Flying for the Air National Guard

[pkober]

As a Guard Baby (off the street UPT hire) I can tell you that meeting your ANG flying requirement is getting harder every year.

If you go to a heavy unit, expect to not only meet all training requirements but deploy overseas as well. Currently they have cut our flying but increased our training requirements. Some tool, AKA Active Duty, higher up in the food chain can't figure out that eventually people will say "uncle".

Most pilots are saying that if they can't meet there squares than "oh well, give me more flying!!"

Hey Hindsight !!

I would say that any cockpit in the ANG is a lucky job. Plenty of good fighter guys will be knocking on the doors of heavy units after the BRAC. Hopefully some one doesn't pull that quote about the airlines out of there pocket during an interview and ask you to explain it. Chill out and enjoy anything you fly because you may be one of those folks knocking on our door one day.

CLAMBAKE

 

[hindsight2020]

I think you misunderstood my comment. I was just alluding to the whining I perceived from this kid who happened to be in a position I've been trying to attain for as long as I can remember. The fact that it happens to be a fighter slot should be incidental to you; don't start the fighter/heavy thing, I wasn't suggesting that.

On the topic of gratitude, I stand corrected. What's funny about the "hopefully some one doesn't pull that quote" comment you made is that I've already had the opportunity to VOLUNTEER it at interviews. Not only that, but opportunity to ELABORATE on it. They don't have those fighter/heavy sensitivities, I'm not scared of telling them I don't have inclinations to fly 121 and that my civilian aviation career expectations lie in other flying jobs and pursuits, more in tune with my desires and motivations...there is life,work, flying, and aviation outside 121 you know......

I've been upfront and honest about that particular personal and professional preference to them. As a matter of fact, they actually appreciate a person who comes to the interview and answers the question of "what's your plan" with an answer OTHER than "weeeaalll, I was hoping to bum aorund, maybe get and AGR posit and wait for Delta to call". And considering there are regional and major guys alike at these boards who have personally expressed their complete satisfaction with the answers I've provided to that particular issue you raise I don't feel one bit threatened by your implication that I'm burning bridges. I've never had a major guy get sore cause I don't want to fly 121. Not to mention that 121 hopefuls are already surplus enough to make my point moot.

I do apologize if my comment shafed you the wrong way, I wasn't trying to suggest anything else other than what my impressions were of that particular guy and what I considered to be ingratitude on his part, not mine.

No hard feelings bud. I'll go chill now

 

[psysicx]

How long does a typical fighter sortie take from start to finish?

 

[pkober]

Hindsight,

I've been doing this for a long time. I have learned long ago not to have a heavy/fighter thing. You can usually tell the quality of a pilot not by what he flies but by how he flies. In the end the ANG/AFRES guys usually finish well above the AD students in UPT. So the type of airplane they fly doesn't matter.

As far as the job goes, it's good to have the desire for a fulltime ANG job. They are good jobs and if you can get one take it. I remember interviewing for my pilot slot, 1992, and answering the same way you did. When the jobs didn't happen I was applying at all the airlines. Don't disregard the 121 stuff. It's a good life, especially the furloughs.

Peace, out

CLAMBAKE

 

[AdlerDriver]

How long does a typical fighter sortie take from start to finish?

I don't think there's such thing as a "typical" sortie. If it's BFM (1v1 Basic Fighter Manuevers) and your MOA is close to your base, it might be a 30 minute sortie. If it's a 4v8 with a tanker, you might be looking at 2 hours. Probably the average is 1.0-1.3 hours.
That's only the flying part. The 1 hour brief starts 2 hours prior to takeoff. The debrief will be something like 2-8 hours depending on the complexity of the mission.

 

[psysicx]

So Adler how is it hard to manage family time with the airlines and guard?

 

[AdlerDriver]

So Adler how is it hard to manage family time with the airlines and guard?

It's a sacrifice but it's also not impossible. Most guys drop at least one airline trip to work at the Guard. That way, you're not giving up real days off to do your Guard duty and you're home at night with the family (unless the duty is a deployment). Dropping more trips is situation dependant. Some guys will work on their airline days off but that definitely can hurt the family time. Most likely the average Guard pilot is going to do a little of both. This used to mean losing some pay if you were at all senior at an airline (Guard pay was less than the airlines). The way things are going now it's probably a wash (or you may make more at the Guard). Cargo/Tanker type units have to go TDY more regularly and may tend to spend more time away while fulfilling their Guard commitment. I can't speak much to their schedule.

 

[AIR2MUD]

Personal rant: I find it interesting when some people get the sheer luck to get to the single-seat cockpit and start b!tching when their time building isn't skyrocketing. Jesus, if ya wanted to fly for the airlines you should have gone heavy, leave those d@mn Viper/Hog/Eagle slots for folks like me who have done everything up to this point to do single seat flying and have no desire for airline jobs. Now, not all 121 pilots who part-time as fighter pilots are like that kid, so I will give that to balance the argument. As I was looking at that kid go on his little soapbox I stared at him and said to myself "sheesh, if this kid made it past Vipers I'm gonna be f$ckin Chuck Yeager" so I guess I got some reassurance out of it

Hey Jack@$$....

Until you've been there, done that, and got the t-shirt...much like that 'kid' you were referring to...do us all a favor and just shut up and color.

This is a small, tight-knit community, and if you want a snowball's chance in he!! of ever getting a slot, your mindset better do a hasty 180 pronto!

 

[hindsight2020]

why is it that people get so upset about a comment that doesn't pertain to them?

Go re-read the post, internalize it doesn't pertain to you (unless you're a whiner that shares the same views as that LT) and kiss my @ss, I'll go color at your mom's, punk.

