For All You FLOPS BJ Pilots, a little memory lane action

[o2bflyn]

Good. You finally figured it out.

Man, he will NEVER figure it out. What it boils down to is its the Captain's ass in the seat. He is responsible for everyones else's ass that is in his/her plane.

I would never want to ride with a Captain who chose to fly specifically because some engineer's computer told him it would work. I can see the grave stone now : "My company said it was airworthy."

 

[fischman]

Man, he will NEVER figure it out. What it boils down to is its the Captain's ass in the seat. He is responsible for everyones else's ass that is in his/her plane.

I would never want to ride with a Captain who chose to fly specifically because some engineer's computer told him it would work. I can see the grave stone now : "My company said it was airworthy."

REVEREND!

 

[B19 Flyer]

Bob, Since, Citation Shares and Flexjet chose to match/exceed the pay of Netjets that makes the Netjets contract the industry standard. What you give the Flight Options pilots is completely laughable with wages that don't even keep up with inflation. When you further compare it to the actual hours a Flight Options pilot flies compared to Netjets, Citation Shares or Flexjet, the Flight Options pilot makes even less because they constantly fly more per month. Since you are constantly comparing the fractionals to the 121 carriers, guess how the Flight Options pilots compare with salary and work rules? You are right, the bottom of the list! Why do you fear paying your employees a fair wage and giving them the protection of a fair labor contract?

First, it's not me... I would not have been nearly as patient with the shenangans that you guys write about on these boards.

Next, the cost of a contract isn't only about the wages, it's about work rules and the rest of the contract such as healthcare, time off, training, hotels and transportation. Wages are just a small part of the equation in a CBA.

As an example, look at the difference between UAW union workers and non-union workers and the cost to build a car.

The wages are virtually identical. Yet the cost to build a car is SO much less on the non-union side which is allowing the non-union carmakers to remain competitive.

 

[William Holiday]

If the above is true, why hasn't the consumer seen the discount, BTW the UAW has made plenty of concessions of late to compete. The sad part of this story is consumer sentiment for the domestics needs to improve. Much like the fractional in question.
News Flash.....low wages dont=profits or a superior product. Perception, followed up with a stong CSI is the key to profitability in this or any market.
Easy business with right group of people behind you.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Federal court upholds ban on pilots disrupting United service during contract talks

If the above is true, why hasn't the consumer seen the discount, BTW the UAW has made plenty of concessions of late to compete. The sad part of this story is consumer sentiment for the domestics needs to improve. Much like the fractional in question.
News Flash.....low wages dont=profits or a superior product. Perception, followed up with a stong CSI is the key to profitability in this or any market.
Easy business with right group of people behind you.

If you note, one of my biggest problems with unions is that they don't flow with the balance sheet of the company.

As you state above, the UAW has made concessions of late to compete. Had they stepped up to the plate earlier, how many overall union and non-union jobs may have been saved or could the organization have had the ability to adjust quicker to the changing market?

That can also be said of United, Delta and American labor unions. They took concessions when they were either forced to or about to be forced to. Before it got to that point, and is the current case of autoworkers, many non-union workers were sacrificed and lost their jobs first because of the high cost of the contract and the lack of action by unions.

My point about unions is that they inhibit the ability of a company to adjust quickly to the marketplace. The best

Non-union imported auto workers have a lot more job stablilty than the UAW workers do and are paid about the same yet the cost per hour to produce a car is a staggering amount less.

Now... to get this thread back on track, the courts in Illinois backed United to prevent the slowdowns. While this isn't specifically about the mechanical write up campaign that is being supported on this thread, it is about "holding to the letter of the contract" and the overall effect being to disrupt the airline operations. As I've stated before, the courts are no longer willing to play these union games.

Federal court upholds ban on pilots disrupting United service during contract talks


6:55 PM CDT, March 9, 2009

United Airlines notched a legal victory Monday when a federal appeals court let stand a preliminary injunction that bars the carrier's pilots union from interfering with United's operations.

The restraining order keeps union leaders and members on their best behavior heading into contract negotiations that open in April and are expected to be contentious.

The Air Line Pilots Association is prohibited from instigating or encouraging any work stoppage, sick-out, slow down, work-to-rule campaign or a concerted refusal to accept overtime assignments.

