Flying for the Air National Guard

[AdlerDriver]

........On the topic of gratitude, I stand corrected. What's funny about the "hopefully some one doesn't pull that quote" comment you made is that I've already had the opportunity to VOLUNTEER it at interviews. Not only that, but opportunity to ELABORATE on it. They don't have those fighter/heavy sensitivities, I'm not scared of telling them I don't have inclinations to fly 121 and that my civilian aviation career expectations lie in other flying jobs and pursuits, more in tune with my desires and motivations...there is life,work, flying, and aviation outside 121 you know......

2 other comments. The lack of true "part-time" as a traditional Guardsman has already been covered. As I read the above, I have become curious. What other civilian careers do you have lined up that will allow you the time-off and schedule flexibility to meet the demands of a ANG fighter pilot position? I'm not saying you can't, I'm just curious what you've got?

One final point: Do you think your "SA-low" light might be on with regard to your post that has drawn all this attention and return fire? Don't you think there's a chance that someone affiliated with the Guard unit you're pledging might be a member on this forum(or know someone who is)? Do you think they might be able to look at the aircraft you've flown, your description of the trip to watch the aircraft land, your recounting of the F-16 pilot's remarks and figure out who you are? Unless they've got a revolving door of applicants (not likely), I'd say the Pk is pretty high. It would probably $uck to see a copy of that post in front of the Squadron Commander if you go back for an interview, eh Mr. Yeager?. I'd call you back just for the fun of watching you try to explain it - but then again, I'm not a nice man .

 

[pkober]

I think hindsight is using his hind sight and hiding under a rock.

 

[AlbieF15]

SA comes from experience and he just got some....

I'd say he's a very trainable chimp. Maybe he'll come to the Eagle one day and we'll get to fly together. Good luck kid!

 

[pkober]

I think Hindsight learned a valuable lessson.

A qoute from one of our former Navs is appropriate for Hindsight. He would give this one gem to all new LT's in the squadron. All the credit for this quote is his.

Hindsight if you are still lurking, learn this and live it for the next few years.

"Never pass up the opportunity to shut the f*&^ up !"

Good luck

CLAMBAKE

 

[trashhauler]

One more thing about flying for an airline and the Guard/Reserve at the same time. It's much easier to live either at your airline base or near your military unit, otherwise the family time is non-existent.

Because a lot of Guard/Reserve units want to hire locals, it might be easier to live there and commute to the airlines initially. Also, you won't have enough flight hours after training to get an airline job, so if you live near your unit, you can pick up training at the last minute. When I was a bum, I got called at least a couple of times a month at lunch time, asking if I could come in and fly that evening.

Many airlines are also going to preferential bidding systems, which means they will give you any time off for military that you need, but you won't get any pay from the airline while you're at military duty (for dropped trips).

Another reason it's good to live near your unit, many times a military flight training period will only be 4-6 hours and you can have the rest of the day at home.

Hope this helps.

 

[PilotOnTheRise]

SA comes from experience and he just got some....

I'd say he's a very trainable chimp. Maybe he'll come to the Eagle one day and we'll get to fly together. Good luck kid!

What unit do you fly the Eagle for?

 

[hindsight2020]

I did take a minute to duck out and catch all that flak. I never expected my comment to have that reaction. I still think most of you misunderstood me but I think it would be futile at this juncture to try and convince you otherwise.

The lame warnings of 'you'll never make it to UPT with that attitude' will be taken for what they're worth; to each their own, we agree to disagree. I'll keep y'all posted on where I end up just for the principle of it.

As for everything else, I understand the sentiment of the senior folks when it comes to 'allowing' someone with 'little' experience to speak up about a particular subject. I didn't know one had to be a 10-yr Guard veteran to chime on this f$ckin' board. Furthermore, being treated as if one's insight is de facto 'talking out of your @$$' because of one's relative early position in the process is utter bullsh@t, everybody was in my shoes at one point. If I was claiming to be in a position of 1st hand knowledge and assert things you disagree with, then I see how I may have been more diligent in my coments. But openly disclosing I'm still in the application process and y'all still give me the 'you don't have the right to breathe' bullshit, please.....

As for "never waste a good time to shut up" I agree, it's probably the one lesson I continue to learn, but it isn't because I don't know what I'm talking about, it's because it's futile to try and have a productive exchange with all this Type A 'if you don't fly the F-16' stench on this board. I'll probably refrain from contributing anything, point my nose into the wind and continue to work on my sh$t; this ego-peddling exchange makes time at work go by for sure, but it doesn't really contribute sh%t in the end. I do thank those senior folks who HAVE provided useful information regarding the process, the board DOES have a cadre of people who DO help.

