." I came to find out that Taylor had been kissing Boyces butt for some time and even was up for his position when he moved on which fortunately didnt work out when the position was changed.

These guys have mellowed somewhat in recent years, maybe after getting over their mid life crisis. There will always be "power trip" personalities who migrate into the training dept so rest assured you always have a chance of getting a Temination Taylor on one of your checkrides. The point is that there are good pilots who are failed on checkrides and fired who dont deserve to be. Most checkairman know that they can fail anybody on a checkride. One checkairman told me by introducing a sequence of events in a certain order along with loading the pilot up he can nine times out of ten get the guy in the sim to shut down the wrong engine. Now you add in a pissed off sim instructor, where there is little oversite and he is friends with several of the other instructors and no true representation for the pilot and pilots are fired who dont deserve to be, its as simple as that.

Then there is the guy who's dad was a chief pilot for Delta. He had lots of experience and was an excellent pilot. He got in the crosshairs of another pissed off checkairman (J.G. who was a former MD80 pilot who many said crossed the picket line at Eastern) who loaded him up on the first day of IOE, overstated some of his mistakes to Bill Boyce and this pilot was later fired for incompetence. I want to point out that almost everybody that I have ever spoke to who flew with this guy said he was a very sharp pilot.

Even the best pilots put with a checkairman who seems to have a chip on his shoulder can easily find their job in jeapardy. The other thing is once behind the eight ball at skywest they have been known to leave you hanging for weeks without any information of what is going on. I knew another pilot that this happened to. He couldnt sleep for weeks, lost fifteen pounds and of course his performance suffered. He was fired at the end of this devistating his family. You will automatically say he was not a good pilot or that he didnt deserve to be at the controls of an airplane with your family in the back. But once again those who flew with him at a freight job and as a flight instructor said he was an excellent pilot. It also took him nearly ten years to build a good track record to change opinions after skywest showed him as incompetant in his training file. He is now flying at Continental.

Then there is the case of Andy X who was a pro union guy. He along with Andy B posted on the Skywest forums to give their two bits on the value of a union. He was also known to be an excellent pilot by all who flew with him while he was a first officer. During upgrade he was paired with non other than Termination Taylor, was subsequently fired. The list goes on and on. I know some people will refuse to believe there are personalities and agendas that go on in this industry. It will only dawn on you when you find yourself in the hot seat one day because heaven forbid you made a mistake but it is a reality and there are "bad people" who dont care about you and who cannot be trusted with your future carreer. You do in fact need someone that is tasked only with representing you to the fullest. Ask Don D how he was represented by Sapa. What do you think his thoughts were when Jim Black from Sapa, who was supposed to represent him was giving testimony at the so called hearing that actually harmed Don's case. It should be pointed out Jim Black has been gunning for a managment position at skywest for about as long has he has been employed there. Conflict of interest at the expense of a good fifteen year veteran who had no previously flying, or disciplinary issues....you tell me?!


As a current checkairman all I'll I'm going to say is that there is always more to the story than what your average line pilot is going to hear. You make it sound like we have so much power and no accountability. Sorry to bust your bubble but that's not how it is. Yes there are guys that get reputations because they are jerks but you are not alone. Maybe 10 years ago there were rogues in the training department, but I challenge you to name a bad apple thats giving PC's now. Remember, we are hiring guys now that are pure CFI or less! We just changed the way we count IOE hours to get everyone the absolute most time we can. Would ALPA get a new hire more than 50 hours of IOE? Are there going to be ALPA reps that are going to armchair quarterback a persons sim session that was unsat? Wasn't there supposed to be ruling on the Don D. case months ago? And didn't the company make one of he OC members a checkairman well after the drive was organized?

You said,"The point is that there are good pilots who are failed on checkrides and fired who dont deserve to be." What is your basis for this? Are you saying that one bust and your gone? Can you tell us what happens after a person busts their PC?
 
