Flying for the Air National Guard

[psysicx]

So Adler how is it hard to manage family time with the airlines and guard?

 

[AdlerDriver]

So Adler how is it hard to manage family time with the airlines and guard?

It's a sacrifice but it's also not impossible. Most guys drop at least one airline trip to work at the Guard. That way, you're not giving up real days off to do your Guard duty and you're home at night with the family (unless the duty is a deployment). Dropping more trips is situation dependant. Some guys will work on their airline days off but that definitely can hurt the family time. Most likely the average Guard pilot is going to do a little of both. This used to mean losing some pay if you were at all senior at an airline (Guard pay was less than the airlines). The way things are going now it's probably a wash (or you may make more at the Guard). Cargo/Tanker type units have to go TDY more regularly and may tend to spend more time away while fulfilling their Guard commitment. I can't speak much to their schedule.

 

[AIR2MUD]

Personal rant: I find it interesting when some people get the sheer luck to get to the single-seat cockpit and start b!tching when their time building isn't skyrocketing. Jesus, if ya wanted to fly for the airlines you should have gone heavy, leave those d@mn Viper/Hog/Eagle slots for folks like me who have done everything up to this point to do single seat flying and have no desire for airline jobs. Now, not all 121 pilots who part-time as fighter pilots are like that kid, so I will give that to balance the argument. As I was looking at that kid go on his little soapbox I stared at him and said to myself "sheesh, if this kid made it past Vipers I'm gonna be f$ckin Chuck Yeager" so I guess I got some reassurance out of it

Hey Jack@$$....

Until you've been there, done that, and got the t-shirt...much like that 'kid' you were referring to...do us all a favor and just shut up and color.

This is a small, tight-knit community, and if you want a snowball's chance in he!! of ever getting a slot, your mindset better do a hasty 180 pronto!

 

[hindsight2020]

why is it that people get so upset about a comment that doesn't pertain to them?

Go re-read the post, internalize it doesn't pertain to you (unless you're a whiner that shares the same views as that LT) and kiss my @ss, I'll go color at your mom's, punk.

 

[psysicx]

Is it easy to drop trips? Or does your airline understand that you fly in the guard?

 

[AdlerDriver]

My experience from interviewing so far is that , in the case of fighter units, flying is pretty slim. The pilot who drove a group of interviewees to watch the -16's take-off (among which was yours truly) was one of the two most junior pilots and constantly alluded to the fact that all they get is the minimum sortie count per month to stay current, the rest of it is non-flying shenanigans. I personally thought it was still better than to not be flying an F-16 at all, but I understood his POV.

Dude,

It sounds like you’re drawing quite a few conclusions from your little tour of a “Fighting Falcon” unit. It sounds like that unit might have an over-manning issue. Perhaps the leadership is doing a bad job managing their flying hours and hiring. If they are benching their “junior” pilots (i.e. inexperienced Lts) and letting experienced guys fly, the unit definitely lacks leadership. Those Lts are exactly who needs to be flying, the experienced guys can suck it up. That’s not how a well run fighter squadron does things.

I guess the answer to the question is that, provided you're done with seasoning, it is absolutely easy to meet Guard commitments and have the civilian job, whether it's flying or not. Consequently, I think that would translate into the notion that Guard bumming is not an advisable pursuit if you're in a fighter unit.

Guard bumming works quite well if your unit is manned properly. It also helps to have experienced leaders who know how to find days and dollars to pay their pilots in need. A good unit can always find a way to pay its pilots. It also helps if the whole unit is not furloughed from an airline. We had at least 12 pilots furloughed from UAL and no one went without a paycheck.

Personal rant: I find it interesting when some people get the sheer luck to get to the single-seat cockpit and start b!tching when their time building isn't skyrocketing. Jesus, if ya wanted to fly for the airlines you should have gone heavy, leave those d@mn Viper/Hog/Eagle slots for folks like me who have done everything up to this point to do single seat flying and have no desire for airline jobs. Now, not all 121 pilots who part-time as fighter pilots are like that kid, so I will give that to balance the argument. As I was looking at that kid go on his little soapbox I stared at him and said to myself "sheesh, if this kid made it past Vipers I'm gonna be f$ckin Chuck Yeager" so I guess I got some reassurance out of it

What exactly have you been doing to qualify as “doing everything up to this point to do single seat flying”? If you still meet the age requirements to go to UPT, I seriously doubt you are old enough to be calling a current F-16 pilot “kid”. Seen one too many episode of “Black Sheep Squadron”, eh “Pappy”?



