FLOPS Union Busting

[XPGuy]

My prediction is between 65-75%. In the past 2 rotations, I have found ONE pilot that will not vote for the union - and I've probably spoken personally to maybe 30.


Luckily, we only need 409 votes to win this thing, actually less, because we will be losing quite a few pilots between now and the vote.

 

[FLYLOW22]

My prediction is between 65-75%. In the past 2 rotations, I have found ONE pilot that will not vote for the union - and I've probably spoken personally to maybe 30.


Luckily, we only need 409 votes to win this thing, actually less, because we will be losing quite a few pilots between now and the vote.

The initial vote will be north of 75% IMHO. Those will be your hardcore guys who get it. There will likely be a 10-15% margin voting "with the crowd" on future issues. The remaining percentage is made up of the ones who are braindead.

 

[tubelcane]

Let me just say as an Options pilot for over 2 years, they need a union. I don't know if the Teamsters are the answer, but they definitely need some representation. I recently left Options, but want to see things work out for the guys/gals there. It comes down to a simple question, do you think Options management can be trusted and/or cares about your future? Now each person can answer that for themselves. But I think we all know the answer. My only question to the guys who don't support representation is, what are you thinking?

 

[Wyatt]

If the idiots at FLOPs would just spend the money they are wasting on "union busting" on a few programs to keep their workers (specifically the pilot group) happy they could save millions just with the increased productivity alone. No one gives a s**t anymore. If there isnt a increase in percieved QOL soon nothing will turn things around. The union is the last, best hope that FLOPs has to get things back on track. :angryfire

 

[IronManNDFW]

Ok boys & girls. As a resident of North Texas, A$$ licker suckered you in. Publisher is none better.

Pub: Even if "Mother" does sell us, we will still go with a BINDING CONTRACT and we will have protection. The buyers will have to honor that contract, so they will know what they are getting. We know we wil be protected by any other shysters out there like Ford & Harrison.

Now before you trip a breaker, I know that works with a Teamster represented company and it's merger clauses. However consider this, 1108 is not your normal local. It is for Fractional or Condo Jet operations only. That is why we are throwing in with them. Like for Like. Get it?

We will never get a QOL "raise." Shawn has seen the light that if we keep beeting down the pilots they will keep taking it. May I remind you of the Tiear 3 pilots we lost, and the tiear 2 that they want to close down also. I can remember back when I overheard the Presients of both RTA & FO saying "I could run this place better without those damn pilots!" Oh really? Remember before the merger KR told a RTA pilot by the name of Bobby Sides that "He will be the best Union Steward that we could ever expect to have." Yea, and look at what that has brought us too. Not I'm not saying it was all KR's fault, but with "Mother" in control you will only be able to do what she says, and that means makeing working conditions the worst in teh country, including Wal-Mart.

Don't get me started on waste, mismanagement, lies, violations of the FAR's, lack of support from CGF, etc.

So I say VOTE 1108!

 

[AeroBoy]

More fuel for the debate: http://www.ainonline.com/Issues/02_06/02_06_flightoptions_4.htm

 

[netjetwife]

A landslide wouldn't be surprising at all. Once discontent reaches a high enough level to prompt a group of pilots to step up and lead the group, you can figure there's enough support out there to make their efforts worth the time involved. Given the amount of days that frac pilots spend away from home, they tend to be very selective in the causes they donate their limited time to. Options pilots have had long enough to decide there must be a better way of solving their problems than leaving all the decisions up to management. Active participation in your career seems to be a natural choice for pilots.

Best of luck!
NJW

 

[DO-82 driver]

I had the opportunity to meet quite a few FLOP's guys this week. Everyone of them were more than enthusiastic about voting Local 1108 onto the property. These guys weren't just being polite, they were very strong willed and had very strong opinions concerning the furture of their Company and their careers.

The NetJets folks and FLOP's folks are very much alike.......I wish all those at FLOP's people the best in securing the types of futures you all deserve.

 

[RNObased]

The NetJets folks and FLOP's folks are very much alike.......I wish all those at FLOP's people the best in securing the types of futures you all deserve.

Really NJA crews and Flops's crew are very much alike..... In the regard that we are both pilots, yes. Other then that...... Well I would say there is big difference between us.

 

[Guitar Guy]

Really NJA crews and Flops's crew are very much alike..... In the regard that we are both pilots, yes. Other then that...... Well I would say there is big difference between us.

What, in your opinion, are the differences between Flops and NJA crews? I'm just curious as to what your reasoning is.

 

[Cavpilot]

What, in your opinion, are the differences between Flops and NJA crews? I'm just curious as to what your reasoning is.

First off, let me state that I wish the Flops guys and gals all of the best. That being said. I'll tell you a difference.

Do you remember about 3-4- years ago when just about every Flops pilot that you ran into would say something like " Hey, when are you NetJets guys going to get your contract done? I need a raise. Har, har, har!" When I would respond by telling them to get their own union, the normal response was "we don't need a union here! KR promised us we will always be the highest paid."
So because of the arrogance and lack of understanding while we were busy with our struggle and the fact that most of them willingly drank kool-aid from a fire hose, I think our pilot groups are vastly different.

