For the CRJ pilots at XJET

[Nevets]

With prefbid I get three four day trips a month with 18 days off and a block of 7-10 days off each month. On vacation months I do 2 4-day trips and get 20 days in a row. And you don't have to be real senior to do it if pairings are credited high enough and the company is fair with the credit window.

No, I don't want globalization. It's an inferior system.

Same with our line bidding system but that's not cost competitive so get on board.

 

[Nevets]

A couple of points.

First and most important, there will be no practice runs with different bidding systems before a TA vote. You will only get to practice the system voted in. Then, it will not be very good represention if people choose not to play.

Second, xjt mec wants to embrace a globalization system is to protect there "relative junior" pilots. I know full well we have not negotiated anything with seniority lists. But, it is in managements and the more junior group's interest to marginalize seniority benefits. If you create a system that does that, then you don't need to fight as hard in list integration.

There will be real live runs on smartpref. And the fact that it uses globalization has nothing to do with protecting anyone. Anyway, I thought you guys didnt like that your MEC only protects the senior guys?

 

[www.]

They have, several times. The ASA MEC has not.

Let's tell the truth now. If your going to tell a story make sure it's the whole story not just McKnights.

 

[ASApuppy]

There will be real live runs on smartpref. And the fact that it uses globalization has nothing to do with protecting anyone. Anyway, I thought you guys didnt like that your MEC only protects the senior guys?

Wanna bet? The first time you will see smartpref live is if its voted in. We never saw flightline live until after it got voted in. We only played with Virgin Americas prior to voting. Flightline refused to commit programming cost until they had the contract and then it took months to do. Globalization marginalizes seniority. I have endured my time to achieve what little I have and have no intention of giving it up a schedule I could have had for what be fit better with someone Jr. You might want to rethink your position.

We have to go forward with contract rules that work for us when we are perpetually short staffed. Globalization would be great for the company and the Jr peps. I do not want a schedule where every month your doing what fits best for the company. Sorry.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Once again from my 15 years with SKYW, if you vote in PBS you will be hosed beyond your wildest nightmares. The reason they haven't exercised the cornhole feature yet, is they need everybody onboard and playing before the engage the cornholing feature. If you don't have vacation and sick time accrual increases you will find that your vacations will be drastically shorter, with trips touching both sides of your vacation. Since PBS came onboard my vacations all have had this wonderful feature. Without transparency the company can adjust the flying without telling anyone, your schedule just increases to FAR limits with no recourse, except sick calling. You guys haven't enjoyed the full wrath of Brad yet, once he gets everything hammered down and in place he will get the game plan from the F&H head office and you will feel exactly what is possible. If you read your 10Q carefully you will find Ford & Harrison ( http://www.fordharrison.com/ ). SKYW Airlines pilots has had the dubious pleasure during multiple union drives. Watch this series: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-0gxca-VxM the not so funny thig is you will see everything in the playbook almost exactly too a tee as described.
You junior guys who think PBS is the shiznit wait until those senior to you figger out how to bid effectively, I experience this every month and I am fairly senior in my base. I figgered out that bidding for a high paying local on either end of a decent paying 2 or 3 day yielded a 28+ hour work week, or adding one of those high paying local to an OK 4 day meant 3 5 day work blocks a month. Problem is the guys senior to me saw what some of us were doing and jumped on the band wagon, I am now back doing 22 hr 4 day trips with the occasional 18 beauty thrown in. Message is PBS in any form is a concession, otherwise why would management want it so bad? If they want it, ask yourself whats their angle. In SKYW's case it means they want ultimate control of your schedule, do you want to give it to them blindly?

 

[Brasilia Pup]

Message is PBS in any form is a concession, otherwise why would management want it so bad? If they want it, ask yourself whats their angle.

I like the PBS over the line-bidding we used to have. Much more flexibility. But, it is only as good as the work rules behind it. The L-XJT guys have a valid point. Their work rules are different from ours (read: better).

On the other hand, I believe their experience with PBS comes from what they hear from the poster-child of what NOT to do with PBS (see Continental's system).

PBRstreetgang speaks words of wisdom. If mgmt wants something so badly, ask yourself, "Why?" Anything mgmt wants usually comes at the pilot's expense.

Both sides need to work together and hammer out this contract maturely and professionally. Get the work rules figured out first. Then work on the bidding system. If we work together, we'll have a kick-ass contract and a powerful pilot group.