I doubt the pilot in question started flying F-16s just to build time for the airlines. He was probably just b!tching because he wanted to fly. I have to question your logic that says: I’m not as big a “tool” as that guy so I’m going to be Chuck Yeager. I’ve known a few pilots who lacked some people skills and could still flying the jet like a wizard. After a few years in this business, I would recommend letting your flying talk for you and judge other pilots the same way. With 250 hours of light airplane time, if I talked at all, it would be at a whisper . If you really want to be a fighter pilot, lose the attitude until you have some wings and experience to back it up. Just my .02

why is it that people get so upset about a comment that doesn't pertain to them?…….

Because this isn’t a 1v1 forum. If you post something here, expect others than your target to read it and have an opinion. You basically posted scoffing at a pilot who has proven himself enough to be in the position you strive to hold. If you don’t see a slight problem with that, you probably should give up your quest now. Your attitude will doom you to failure in UPT, never mind the demands of the Fighter Training Unit.



Good Luck

 

[AdlerDriver]

Is it easy to drop trips? Or does your airline understand that you fly in the guard?

Most Majors are very familiar with the Guard. You just make a call and tell them the days of your duty. The Guard unit sends a letter or copy of orders and they put the Mil days in your schedule. If you had a trip on those days it goes away. You obviously don't get paid for the trip. Actually, if you're at American, they can drop 4 days a month without losing pay. Most others just drop the trip and it's pay.

 

[pkober]

Adler,

Well said !!!!

Is AA still doing the 4 day a month for military? That was an awesome deal. I haven't flown there in over two years and thought they lost that in the contract changes.

CLAMBAKE

 

[AdlerDriver]

Adler,

Well said !!!!

Is AA still doing the 4 day a month for military? That was an awesome deal. I haven't flown there in over two years and thought they lost that in the contract changes.

CLAMBAKE

I'm just repeating what AA pilots in my unit have said - I was a UAL dude. I had not heard that it had been negotiated away. I have not been following that stuff too closely lately. Found a new permanent (hopefully) home at big purple and have had a rapid drop in my "give a sh!t-factor" about my former life .

 

[AIR2MUD]

why is it that people get so upset about a comment that doesn't pertain to them?

I'm not upset, I'm simply covering that LT's ass because in his attempt to tell you how it is you thought he was whining. Check the attitude and shut your pie hole, because I've seen people like you come and go at UPT boards, with a huge emphasis on the GO.

Go re-read the post, internalize it doesn't pertain to you (unless you're a whiner that shares the same views as that LT) and kiss my @ss, I'll go color at your mom's, punk.

Hey, let's get off moms, 'cause I just got off yours. In your version of life called Utopia, there's no way a LT who gets to fly Vipers should bitch about anything. Well, welcome to reality. You have no idea what it's like, 'cause you ain't been there yet, boy! This guy was being honest about the real deal to you and a bunch of other prospective UPT applicants, and you took it as whining. You shouldn't get on any soapbox unless you know of what you speak. If you can't realize when you've been called out for talking out of your a$$, then you obviously don't have what it takes to make it through IFF or the RTU - should you get that far.

Good luck...you're gonna need it.

 

[AdlerDriver]

........On the topic of gratitude, I stand corrected. What's funny about the "hopefully some one doesn't pull that quote" comment you made is that I've already had the opportunity to VOLUNTEER it at interviews. Not only that, but opportunity to ELABORATE on it. They don't have those fighter/heavy sensitivities, I'm not scared of telling them I don't have inclinations to fly 121 and that my civilian aviation career expectations lie in other flying jobs and pursuits, more in tune with my desires and motivations...there is life,work, flying, and aviation outside 121 you know......

2 other comments. The lack of true "part-time" as a traditional Guardsman has already been covered. As I read the above, I have become curious. What other civilian careers do you have lined up that will allow you the time-off and schedule flexibility to meet the demands of a ANG fighter pilot position? I'm not saying you can't, I'm just curious what you've got?

One final point: Do you think your "SA-low" light might be on with regard to your post that has drawn all this attention and return fire? Don't you think there's a chance that someone affiliated with the Guard unit you're pledging might be a member on this forum(or know someone who is)? Do you think they might be able to look at the aircraft you've flown, your description of the trip to watch the aircraft land, your recounting of the F-16 pilot's remarks and figure out who you are? Unless they've got a revolving door of applicants (not likely), I'd say the Pk is pretty high. It would probably $uck to see a copy of that post in front of the Squadron Commander if you go back for an interview, eh Mr. Yeager?. I'd call you back just for the fun of watching you try to explain it - but then again, I'm not a nice man .