 

[choppengruven]

But not so different anymore. In fact come March 2nd we will be sailng in the same ship. I cannot wait to join up with NJ in the 1008 and turn a whole industry from sliding into the regional airline mentality.


Pilots 4 pilots

 

[dime line]

"" Hey, when are you NetJets guys going to get your contract done? I need a raise. Har, har, har!" ""

Yes I was one of those guys!!

""the normal response was "we don't need a union here! KR promised us we will always be the highest paid.""

The pilots that you talk of were not Raytheon Travel Air pilots, about 430 pilots at the merger. I can guarentee that was not the mind set of at least 70% of them

 

[Wyatt]

First off, let me state that I wish the Flops guys and gals all of the best. That being said. I'll tell you a difference.

Do you remember about 3-4- years ago when just about every Flops pilot that you ran into would say something like " Hey, when are you NetJets guys going to get your contract done? I need a raise. Har, har, har!" When I would respond by telling them to get their own union, the normal response was "we don't need a union here! KR promised us we will always be the highest paid."
So because of the arrogance and lack of understanding while we were busy with our struggle and the fact that most of them willingly drank kool-aid from a fire hose, I think our pilot groups are vastly different.

"just about every" but not all.

Guys who came over from RTA could see the differences immediately and saw from their first meeting with KR that he was a flim-flam man. Im not trying to be divisive here. We are all one group, in the same boat, and working toward the same goal. But there are still KR "cultists" out there that believe his second coming would fix our problems and that Raytheon is the enemy. Got news for ya, they were in bed together and neither gave a damn about us.

Talk is cheap. We are ready for action.

VOTE YES 1108

 

[Publishers]

Ironman --Geez I was thinking more along the lines that they liquidate the business if they cannot find a buyer. An existing contract may in effect make sale even more difficult. None of this is a reflection on you guys at all or whatever it is that you make.
The question is should Raytheon be in this business at all??? Frankly to a mnufacturer, this is a real pain in the ass business.

 

[netjetwife]

Really NJA crews and Flops's crew are very much alike..... In the regard that we are both pilots, yes. Other then that...... Well I would say there is big difference between us.

Allow me to point out a few more similarities to you, RNObased: Both companies are in the fractional industry. Both are ran by managers that lack respect for the contribution of the pilots that are the backbone of the company. The Options pilots are facing the same problems that the NJ pilots struggled to overcome--being underpaid/overworked. The Options families face the same questions that the NJ families had to resolve. Is it worth it? Can this be a job that is a career move worth keeping? Have we had enough of the status quo and are we willing to stand up for our rights?

I do agree that there is a big difference, however. The Options pilots lack the security and representation that come with a union which is dedicated to gaining the pilots a good/fair contract. Hopefully, that will be changing in the near future and then the two groups will have even more in common.

Watching the gap close,
Netjetwife

 

[gunfyter]

Ironman --Geez I was thinking more along the lines that they liquidate the business if they cannot find a buyer. An existing contract may in effect make sale even more difficult. None of this is a reflection on you guys at all or whatever it is that you make.
The question is should Raytheon be in this business at all??? Frankly to a mnufacturer, this is a real pain in the ass business.

As long as NetJets sells their planes... they might not need to be in this business.

But can they trust NJ not to cancel orders?

Look at history...

NJ let it be known they did not like its suppliers competing with them.

Raytheon sells off RTA.

Forced to take it back.

Makes billion dollar deals with NJA.

I think you may be right ... they do not want to be in a business competing with a very large customer that does not appreciate the manufacturer competing with it.

 

[FAcFriend]

just a quick q-
how involved is the national with the 1108 going after flops? Is it true that in the end 1108 might not have the money or national backing to represent flops?
I havent heard from teamsters national on this- has anyone else?
i was always surprised that they were not more involved in the NJA thing-

 

[Hawkered]

Facfriend


Surely you jest? The Teamsters are very happy to take up another 850 memberships to add to their list. The union movement has lots of money right now, due to the resurgence of unionism with corporate greed/governance and the exporting of jobs.

 

[netjetwife]

1108 was satisfied with the help they received from the national organization. It was their wish to handle their affairs on their own. Who better understands the situation faced by NJA pilots, than said pilots? That is the appeal of 1108. Local autonomy backed by a big-name union--the best of both worlds. Give the Options pilots due credit. They will be able to pay their way with dues collected from their own membership. They will be led by reps from within their ranks. The Options group will have the experience of 1108 to guide them as they address the issues that concern them. Strong Unions are quite capable of solving their own problems. A distant national organization cannot provide the needed sense of conviction and determination that compels a group to stand up for itself. When they are ready to deliver their message, the Options group will have the presentation help they need.

Best of luck to the Options pilots and their families,
Netjetwife