As a current checkairman all I'll I'm going to say is that there is always more to the story than what your average line pilot is going to hear. You make it sound like we have so much power and no accountability. Sorry to bust your bubble but that's not how it is. Yes there are guys that get reputations because they are jerks but you are not alone. Maybe 10 years ago there were rogues in the training department, but I challenge you to name a bad apple thats giving PC's now. Remember, we are hiring guys now that are pure CFI or less! We just changed the way we count IOE hours to get everyone the absolute most time we can. Would ALPA get a new hire more than 50 hours of IOE? Are there going to be ALPA reps that are going to armchair quarterback a persons sim session that was unsat? Wasn't there supposed to be ruling on the Don D. case months ago? And didn't the company make one of he OC members a checkairman well after the drive was organized?

You said,"The point is that there are good pilots who are failed on checkrides and fired who dont deserve to be." What is your basis for this? Are you saying that one bust and your gone? Can you tell us what happens after a person busts their PC?

Yes ALPA reps will intervene and stand in if there is questions regarding how a checkride has been administered. The company making an OC member a checkairman has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I stated above that we also have very professional checkairman. Some will be on the OC, others not.

After a person busts an upgrade checkride they will get another ride. Unfortunetely this is where the checkairman buddy system has come into play in the past. Remember the Captain canidate does not get to choose his instructor. In the case of Andy X he was given another instructor who was friends with the first. The checkride was extra "thorough" and ended in a bust. Here is a guy who had been with skywest several years, a perfect track record in training, all captains he flew with said he was a very sharp pilot. Andy was vocal about the union. Mysterously during his upgrade ride if you were to believe the check airman conducting it and the subsequent ride, Andy didn't know what rudder puddles where or up from down. He got broadsided, there is no two ways about it. If you go talk to instructors who are really familiar with the details, and who are willing to share, you will find out more. I have.

If pilots are busting at an abnormal rate, yes I do think with a good MEC, Alpa would figure out what it was going to take to see guys succeed after skywest "screened" them and offered them a job, up to and including 50 plus hours of IOE. It is true experience level coming into this job is down but once a guy is hired and making a sincere effort which 99.9% do at this level, the burden is on the company and the training dept to develop a training program that works and is helping pilots to succeed rather than getting them fired or failed, ending their career.
 
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I dont remember working 6 days in a row, one day off and six days in a row again during hard lines.


Yes but PBS is sooooooooooo great MMMMMMMkay

I am going to need you to come in and work on Sundayyyyyyyyyyyyy mmmmmmmmmmmmmmkay you have been CN'nd
Crew Needs.

Now if anyone in Sapa that has a cush schedule had to work a sweet SIX day pairing, then maybe they would pull their f-ing heads out and do something besides close up PIC's.

I am going to have to vote for ALPA mmmmmmkay.

If they put mainline interests first, so be it.

Peace
 
the burden is on the company and the training dept to develop a training program that works and is helping pilots to succeed rather than getting them fired or failed, ending their career.
That's where we disagree. I think this training dept is one of the best! How many thousands of pilots has it trained in the last 8 years? 2000 or more? Yet because we are not ALPA it is somehow flawed? People bust upgrade/traing events for a number of reasons. I'm sure you know most of the same stories I do. I am a pilot as are you. But not all pilots are meant to be regional pilots. Getting hired at an airline should not be a jobs program. If ALPA wants someone to get more IOE than 50 hours its the pilots fault, not the companies. Sure if SGU hired the "wrong" person but remember these guys are COMMERCIALLY rated pilots that have passed the sim/AC checkout to get to IOE. Sometimes a person just doesn't have it in them. Maybe if the FAA adopts that new "crew only" certificate we'll be forced to do "extra" training as part of the normal training event.

And just because you failed somewhere along the way, it is not the end of a pilots career. That's standard ALPA Fear tactic #221, without us to save you, you are done! I think most of use can be objective enough to know who should be a captain and who should not. Remember Ms Glideslope? Or Paula? Or the upgradeguy who wanted to call SLC center and/or the FSS to have them turn on the runway lights in PIH?

I have one funny story about your "bad guy" Mr. Taylor. He was doing the type rides to two new EMB captains in SLC. When it came time to taxi out, the first guy became confused as to the taxi route. When told to simply look at his 10-9 chart. That's when he admitted his Jepps were back with his partner in row 9. Taylor had him stop the plane, retrieve is stuff, and then continue. And yes he passed.

There is always room for improvement in any department. Do we need ALPA to "fix" this one? We'll know in mid-Nov.

Fly Safe.
 
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