The lower court also ordered the union and its leaders to take all reasonable steps within their power to prevent pilots from taking those actions.
United won the restraining order from a U.S. District Court in Chicago last fall after a group of its junior pilots allegedly engaged in a "sick-out" in July after learning that their jobs would likely be eliminated as the Chicago-based carrier furloughed 950 active pilots.

Judge Joan Lefkow found that the union had participated in a campaign to disrupt United operations over the previous two years by pressuring pilots to stick to the letter of their contract and refuse overtime assignments when United was short-handed.

In its appeal, the union contended that Lefkow had ignored a six-month statute of limitations on purportedly unlawful job actions and that an injunction wasn't necessary since the sick-out had ended months earlier. However, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit agreed with Lefkow that stronger measurers were warranted.

United has since asked Lefkow to make the injunction permanent. An ALPA spokesman said the union had not decided whether it would appeal Monday's ruling.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Application of standards....

Man, he will NEVER figure it out. What it boils down to is its the Captain's ass in the seat. He is responsible for everyones else's ass that is in his/her plane.

I would never want to ride with a Captain who chose to fly specifically because some engineer's computer told him it would work. I can see the grave stone now : "My company said it was airworthy."

You will never figure it out either.

I would never want to ride with a Captain who chose to fly specifically because he applied his own standards and thought he understood a system rather than what some engineer's computer told him of how it would work.

I can see the grave stone now : "I applied my own standards and thought it was airworthy but it really wasn't."

 

[B19 Flyer]

NetJets has the ONLY industry contract genius.

And as a result will tumble the hardest when the cutbacks happen. The sad part is that all the other employees will suffer from the cutbacks first.

Then, the genius of those working for fracs that kept 1108 off their company property will be supported in full.

 

[fischman]

You will never figure it out either.

I would never want to ride with a Captain who chose to fly specifically because he applied his own standards and thought he understood a system rather than what some engineer's computer told him of how it would work.

I can see the grave stone now : "I applied my own standards and thought it was airworthy but it really wasn't."

Cool! Don't buy a share on NetJets then. You wouldn't like all the pilots who "apply all their own standards". I'm not the only one.

BTW, our safety record speaks for itself.

 

[fischman]

And as a result will tumble the hardest when the cutbacks happen. The sad part is that all the other employees will suffer from the cutbacks first.

Then, the genius of those working for fracs that kept 1108 off their company property will be supported in full.

What are you talking about? CS has already cut back. NO UNION!

Flex cut back. NO UNION!

FLOPS cut back. NO CBA!

NetJets HASN'T cut back either bargaining or NON-bargaining employees. UNION.

Statistics are against you. Now, IF NetJets decides to cut back in the future, which I don't think they will, we will probably cut back more people than all the others combined. Why? We have over 5000 employees in the US alone.

 

[x402]

Iggy button fish, he's just flame bait.

 

[B19 Flyer]

The unions don't protect their brethren, they protect their paychecks.

What are you talking about? CS has already cut back. NO UNION!

Flex cut back. NO UNION!

FLOPS cut back. NO CBA!

NetJets HASN'T cut back either bargaining or NON-bargaining employees. UNION.

Statistics are against you. Now, IF NetJets decides to cut back in the future, which I don't think they will, we will probably cut back more people than all the others combined. Why? We have over 5000 employees in the US alone.

Statistics are with me historically and long term, what lightly unionized DAL did vs. heavily unionized UAL and AMR backs me on that.

The year is young fischman and the other fracs have already made adjustments which NJ can't do anywhere near as easy because of the CBA.

I hope the cuts don't happen and you are right, the cuts will be deeper due to the size of the company.

But my question is and will be... when the cuts happen, will NJASAP open the CBA to save jobs or just let the jobs go?

We both know that answer, the unions don't protect their brethren, they protect their paychecks.

 

[fischman]

Statistics are with me historically and long term, what lightly unionized DAL did vs. heavily unionized UAL and AMR backs me on that.

The year is young fischman and the other fracs have already made adjustments which NJ can't do anywhere near as easy because of the CBA.

I hope the cuts don't happen and you are right, the cuts will be deeper due to the size of the company.