 

[Clutch]

Once again from my 15 years with SKYW, if you vote in PBS you will be hosed beyond your wildest nightmares. The reason they haven't exercised the cornhole feature yet, is they need everybody onboard and playing before the engage the cornholing feature. If you don't have vacation and sick time accrual increases you will find that your vacations will be drastically shorter, with trips touching both sides of your vacation. Since PBS came onboard my vacations all have had this wonderful feature. Without transparency the company can adjust the flying without telling anyone, your schedule just increases to FAR limits with no recourse, except sick calling. You guys haven't enjoyed the full wrath of Brad yet, once he gets everything hammered down and in place he will get the game plan from the F&H head office and you will feel exactly what is possible. If you read your 10Q carefully you will find Ford & Harrison ( http://www.fordharrison.com/ ). SKYW Airlines pilots has had the dubious pleasure during multiple union drives. Watch this series: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-0gxca-VxM the not so funny thig is you will see everything in the playbook almost exactly too a tee as described.
You junior guys who think PBS is the shiznit wait until those senior to you figger out how to bid effectively, I experience this every month and I am fairly senior in my base. I figgered out that bidding for a high paying local on either end of a decent paying 2 or 3 day yielded a 28+ hour work week, or adding one of those high paying local to an OK 4 day meant 3 5 day work blocks a month. Problem is the guys senior to me saw what some of us were doing and jumped on the band wagon, I am now back doing 22 hr 4 day trips with the occasional 18 beauty thrown in. Message is PBS in any form is a concession, otherwise why would management want it so bad? If they want it, ask yourself whats their angle. In SKYW's case it means they want ultimate control of your schedule, do you want to give it to them blindly?

Union Buster = anti-communist

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Union Buster = anti-communist

Without a CBA you are at the mercy of management.
I am not sure how union=communism, quite the contrary, it is the coming together of a particular category of worker, communism is a comprehensive lumping together of all workers. If ones intellect only allows the 20 second attention span that the majority of America has, then by all means continue with the shallow O'Reilly inspired half thinks. If for one second you do not think that the upper management of all the airlines don't exchange ideas and plans, you should stick to the 20 second sound byte and wonder why that PBS sounded good for those 20 seconds, but sucks month after month. Allowing the company to have that level of control over your life is madness, and if one must allow PBS on the Titanic at least maintain control of the orchestra and arrangement of the deck chairs.
PBS works well for 2 small groups, 1_management and 2- the most senior pilots. To the junior guys who thinking that they control their days off with PBS, it holds true only if the guys who are senior to you don't want said days off.
The only pilot group who truly control their destiny are the LUV guys, ask someone who knows how their system works. Anytime you allow management unfettered access to your schedule they will manipulate it to their advantage. I implore someone who has a vested interest to peruse the SKYW/ASA 10Q for the fine print showing F&H line item, I know its there but want you to find it for your self. You guys are playing with the ultimate puppet masters and don't even realize it yet.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

If mgmt wants something so badly, ask yourself, "Why?" Anything mgmt wants usually comes at the pilot's expense.

Both sides need to work together and hammer out this contract maturely and professionally. Get the work rules figured out first. Then work on the bidding system. If we work together, we'll have a kick-ass contract and a powerful pilot group.

SKYW is the master of divide and conquer, it is the essence of the F&H playbook, ignore at your own peril.

 

[Clutch]

What airline are you employed by and who is your Union?


............

PBS has been an improvement to QOL

 

[PBRstreetgang]

What airline are you employed by and who is your Union?


............

PBS has been an improvement to QOL

Skywest Airlines 15+ years, and multiple union drives in the past to no avail, because against the concerted efforts of F&H and SKYW, both who have a pathological hatred of unions, currently unrepresented.
I will venture that virtually every pilot at ASA has no clue as to who and what they are up against. I personally have watched everything that the Confessions of a Union Buster video detailed used, against the pilots and F/As at SKYW airlines, it was almost comical in the scripting and execution, exactly as Martin Jay Levitt, Union Buster describes. You are playing in an arena that has been in place since the days of the early Airmail Pilots. And you knows what happens to those who fail to study history......
Ignore at your own peril.

 

[Clutch]

And yet, Skywest is the most sought after regional job.

What do you do with your 2% that isn't stolen out of your paychecks? Something fun I hope

 

[PBRstreetgang]

And yet, Skywest is the most sought after regional job.