One day at a time folks. Let the crucifiction continue.

 

[AdlerDriver]

I did take a minute to duck out and catch all that flak. I never expected my comment to have that reaction. I still think most of you misunderstood me but I think it would be futile at this juncture to try and convince you otherwise.

The lame warnings of 'you'll never make it to UPT with that attitude' will be taken for what they're worth; to each their own, we agree to disagree. I'll keep y'all posted on where I end up just for the principle of it. .

Hindsight,

Most people on this forum are using it to stay informed, exchange info and have some fun. It’s also an opportunity to help other pilots. It’s not a perfect medium and due to the written word, there is certainly opportunity for miscommunication.



We can only take what you write at face value. If you didn’t mean to come across a certain way, take the reaction as a lesson. You might want to spend a little more time picking your words and statements. Your surprise at the general reaction to your post speaks volumes.



Rather than automatically “bow up” over some criticism, why don’t you attempt to digest it and use it to improve. Automatically characterizing a warning as “lame” is not smart. Those warnings are coming from seasoned veterans of a training course you hope to enter and complete. Why wouldn’t you heed advice from someone who is attempting to help you avoid mistakes they’ve personally made or seen others make first hand? UPT is all about effectively using daily criticism and avoiding repeat mistakes. It’s also a team effort. You are going to have classmates and instructors on your team. If you alienate members of your team with an attitude, your experiences at UPT will be miserable and possibly unsuccessful. There’s nothing wrong with a little self-confidence. The simple truth is, what you’ve done prior to starting UPT and follow on fighter training doesn’t mean sh!t. I’ve known outstanding fighter pilots who flew hour #1 when they started their USAF training. I had a dude in my class with 2000 prior civilian hours washout. Your instructors are not going to care about what you’ve done before UPT. So, in their eyes, since you don’t know sh!t, you’ve got nothing to be copping an attitude about. You most definitely don’t want to pi$$ them off. They will hold your future in their hands. They are going to want to see a student striving to excel, willing to accept criticism and who knows he has a lot to learn. You’re not coming across like that in your posts.

…………..As for everything else, I understand the sentiment of the senior folks when it comes to 'allowing' someone with 'little' experience to speak up about a particular subject. I didn't know one had to be a 10-yr Guard veteran to chime on this f$ckin' board. Furthermore, being treated as if one's insight is de facto 'talking out of your @$$' because of one's relative early position in the process is utter bullsh@t, everybody was in my shoes at one point. If I was claiming to be in a position of 1st hand knowledge and assert things you disagree with, then I see how I may have been more diligent in my coments. But openly disclosing I'm still in the application process and y'all still give me the 'you don't have the right to breathe' bullshoot, please.....

You are missing this point by a wide margin. This forum isn’t about squashing someone with little experience who wants to “speak up about a particular subject”. How you speak up is the issue here. I’d still give a 20-yr Guard veteran some sh!t if he posted what you did. It was disrespectful and arrogant. Maybe the guy was whining. Many pilots manage to find things to complain about no matter how great their lives are. So what.



You weren’t treated like you were talking out you’re a$$ because you’re inexperienced. People reacted to the content of your post. Period. You’re right, everyone was in your shoes once, but some of us managed to accept our inexperience. There’s nothing wrong with lack of experience. There is something wrong with acting like you have it.



You were claiming to be in a position of first hand knowledge. You told us your first hand account of the story about the whining pilot and your opinion of his comments. You then went on to deduce that if he could make it, you could be “Yeager”. That is obviously not a valid conclusion and you were “talking out you’re a$$”. The fact that you’re “still in the application process” is not a valid excuse for being a tool. It’s probably a very compelling reason to avoid being one and maybe try to change your attitude. Interviewers, whether Guard or otherwise, are pretty good at seeing through a layer of BS you put on top of your normal attitudes and personality.



Just a little un-sugarcoated, friendly advice and observations. I have no reason to wish you anything other than tailwinds and good luck. Hopefully you’ll get where you want to be.

 

[PilotOnTheRise]

In the grand scheme of things, I think it is important to realize that each individual, whether flying F-16's or some other aircraft for the USAF, or instructing in a 150 at their local flight school, has the right to complain. It is human nature, whether your in a high position others are striving for, or the lowest of the starting points; things could always be better.