 

[psysicx]

Is it easy to drop trips? Or does your airline understand that you fly in the guard?

 

[AdlerDriver]

My experience from interviewing so far is that , in the case of fighter units, flying is pretty slim. The pilot who drove a group of interviewees to watch the -16's take-off (among which was yours truly) was one of the two most junior pilots and constantly alluded to the fact that all they get is the minimum sortie count per month to stay current, the rest of it is non-flying shenanigans. I personally thought it was still better than to not be flying an F-16 at all, but I understood his POV.

Dude,

It sounds like you’re drawing quite a few conclusions from your little tour of a “Fighting Falcon” unit. It sounds like that unit might have an over-manning issue. Perhaps the leadership is doing a bad job managing their flying hours and hiring. If they are benching their “junior” pilots (i.e. inexperienced Lts) and letting experienced guys fly, the unit definitely lacks leadership. Those Lts are exactly who needs to be flying, the experienced guys can suck it up. That’s not how a well run fighter squadron does things.

I guess the answer to the question is that, provided you're done with seasoning, it is absolutely easy to meet Guard commitments and have the civilian job, whether it's flying or not. Consequently, I think that would translate into the notion that Guard bumming is not an advisable pursuit if you're in a fighter unit.

Guard bumming works quite well if your unit is manned properly. It also helps to have experienced leaders who know how to find days and dollars to pay their pilots in need. A good unit can always find a way to pay its pilots. It also helps if the whole unit is not furloughed from an airline. We had at least 12 pilots furloughed from UAL and no one went without a paycheck.

Personal rant: I find it interesting when some people get the sheer luck to get to the single-seat cockpit and start b!tching when their time building isn't skyrocketing. Jesus, if ya wanted to fly for the airlines you should have gone heavy, leave those d@mn Viper/Hog/Eagle slots for folks like me who have done everything up to this point to do single seat flying and have no desire for airline jobs. Now, not all 121 pilots who part-time as fighter pilots are like that kid, so I will give that to balance the argument. As I was looking at that kid go on his little soapbox I stared at him and said to myself "sheesh, if this kid made it past Vipers I'm gonna be f$ckin Chuck Yeager" so I guess I got some reassurance out of it

What exactly have you been doing to qualify as “doing everything up to this point to do single seat flying”? If you still meet the age requirements to go to UPT, I seriously doubt you are old enough to be calling a current F-16 pilot “kid”. Seen one too many episode of “Black Sheep Squadron”, eh “Pappy”?



I doubt the pilot in question started flying F-16s just to build time for the airlines. He was probably just b!tching because he wanted to fly. I have to question your logic that says: I’m not as big a “tool” as that guy so I’m going to be Chuck Yeager. I’ve known a few pilots who lacked some people skills and could still flying the jet like a wizard. After a few years in this business, I would recommend letting your flying talk for you and judge other pilots the same way. With 250 hours of light airplane time, if I talked at all, it would be at a whisper . If you really want to be a fighter pilot, lose the attitude until you have some wings and experience to back it up. Just my .02

why is it that people get so upset about a comment that doesn't pertain to them?…….

Because this isn’t a 1v1 forum. If you post something here, expect others than your target to read it and have an opinion. You basically posted scoffing at a pilot who has proven himself enough to be in the position you strive to hold. If you don’t see a slight problem with that, you probably should give up your quest now. Your attitude will doom you to failure in UPT, never mind the demands of the Fighter Training Unit.



Good Luck

 

[AdlerDriver]

Is it easy to drop trips? Or does your airline understand that you fly in the guard?

Most Majors are very familiar with the Guard. You just make a call and tell them the days of your duty. The Guard unit sends a letter or copy of orders and they put the Mil days in your schedule. If you had a trip on those days it goes away. You obviously don't get paid for the trip. Actually, if you're at American, they can drop 4 days a month without losing pay. Most others just drop the trip and it's pay.

 

[pkober]

Adler,

Well said !!!!

Is AA still doing the 4 day a month for military? That was an awesome deal. I haven't flown there in over two years and thought they lost that in the contract changes.

CLAMBAKE

 

[AdlerDriver]

Adler,

Well said !!!!

Is AA still doing the 4 day a month for military? That was an awesome deal. I haven't flown there in over two years and thought they lost that in the contract changes.

CLAMBAKE

I'm just repeating what AA pilots in my unit have said - I was a UAL dude. I had not heard that it had been negotiated away. I have not been following that stuff too closely lately. Found a new permanent (hopefully) home at big purple and have had a rapid drop in my "give a sh!t-factor" about my former life .

 

[AIR2MUD]

why is it that people get so upset about a comment that doesn't pertain to them?

I'm not upset, I'm simply covering that LT's ass because in his attempt to tell you how it is you thought he was whining. Check the attitude and shut your pie hole, because I've seen people like you come and go at UPT boards, with a huge emphasis on the GO.

Go re-read the post, internalize it doesn't pertain to you (unless you're a whiner that shares the same views as that LT) and kiss my @ss, I'll go color at your mom's, punk.

Hey, let's get off moms, 'cause I just got off yours. In your version of life called Utopia, there's no way a LT who gets to fly Vipers should bitch about anything. Well, welcome to reality. You have no idea what it's like, 'cause you ain't been there yet, boy! This guy was being honest about the real deal to you and a bunch of other prospective UPT applicants, and you took it as whining. You shouldn't get on any soapbox unless you know of what you speak. If you can't realize when you've been called out for talking out of your a$$, then you obviously don't have what it takes to make it through IFF or the RTU - should you get that far.

Good luck...you're gonna need it.