What do you do with your 2% that isn't stolen out of your paychecks? Something fun I hope

Huh, you wouldn't know it from the quantities of empty seats in the new hire classes, no shows can approach 25%. 6+ year upgrade into the EMB/reserve? Most sought after regional job is kinda like the best strain of Herpes, If I wasn't in my position I would be working anywhere but in the regional side of the industry, and yes my UAL app was filled out days ago. That's right $31.00 an hour, no medical benefits for 6 months, and a commute to Guam looks like a better future than mine at SKYW.

 

[Clutch]

Indeed, the only people who want to stay at regionals are those who are too weird or have a sketchy past to make anything but a lateral move by leaving.. See JoeMerchant, Freebrd, etc. My point is, Skywest is better off than ASA/XJT/SureJet and you don't have corrupt shills intercepting your hard-earned wages.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

I warned the ASA guys about Brad H. in the past, and they said I was right, it was experience being passed on, nothing more. Am I unhappy at SKYW, not really in the top 20%, PBS is OK for me, I make a fair wage, but I recognize it for what it is, a job that has drifted into a career, but I am a realist and when the writing on the wall says its time to move on, I freely admit that I was using SKYW the same as they were/are using me, I collect a paycheck and they get their planes moved from A to B. Its just business, nothing more, my loyalty is to my family, my company is just a job, they get 100% while I am there and when I am not, I don't care what happens, if they cancel flights because I am not willing to come in on my day off, they should consider 3X pay, because my house is at minimum staffing.

The 2%, is far less than the 10,000 a year in missing bonus checks, so if you consider the 2%, from 10,000=$8,000 loss, the beer and hooker fund is a little light.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Indeed, the only people who want to stay at regionals are those who are too weird or have a sketchy past to make anything but a lateral move by leaving.. See JoeMerchant, Freebrd, etc. My point is, Skywest is better off than ASA/XJT/SureJet and you don't have corrupt shills intercepting your hard-earned wages.

The corrupt shills are in St George, Skywest may be better off today, but since chimp has started using the corncob without lube, that will affect their ability to staff the airline, 15+ years and I am on my way out, I imagine that 90% of the F/Os will be gone if the 1000TPIC is eliminated. Go to your local GA airport and find a flight school and check it out, ghost towns unless they are training foreign students.

 

[Nevets]

Wanna bet? The first time you will see smartpref live is if its voted in. We never saw flightline live until after it got voted in. We only played with Virgin Americas prior to voting. Flightline refused to commit programming cost until they had the contract and then it took months to do. Globalization marginalizes seniority. I have endured my time to achieve what little I have and have no intention of giving it up a schedule I could have had for what be fit better with someone Jr. You might want to rethink your position.

We have to go forward with contract rules that work for us when we are perpetually short staffed. Globalization would be great for the company and the Jr peps. I do not want a schedule where every month your doing what fits best for the company. Sorry.

You'll lose that bet because it is going live without any vote. Management has already signed an agreement with Crewing Solutions and programming has been going on for months. It will go live next month, I believe.

So if it's as bad as you say, we'll want out of it and the only way to do that would be through a JCBA. So why all the fuss?

 

[Nevets]

And yet, Skywest is the most sought after regional job.

What do you do with your 2% that isn't stolen out of your paychecks? Something fun I hope

And the same could be said about SWA, yet they are union.

 

[sweptback]

From listening to this XJT vs. ASA fight, it appears to me the battle is over seniority.

It's simple. ASA has always valued seniority in their bidding and workrules, and XJT has designed systems that mitigate it for the betterment of the junior/midlevel pilots. Whichever view is right probably depends on where you fit on the list.

That's what this PBS battle is about. Flightline honors seniority almost to a fault (in fact, it was designed this way because most PBS's logic does not honor it one way or the other), while SmartPref will not honor seniority at all times if a better overall solution is generated (zero open time).

The one thing about seniority is that it does improve with time. Those that are junior should ask themselves if they will still be a supporter of the system once they invariably become senior.

 

[Brasilia Pup]

SKYW is the master of divide and conquer, it is the essence of the F&H playbook, ignore at your own peril.

When I said "both sides", I was referring to the pilot groups (XJet & ASA). Our union reps cannot seem to act like professionals and make progress. Our reps are playing right into mgmt's hands. Communication from the ASA reps is nil. We hear what they (Union reps) want us to hear and have us all fired up, pilot vs pilot.

I have been on both sides of the fence (L-XJet & ASA...thanks to 9/11). Both pilot groups are great people. But the pilot groups need to know what is really going on, not hearsay from our "reps".