Truth is, regardless of what you are flying, or who you are flying for, if your not flying the hours you would like, there will be complaints. Be thankful in the long run for these complaints --- think about it --- most people who show up to work and don't actually have to 'do their job' celebrate. Pilots are one of the few jobs out there, if not the only one, that want to show up and do their job, and when they cannot, they complain. Ever heard of some secretary or some administrator somewhere complaining that they didn't have to answer the phones that day, or do hours of paperwork?

By the way, I don't think most people strive to fly for the USAF/ANG simply as a time-building stepping stone to the airlines.

 

[AIR2MUD]

Just a little un-sugarcoated, friendly advice and observations. I have no reason to wish you anything other than tailwinds and good luck. Hopefully you’ll get where you want to be.

Adler -

Couldn't have said it better myself. I thought about a re-attack on Hindsight's latest post, but had given up and didn't think him worth the effort.

Maybe he'll get a clue after reading your latest. Just like Pkober, I had a crusty old attack pilot LTC-type tell me once, "Never miss the opportunity to shut the f^#@ up." Some of the best advice I've ever been given, besides, "Two," "Bingo," and "Lead, it appears you're on fire."

If Hindsight would actually learn to follow that advice, instead of continually relearning it (as he said), then maybe he would get somewhere.

 

[Mud Eagle]

it isn't because I don't know what I'm talking about, it's because it's futile to try and have a productive exchange with all this Type A 'if you don't fly the F-16' stench on this board.

No, that's not the point. If you want to fly a fighter in the USAF, then you're going to have to play by the rules. One rule is that #2 shuts his pie-hole and listens to #1 -- even if he all ready knows, and even if he all ready knows *better*.

A lesson that you ought to be taking from this whole deal is that there's more to the fighter game than good hands (and even that, at your stage, is an unknown). There is also a 'good attitude' that goes along with it, and playing by the rules is one important aspect of having that good attitude.

I see a lot of different types of pilots come through IFF, with a wide range of skills. The ones who have a tough time are the ones who can't seem to grasp their position as "twop!", regardless of how much time they have in their logbook and in what type of aircraft.

As someone who seems intent on flying a fighter, I'd recommend being in receive-only mode for a while until you've actually accomplished something -- like at least being mission qualified in a MWS aircraft.

 

[pkober]

Hindsight,

Good luck in what ever you end up flying. Get a thicker skin and use some of the advise posted in this forum.

With that said, I'm out.

CLAMBAKE

 

[Korgs130]

pkober,


Zoid would have had a field day with this dude. I'm still laughing just thinking about it. Peace!

 

[pkober]

Korgs,

They broke the mold with Zoid.

Clambake

 

[AlbieF15]

Pilot on the rise...

My name should actually be "pilot on the mend...", but when back in action I fly in the active duty F15 schoolhouse at Tyndall. The F16s at Luke and the F15s at Tyndall both have part-time guys who fly and support the mission. The Luke guys are Reservists, the Tyndall guys are Florida Guardsmen, and there are some organizational differences...but basically the same job. I am blessed to be here and enjoy in very much. There are also a very small number of reservists at Eglin and Langley...I won't reveal their names here but if they choose to pipe in they can offer their perspective on that gig.

 

[PilotOnTheRise]

Pilot on the rise...

My name should actually be "pilot on the mend...", but when back in action I fly in the active duty F15 schoolhouse at Tyndall. The F16s at Luke and the F15s at Tyndall both have part-time guys who fly and support the mission. The Luke guys are Reservists, the Tyndall guys are Florida Guardsmen, and there are some organizational differences...but basically the same job. I am blessed to be here and enjoy in very much. There are also a very small number of reservists at Eglin and Langley...I won't reveal their names here but if they choose to pipe in they can offer their perspective on that gig.

I just joined the Guard; 159th FW in New Orleans, which is an F-15 unit, so I am hoping to be flying the Eagle eventually. I officially signed up last Friday, and will not be leaving for basic training or tech. school until January, but I am excited. I will be an F-15 Crew Chief, so part of my tech. school will be at Tyndall. How is it at Tyndall?

 

[SupaFly]

Like the "Never pass up an opportunity..." quote. In the navy, I was taught as a nugget that, for the first six months, don't talk. For the next six months, speak only when spoken too. If you read between the lines, it's good advice to a FNG who's still got a lot to learn, good and bad, from the salty dogs.

 

[ToiletDuck]

what kind of flight time do you guys see per month? 10-20? Less or more? I've been curious too as i'm about to graduate from college and i'm working on my multi and CFI.

