For the CRJ pilots at XJET

[Nevets]

ASA pilot here..... DONT WANT SMARTPREF. Since we started using flightline i have run into exactly 1 person who didn't like it. SMARTPREF = FAIL---globalization = fail. If you want SMARTPREF so badly then negotiate it into the ERJ side and keep it. if its worth so much more to you, then tell company you will take $2 an hour less to use smartpref. CRJ people i have spoken with happy with flightline and not interested in using 1 penny in negotiating capital to switch to smartpref

The ERJ side would rather keep line bidding, period. And therein lies our leverage. We can simply keep line bidding by doing NOTHING. Of course management doesn't want that AND they also want one pilot group. So it really would be the other way around. If you want your PBS, what are you willing to give up for it, keeping in mind that it also cannot be a concession for the ERJ side in the JCB, otherwise it's not going to be ratified...more leverage for the ERJ side again.

 

[Nevets]

Vote in smartpref, an unproven system, be miserable and live with it. Most of us will be gone anyway.

But prefbid is proven and has almost 100% satisfaction. If it was bad don't you think we'd be anxious to get rid of it? And don't pull the asa pilots drink the koolaid line. Asa pilots have never given in to mgmt. if prefbid sucked we would be on board with you.

If you're dumb enough to go for smartpref, then you deserve the consequences. I say let the erjs have smartpref and the crjs keep prefbid. See who's happier.

You make a good point. The ERJ side will test this system live with no other way to get out of it other than through a JCBA. If its as bad as you guys make it sound, we will be anxious to get rid of it as well! But if it proves itself, has almost 100% satisfaction and we are happier, what would you say then?

 

[wms]

I'd prefer line bidding with the erj rules over smartpref. I believe most pilots feel this way and the true story is the erj mec is sabatoging PBS by insisting on a system they know will never pass.

This isn't about which is better, smartpref or prefbid. It's about the erj mec making sure PBS goes away.

 

[enuffalready]

You make a good point. The ERJ side will test this system live with no other way to get out of it other than through a JCBA. If its as bad as you guys make it sound, we will be anxious to get rid of it. But if it proves itself, has almost 100% satisfaction and we are happier, what would you say then?

have said that from the beginning.... if you want smartpref... go ahead and keep it on the ERJ side... keep your line bidding... we dont care.... just dont infect us with either.

 

[Nevets]

I'd prefer line bidding with the erj rules over smartpref. I believe most pilots feel this way and the true story is the erj mec is sabatoging PBS by insisting on a system they know will never pass.

This isn't about which is better, smartpref or prefbid. It's about the erj mec making sure PBS goes away.

So if we were happier with smartpref, you would rather go to our currently line biding system? I don't honestly think the XJT MEC is trying to make sure PBS goes away. You give them too much credit. If they didn't want PBS, they don't other than the line bidding system we have now, they don't have to do ANYTHING!

 

[enuffalready]

I'd prefer line bidding with the erj rules over smartpref. I believe most pilots feel this way and the true story is the erj mec is sabatoging PBS by insisting on a system they know will never pass.

This isn't about which is better, smartpref or prefbid. It's about the erj mec making sure PBS goes away.

his job to to protect his pilots... i get that... his pilots want line bidding... i get that too. soooooooo, keep line bidding, go with smartpref.. do whatever your erj guys want.... all i know is we are happy with what we have.. we don't want either..and are certainly not interested in using negotiation capital on it

 

[Nevets]

his job to to protect his pilots... i get that... his pilots want line bidding... i get that too. soooooooo, keep line bidding, go with smartpref.. do whatever your erj guys want.... all i know is we are happy with what we have.. we don't want either..and are certainly not interested in using negotiation capital on it

Read my reply to you, post #21 which you ignored. It will take negotiating capital to keep your PBS than to do anything else.

 

[enuffalready]

Read my reply to you, post #21 which you ignored. It will take negotiating capital to keep your PBS than to do anything else.