 

[pkober]

I think hindsight is using his hind sight and hiding under a rock.

 

[AlbieF15]

SA comes from experience and he just got some....

I'd say he's a very trainable chimp. Maybe he'll come to the Eagle one day and we'll get to fly together. Good luck kid!

 

[pkober]

I think Hindsight learned a valuable lessson.

A qoute from one of our former Navs is appropriate for Hindsight. He would give this one gem to all new LT's in the squadron. All the credit for this quote is his.

Hindsight if you are still lurking, learn this and live it for the next few years.

"Never pass up the opportunity to shut the f*&^ up !"

Good luck

CLAMBAKE

 

[trashhauler]

One more thing about flying for an airline and the Guard/Reserve at the same time. It's much easier to live either at your airline base or near your military unit, otherwise the family time is non-existent.

Because a lot of Guard/Reserve units want to hire locals, it might be easier to live there and commute to the airlines initially. Also, you won't have enough flight hours after training to get an airline job, so if you live near your unit, you can pick up training at the last minute. When I was a bum, I got called at least a couple of times a month at lunch time, asking if I could come in and fly that evening.

Many airlines are also going to preferential bidding systems, which means they will give you any time off for military that you need, but you won't get any pay from the airline while you're at military duty (for dropped trips).

Another reason it's good to live near your unit, many times a military flight training period will only be 4-6 hours and you can have the rest of the day at home.

Hope this helps.

 

[PilotOnTheRise]

SA comes from experience and he just got some....

I'd say he's a very trainable chimp. Maybe he'll come to the Eagle one day and we'll get to fly together. Good luck kid!

What unit do you fly the Eagle for?

 

[hindsight2020]

I did take a minute to duck out and catch all that flak. I never expected my comment to have that reaction. I still think most of you misunderstood me but I think it would be futile at this juncture to try and convince you otherwise.

The lame warnings of 'you'll never make it to UPT with that attitude' will be taken for what they're worth; to each their own, we agree to disagree. I'll keep y'all posted on where I end up just for the principle of it.

As for everything else, I understand the sentiment of the senior folks when it comes to 'allowing' someone with 'little' experience to speak up about a particular subject. I didn't know one had to be a 10-yr Guard veteran to chime on this f$ckin' board. Furthermore, being treated as if one's insight is de facto 'talking out of your @$$' because of one's relative early position in the process is utter bullsh@t, everybody was in my shoes at one point. If I was claiming to be in a position of 1st hand knowledge and assert things you disagree with, then I see how I may have been more diligent in my coments. But openly disclosing I'm still in the application process and y'all still give me the 'you don't have the right to breathe' bullshit, please.....

As for "never waste a good time to shut up" I agree, it's probably the one lesson I continue to learn, but it isn't because I don't know what I'm talking about, it's because it's futile to try and have a productive exchange with all this Type A 'if you don't fly the F-16' stench on this board. I'll probably refrain from contributing anything, point my nose into the wind and continue to work on my sh$t; this ego-peddling exchange makes time at work go by for sure, but it doesn't really contribute sh%t in the end. I do thank those senior folks who HAVE provided useful information regarding the process, the board DOES have a cadre of people who DO help.

One day at a time folks. Let the crucifiction continue.

 

[AdlerDriver]

I did take a minute to duck out and catch all that flak. I never expected my comment to have that reaction. I still think most of you misunderstood me but I think it would be futile at this juncture to try and convince you otherwise.

The lame warnings of 'you'll never make it to UPT with that attitude' will be taken for what they're worth; to each their own, we agree to disagree. I'll keep y'all posted on where I end up just for the principle of it. .

Hindsight,

Most people on this forum are using it to stay informed, exchange info and have some fun. It’s also an opportunity to help other pilots. It’s not a perfect medium and due to the written word, there is certainly opportunity for miscommunication.



We can only take what you write at face value. If you didn’t mean to come across a certain way, take the reaction as a lesson. You might want to spend a little more time picking your words and statements. Your surprise at the general reaction to your post speaks volumes.