But my question is and will be... when the cuts happen, will NJASAP open the CBA to save jobs or just let the jobs go?

We both know that answer, the unions don't protect their brethren, they protect their paychecks.

There are no provisions in the contract for concessions. We don't make enough money to make any kind of difference in a company like NetJets.

That leaves 1 other option.

 

[1folinepilot]

You will never figure it out either.

I would never want to ride with a Captain who chose to fly specifically because he applied his own standards and thought he understood a system rather than what some engineer's computer told him of how it would work.

I can see the grave stone now : "I applied my own standards and thought it was airworthy but it really wasn't."

Bob, If you keep this crap up you will eventially see a grave stone that reads "this pilot is dead because management threats forced him to fly something that was unairworthy and unsafe"

Is all your cutting corners and trying to cheat the system worth the couple of dollars you are trying to save? Why not fix it right the first time and pay a fair wage?

 

[brokeflyer]

you do all know that b19 is just a regular line pilots at FLOPS right?.....

 

[993_Pilot]

you do all know that b19 is just a regular line pilots at FLOPS right?.....

Enlighten us more.

 

[brokeflyer]

Enlighten us more.

It all began as a joke just to feed the fire. Guess we seen where that went...lol.

 

[1folinepilot]

Quote:
Originally Posted by B19 Flyer
You will never figure it out either.

I would never want to ride with a Captain who chose to fly specifically because he applied his own standards and thought he understood a system rather than what some engineer's computer told him of how it would work.

I can see the grave stone now : "I applied my own standards and thought it was airworthy but it really wasn't."

Bob, If you keep this crap up you will eventially see a grave stone that reads "this pilot is dead because management threats forced him to fly something that was unairworthy and unsafe"

Is all your cutting corners and trying to cheat the system worth the couple of dollars you are trying to save? Why not fix it right the first time and pay a fair wage?

--------------------------------------------------

Regular line pilot, APM that should have been laid off, or Bob himself, it doesn't matter as he is too chicken sh!t to respond to the truth of my post!

Who ever he is, I truly feel sorry for him as he is a piece of SH!T

 

[1folinepilot]

CGF Crickets

And the response from the B-19/Skanza Koolaid club is----



Speak up now

We are waiting

Any day now

You can do it



We can't hear you over the sound of the CGF Crickets chirping away


I thought so!

OWNED!!!

 

[B19 Flyer]

What an unsafe idiot you are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B19 Flyer
You will never figure it out either.

I would never want to ride with a Captain who chose to fly specifically because he applied his own standards and thought he understood a system rather than what some engineer's computer told him of how it would work.

I can see the grave stone now : "I applied my own standards and thought it was airworthy but it really wasn't."

Bob, If you keep this crap up you will eventially see a grave stone that reads "this pilot is dead because management threats forced him to fly something that was unairworthy and unsafe"

Is all your cutting corners and trying to cheat the system worth the couple of dollars you are trying to save? Why not fix it right the first time and pay a fair wage?

--------------------------------------------------

Regular line pilot, APM that should have been laid off, or Bob himself, it doesn't matter as he is too chicken sh!t to respond to the truth of my post!

Who ever he is, I truly feel sorry for him as he is a piece of SH!T

What an A$$.

There is only one standard to judge how any componant works in an airplane. That of the manufacturer.

If you apply any other standard, you are breaking the rules and regulations that apply to the limitations of the componant.

If you place your standard to judge how a componant is to work it's clear that you don't know your job or can judge if it's airworthy or not.

If you apply your "standards" to anything to that you consider "broke", then it's clear that you will apply your standards to items that are broken but you think are airworthy because you haven't a clue as to what is and isn't airworthy.

It isn't management threats, it's because you haven't a freaking clue as to what you are doing and somebody has to hold your hand through the process.

What an unsafe idiot you are.

You think playing these union games will make you a hero amongst your brethren. Union pressure is far more dangerous than anything management does because of mob mentality.

 

[B19 Flyer]

There are no provisions in the contract for concessions. We don't make enough money to make any kind of difference in a company like NetJets.

That leaves 1 other option.

Yeah, right.... there aren't any provisions in the contract for sustained profitability in the contract either.