 

[SupaFly]

I have averaged about 15 hours a month flying mostly the Tomcat over 9 years of active duty flying, with more recently. The flying can be hot and cold. On deployment, it's fairly common to see 30-40+ hrs/month or even more in combat, but there is usually a lull after a squadron returns. It also fluctuates depending on what you do for shore tour, and tactical jets definitely have some of the lowest flying times of any community in the Navy -- but I sign for the jet every time I go fly.

Supa

 

[Oh-ryan]

Hindsight,

Fly Navy my friend... Fly Navy! Sure our planes are old and we only have basic cable in our BOQ rooms (if we're lucky), but we have a very low quota of premadonnas.

flame on!

Let me get you guys started... yes, I fly P-3's... yes they suck... let's see... oh yeah... my mom... I miss anything fellas?

O-r
POLITICIANS & DIAPERS BOTH NEED TO BE CHANGED, AND FOR THE SAME REASON

 

[pkober]

Yeah, your engines are upside down.

CLAMBAKE

 

[Oh-ryan]

Well played pkober... well played. I didn't see that one coming. I even got a chuckle out of it. Hindsight, I stand corrected... them some funny premadonnas! Fly safe boys!

O-r
POLITICIANS & DIAPERS BOTH NEED TO BE CHANGED, AND FOR THE SAME REASON

 

[pkober]

Thanks,

I don't think a Guard Herc pilot has ever been called a premadonna. We are usually the ones with ketchup stains on our bags.

CLAMBAKE

 

[SupaFly]

No, the primadonnas are the fighter guys who insist on the life support dudes carrying their helmets to the airplane. O-r, at least you're in the BOQ, with cable and telephone and per diem. I'll be giving Uncle Sam $7 a day back for the next six months to pay for the triangle fish and over-cooked spaghetti they feed me on the carrier. At least my under-roos get cleaned in fresh water instead of salt water.

Clambake, I got stuck at Little Rock AFB for a few days a couple of months ago. We somehow got assigned General's quarter at the Q for a night. Dem r sum nice digs down der in Arkansas!

 

[Almerick07]

I'll chime in on my experience; I am currently talking/schmoozing my way into an AF reserve unit. It is a total of 60 days a year to get a good year (counts toward retirement) but like most units they understand your priorities (family, civ job, then unit) and will excuse you from drill and what not if there are more important things going on in your life that weekend. It is an E-3 unit and they are very laid back and currency is not as back breaking as an eagle or viper unit, therefor much less required flying. Both reserve and guard units are golden nuggets...take it if it is offered. I am also planning on applying to the Air Force through OTS when the time comes and am in the process of applying for the Navy's bachelor degree completion program just to keep my options open. Hopefully after all the dust settles (CFI hours, UPT, spin up) I'll have a nice civilian job waiting for me at possibly airtran or jet blue....wink wink! The way I see it guard and reserve units are all the pros of the military without the cons. Bottom line is stay away from the military if you dont have that desire in your heart to do anything to protect your country; besides that always bring a good case of beer.

 

[Oh-ryan]

I'll chime in on my experience; I am currently talking/schmoozing my way into an AF reserve unit. It is a total of 60 days a year to get a good year (counts toward retirement) but like most units they understand your priorities (family, civ job, then unit) and will excuse you from drill and what not if there are more important things going on in your life that weekend. It is an E-3 unit and they are very laid back and currency is not as back breaking as an eagle or viper unit, therefor much less required flying. Both reserve and guard units are golden nuggets...take it if it is offered. I am also planning on applying to the Air Force through OTS when the time comes and am in the process of applying for the Navy's bachelor degree completion program just to keep my options open. Hopefully after all the dust settles (CFI hours, UPT, spin up) I'll have a nice civilian job waiting for me at possibly airtran or jet blue....wink wink! The way I see it guard and reserve units are all the pros of the military without the cons. Bottom line is stay away from the military if you dont have that desire in your heart to do anything to protect your country; besides that always bring a good case of beer.

Almerick07,
You may have a desire to serve your country, but reading your post sounds like you are only willing to do the bare minimum. The military is about sacrifice my friend... active duty, ANG, or reserves. Do us a favor and go VFR direct to Airtran or jetBlue (wink, wink).