Rather than automatically “bow up” over some criticism, why don’t you attempt to digest it and use it to improve. Automatically characterizing a warning as “lame” is not smart. Those warnings are coming from seasoned veterans of a training course you hope to enter and complete. Why wouldn’t you heed advice from someone who is attempting to help you avoid mistakes they’ve personally made or seen others make first hand? UPT is all about effectively using daily criticism and avoiding repeat mistakes. It’s also a team effort. You are going to have classmates and instructors on your team. If you alienate members of your team with an attitude, your experiences at UPT will be miserable and possibly unsuccessful. There’s nothing wrong with a little self-confidence. The simple truth is, what you’ve done prior to starting UPT and follow on fighter training doesn’t mean sh!t. I’ve known outstanding fighter pilots who flew hour #1 when they started their USAF training. I had a dude in my class with 2000 prior civilian hours washout. Your instructors are not going to care about what you’ve done before UPT. So, in their eyes, since you don’t know sh!t, you’ve got nothing to be copping an attitude about. You most definitely don’t want to pi$$ them off. They will hold your future in their hands. They are going to want to see a student striving to excel, willing to accept criticism and who knows he has a lot to learn. You’re not coming across like that in your posts.

…………..As for everything else, I understand the sentiment of the senior folks when it comes to 'allowing' someone with 'little' experience to speak up about a particular subject. I didn't know one had to be a 10-yr Guard veteran to chime on this f$ckin' board. Furthermore, being treated as if one's insight is de facto 'talking out of your @$$' because of one's relative early position in the process is utter bullsh@t, everybody was in my shoes at one point. If I was claiming to be in a position of 1st hand knowledge and assert things you disagree with, then I see how I may have been more diligent in my coments. But openly disclosing I'm still in the application process and y'all still give me the 'you don't have the right to breathe' bullshoot, please.....

You are missing this point by a wide margin. This forum isn’t about squashing someone with little experience who wants to “speak up about a particular subject”. How you speak up is the issue here. I’d still give a 20-yr Guard veteran some sh!t if he posted what you did. It was disrespectful and arrogant. Maybe the guy was whining. Many pilots manage to find things to complain about no matter how great their lives are. So what.



You weren’t treated like you were talking out you’re a$$ because you’re inexperienced. People reacted to the content of your post. Period. You’re right, everyone was in your shoes once, but some of us managed to accept our inexperience. There’s nothing wrong with lack of experience. There is something wrong with acting like you have it.



You were claiming to be in a position of first hand knowledge. You told us your first hand account of the story about the whining pilot and your opinion of his comments. You then went on to deduce that if he could make it, you could be “Yeager”. That is obviously not a valid conclusion and you were “talking out you’re a$$”. The fact that you’re “still in the application process” is not a valid excuse for being a tool. It’s probably a very compelling reason to avoid being one and maybe try to change your attitude. Interviewers, whether Guard or otherwise, are pretty good at seeing through a layer of BS you put on top of your normal attitudes and personality.



Just a little un-sugarcoated, friendly advice and observations. I have no reason to wish you anything other than tailwinds and good luck. Hopefully you’ll get where you want to be.

 

[PilotOnTheRise]

In the grand scheme of things, I think it is important to realize that each individual, whether flying F-16's or some other aircraft for the USAF, or instructing in a 150 at their local flight school, has the right to complain. It is human nature, whether your in a high position others are striving for, or the lowest of the starting points; things could always be better.

Truth is, regardless of what you are flying, or who you are flying for, if your not flying the hours you would like, there will be complaints. Be thankful in the long run for these complaints --- think about it --- most people who show up to work and don't actually have to 'do their job' celebrate. Pilots are one of the few jobs out there, if not the only one, that want to show up and do their job, and when they cannot, they complain. Ever heard of some secretary or some administrator somewhere complaining that they didn't have to answer the phones that day, or do hours of paperwork?

By the way, I don't think most people strive to fly for the USAF/ANG simply as a time-building stepping stone to the airlines.

 

[AIR2MUD]

Just a little un-sugarcoated, friendly advice and observations. I have no reason to wish you anything other than tailwinds and good luck. Hopefully you’ll get where you want to be.

Adler -

Couldn't have said it better myself. I thought about a re-attack on Hindsight's latest post, but had given up and didn't think him worth the effort.

Maybe he'll get a clue after reading your latest. Just like Pkober, I had a crusty old attack pilot LTC-type tell me once, "Never miss the opportunity to shut the f^#@ up." Some of the best advice I've ever been given, besides, "Two," "Bingo," and "Lead, it appears you're on fire."

If Hindsight would actually learn to follow that advice, instead of continually relearning it (as he said), then maybe he would get somewhere.