Good luck with that.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Read my reply to you, post #21 which you ignored. It will take negotiating capital to keep your PBS than to do anything else.

I think you guys think you are in a better position than you actually are.

Time to get some popcorn before the show!

 

[SoberIrishman]

Could someone from the ERJ side explain in simple terms, why...

1. You seem to have been against PBS from the start.
2. You cannot come to terms with the fact that the overwhelming majority CRJ pilots are very happy with our PBS system.
3. You are not willing to help build on that with improved work rules in a new JCBA.

And finally....the real kicker.....

4. You now tout a PBS system that has globalization, a really dumb idea!

It is simply baffling to the CRJ pilots why you cannot figure this out. Perhaps a better idea would be for SKYW just to keep you guys separated from the ASA side. It seems likely we will never agree.

 

[crazy8]

Could someone from the ERJ side explain in simple terms, why...

1. You seem to have been against PBS from the start.
2. You cannot come to terms with the fact that the overwhelming majority CRJ pilots are very happy with our PBS system.
3. You are not willing to help build on that with improved work rules in a new JCBA.

And finally....the real kicker.....

4. You now tout a PBS system that has globalization, a really dumb idea!

It is simply baffling to the CRJ pilots why you cannot figure this out. Perhaps a better idea would be for SKYW just to keep you guys separated from the ASA side. It seems likely we will never agree.

We are against PBS from the start because any form of it is a major concession from what we currently have. You guys like it over your old line bidding because you didn't have the work rules we have.

Our current work rules are not compatible with PrefBid. There are no improvements that could be made to PrefBid that we would find acceptable. As a result, our MEC has found a system that is somewhat compatible, as long as the proper work rules were implemented.

 

[wms]

The same rules can be applied to prefbid.

 

[wms]

So if we were happier with smartpref, you would rather go to our currently line biding system? I don't honestly think the XJT MEC is trying to make sure PBS goes away. You give them too much credit. If they didn't want PBS, they don't other than the line bidding system we have now, they don't have to do ANYTHING!

With prefbid I get three four day trips a month with 18 days off and a block of 7-10 days off each month. On vacation months I do 2 4-day trips and get 20 days in a row. And you don't have to be real senior to do it if pairings are credited high enough and the company is fair with the credit window.

No, I don't want globalization. It's an inferior system.

 

[wms]

.....

 

[wms]

So if we were happier with smartpref, you would rather go to our currently line biding system? I don't honestly think the XJT MEC is trying to make sure PBS goes away. You give them too much credit. If they didn't want PBS, they don't other than the line bidding system we have now, they don't have to do ANYTHING!

Id want to run them side by side. Why don't you guys?

 

[PapaSiera]

Id want to run them side by side. Why don't you guys?

They have, several times. The ASA MEC has not.

 

[Clutch]

Maybe they want you to eff off.. Like the rest of us.

 

[dojetdriver]

There is something to be said that one side refuses to admit to researching, then waiting even longer to publish its findings to the constituents, while the other has published its findings almost a year ago? If you don't stop to ask that then you should ask what is each side's motivation.

They have, several times. The ASA MEC has not.

The ONLY 2 posts that really matter here.

And if I'm not mistaken, the L-ASA side tested the system without ANY workrules to control the parameters, is that correct?

 

[ASApuppy]

A couple of points.

First and most important, there will be no practice runs with different bidding systems before a TA vote. You will only get to practice the system voted in. Then, it will not be very good represention if people choose not to play.

Second, xjt mec wants to embrace a globalization system is to protect there "relative junior" pilots. I know full well we have not negotiated anything with seniority lists. But, it is in managements and the more junior group's interest to marginalize seniority benefits. If you create a system that does that, then you don't need to fight as hard in list integration.

 

[wms]

They have, several times. The ASA MEC has not.

I havent, and don't want to take anyone else's word. It's too important.