 

[hindsight2020]

I'll chime in on my experience; I am currently talking/schmoozing my way into an AF reserve unit. It is a total of 60 days a year to get a good year (counts toward retirement) but like most units they understand your priorities (family, civ job, then unit) and will excuse you from drill and what not if there are more important things going on in your life that weekend. It is an E-3 unit and they are very laid back and currency is not as back breaking as an eagle or viper unit, therefor much less required flying. Both reserve and guard units are golden nuggets...take it if it is offered. I am also planning on applying to the Air Force through OTS when the time comes and am in the process of applying for the Navy's bachelor degree completion program just to keep my options open. Hopefully after all the dust settles (CFI hours, UPT, spin up) I'll have a nice civilian job waiting for me at possibly airtran or jet blue....wink wink! The way I see it guard and reserve units are all the pros of the military without the cons. Bottom line is stay away from the military if you dont have that desire in your heart to do anything to protect your country; besides that always bring a good case of beer.

And y'all stomped on me like a f$ckin' piñata on cinco de mayo? WTF
But, I digress. I'll take the advice of Mud Eagle to heart and go receive-only mode until I've actually done anything of consequence with my life ....like when (IF I meant IF!!) I'm FTU complete or the like....

 

[AlbieF15]

Believe it or not, a lot of civilian pilots get crushed in UPT. It usually isn't flying skills that get them eliminated, its a culmination of a bad, self serving attitude burning up any green stamps they have looong before they might really need to cash one or two in after a bad day.

Highsight is learning. You obviously missed something. EVERY time I flew into some god-forsaken no-fly container there were some AWACS bros there doing their thing. They took off before me, landed after me, and ate in the same crappy chow halls and slept in the same crappy tents or Qs. An active duty Tinker guy in the 90s might be gone 220 + days a year. Those same guys are now your ADOs, DOs, and Commanders. If they pick up the vibe you sent out here on the internet, I'd say its a safe bet your time in UPT and/or your gaining unit won't be nearly as much fun as you think it will be. You are a phone call away from being sent to combat when you are in the ANG/Reserves, and you cannot forget that. When that call comes, there is no "geez, I've got plans, an upgrade at my airline, etc etc" that will change your life for the next 30 days to 2 years. Enjoy the good side of the reserves, but understand WHY you are there and what those obligations really mean. Last year 2 guys at FDX were killed in fighter mishaps--there is still a cost of doing business in the combat or combat training arena, even if you are not active duty.

 

[Almerick07]

Almerick07,
You may have a desire to serve your country, but reading your post sounds like you are only willing to do the bare minimum. The military is about sacrifice my friend... active duty, ANG, or reserves. Do us a favor and go VFR direct to Airtran or jetBlue (wink, wink).

I was stating the facts, the only reason I am doing the reserves opposed to AD was for the sake of loved ones, my fiance...whose dad flew AD (AWACS) and she hated the lifestyle growing up. Honestly I would love to go full time at the unit, that is my ultimate goal. Unfortunatly I cant plan on that so I need to plan on something else. I spent 2 years in AFROTC before I made this decision which as of 6 months ago I knew nothing about, all I was trying to do is give other kids like me out there the facts about it. Atleast I have this option and still get to serve my country. Not to mention,

I am also planning on applying to the Air Force through OTS when the time comes and am in the process of applying for the Navy's bachelor degree completion program just to keep my options open.

Maybe that has something to do with my girl??? I didnt know yall wanted a love story but bottom line is loosen up, we're all here for the same reason.

 

[Oh-ryan]

I was stating the facts, the only reason I am doing the reserves opposed to AD was for the sake of loved ones, my fiance...whose dad flew AD (AWACS) and she hated the lifestyle growing up. Honestly I would love to go full time at the unit, that is my ultimate goal. Unfortunatly I cant plan on that so I need to plan on something else. I spent 2 years in AFROTC before I made this decision which as of 6 months ago I knew nothing about, all I was trying to do is give other kids like me out there the facts about it. Atleast I have this option and still get to serve my country. Not to mention,

Almerick07,
I hope the ANG or the Reserves turns out to be what you think it is, but having spent over 10 years (and still counting) on active duty I feel I am educated enough to warn you that it isn't. It may have been in years past, but nowadays, people, planes and parts are spread pretty thin. You may want to go back a re-read Albie's post about getting "the call" to serve (well said Albie) and prepare your fiance for the lifestyle of a someone in today's ANG/Reserves... or get a new fiance.

And another thing... I would wait til after you land from your first mission anywhere other than your local FBO before you start telling those who have "been there and done that" to "loosen up".

Alright... I am done with this soapbox. Anybody else need it?