FLOPS Union Busting

[realityman]

SS, please take the time to check your facts, and above all else, LISTEN to what other people actually involved with this are saying. The answers to your questions are already here!
1)Starting an in-house union at NJA was looked at. It turned out that it would be prohibitively expensive to do so. Even with 2000 pilots chipping in dues. So how are the FLOPS pilots supposed to come up with that dough? Truly good and effective lawyers are very pricey. By remaining with Teamsters we had more than just our dues to draw upon, plus an already established network of lawyers to use, as well as other aviation locals within Teamsters (like the one at Airborne) to advise and guide us.

2)The pilots would have liked to get away from Local 284 back in 2004, just as you say, but the reasons we didn't aren't what you are putting forth. Quite simply, we had very ineffective leadership (Our previous MEC) who wouldn't stand up to a fat lady in a marathon. As soon as our new leadership was elected, we broke away and formed our own local, 1108, in an almost unheard of short period of time WITH the Teamsters National backing us to do so.

3)Corruption in the Teamsters? Yeah, so what? There's corruption everywhere. Government (national and local), in corporations, schools, aviation, and yes, even in the military. That doesn't mean we can't be a moral and ethical side of a union that may be tarnished in certain areas. Jimmy Hoffa dosn't seem to involve himself much with our little branch of the Teamsters, except when we needed to filter out the corruption of our old Local 284.

Ultimately, it's up to the FLOPS pilots to decide how they want to handle this. So far, our local 1108's record is pretty good at getting the desired results. Based on those facts, they are doing the right thing.

 

[netjetwife]

Excellent post, Realityman!

There you have it. A realistic view of the situation. One that is exactly as I remember it, as well. The pros and cons were weighed by the NJ pilots who made the smart decision. The results speak for themselves, as did all those cards turned in by Flt Ops pilots who are ready to stand up to corporate greed and disrespect for their profession.

Best of luck to you all,
Netjetwife

 

[netjetwife]

Do you suppose the union-busting firm hired by Options has seen the coverage the pilots got in the Teamsters Airline Journal? News of the pilots' union drive is spreading faster and further than their efforts to squash it. What a waste of money! That just confirms that it isn't a matter of not being able to afford industry wages. The company has the money; they just choose to spend it on other things, obviously.

To the Flt Ops pilots sitting on the fence--you should find a copy of this journal and take a look on page 5. It's too easy to think of your situation as only a personal matter between the pilots and the company. In truth, your battle is part of a much bigger picture that has repercussions throughout the industry. Seeing it in black and white has a way of bringing that point home. It's not just your career future at stake, those of your fellow Ops pilots, and the financial well being of all your families that is being decided by your vote. Your decisions as pilots of the "second-largest fractional carrier" will have an impact on the rest of the industry. There's a lot of other pilots and their families whose future will be affected by your vote. Please don't let them down. Many in the aviation community are watching and waiting to see the outcome. I just received that proof in the mail. There is more support for your cause than perhaps you realize.

Just one of many cheering you on,
Netjetwife


ALL PROFESSIONAL PILOTS DESERVE A PROFESSIONAL CONTRACT

1108--CHANGING THE FRACTIONAL INDUSTRY, ONE COMPANY AT A TIME

 

[choppengruven]

netjetwife

Thank you for taking the time to educate yourself on whats happening with our drive. The 1108 will be 800 pilots stronger come March 2nd.

 

[dime line]

I can't wait!!!! 10 more days

 

[netjetwife]

My birthday is March 6th...nothing would please me more than to have cause to celebrate early

CG, we all follow the things that matter to us. I'm happy to lend my voice to such a worthy cause. I've been a supporter of the other frac pilots since my early posts here. I saw the same problems, across the industry, that the NJ pilots faced. Watching the grass roots movement, StrongUnion, take off, I knew that it was the answer for all of you. You are all capable of forming your own strong union within your ranks by standing up, speaking out, and fighting back. 1108 just gives you that platform. The motivation and determination is your own. I commend you for acting on it.
NJW

 

[Publishers]

If you want reality through history, just check with the Air Force wife. The Teamsters came to EJA through the railroad ownership. They wanted a piece of dues from the pilots at EJA who made more than the folks that they represented at the time. General LeMay liked having the Air Force pilots because he could save money and get skilled Lear Jet pilots.
1108 makes it sound like the three years before never happened and that there had been no progress at all. They came in and Walaw, there was a contract..

 

[DO-82 driver]

Yup Publisher....that pretty much sums it up nicely. Actually, less than a year went by and we had a contract.

284 was a puppet show......

1108 is the real thing.

 

[BBJPILOT]

If you want reality through history, just check with the Air Force wife. The Teamsters came to EJA through the railroad ownership. They wanted a piece of dues from the pilots at EJA who made more than the folks that they represented at the time. General LeMay liked having the Air Force pilots because he could save money and get skilled Lear Jet pilots.
1108 makes it sound like the three years before never happened and that there had been no progress at all. They came in and Walaw, there was a contract..

Not exactly there bud! The teamsters were asked to represent the few pilots at Executive Jet Aviation almost 30 years ago. The AIR FORCE (Yes Sir/No Sir) pilots were so fed up with the crap that EJA and it's "Generals" were pulling that they, the pilots of EJA began a search for Union representation. This search began at ALPA, but, much to our pilots dismay, ALPA wasn't interested in some little jet charter pilots. Through much effort on the part of several pilots at EJA, they were able to convince the IBT to seek representation rights of the pilots. What you seemingly also do not know is that once the vote was counted and EJA Pilots were in fact represented, these same small number of pilots were a Charter member of what was to be the newest IBT Local, Local 284 in Columbus. 284 didn't seek out the pilots, there wasn't any 284. IBT didn't seek out the pilots either, the pilots looked for them, and were also a charter member of what was to become the so-called airline division within the IBT.

As someone in the know, yes, the 3 years of playing with the Company that 284 attempted, half-heartedly, did in fact lead to some of the changes you see in the current CBA, however, it was the changes to both the past contract and the rejected attempt by 284 that would cause the pilots to vote yes. Nothing left-over in it's original form from the rejected 3 year effort was in itself, or in total combination, good enough for a yes. The real issues that the rejected TA and 3 years of our time was so lacking in was negotiated in less than a year, and was accomplished with the help of the existing pilot force, not the disdain for them that was demonstrated by both the 284 Leadership and the pilot leadership at the time. When you go to a fight and you have a club, or a nuke in your possesion, to win you use them, not ignore them in hopes of being "kind" with management, especially when that same management was showing such "kindness" for the line pilots.

Even the Company management was shocked at just how out of touch bith the pilot leadership was, and how out of touch 284 was when that first vote was counted. Time will tell if the same thing happens at 1108, but for the current time, we are better off, much better off.

The ownership interests found in the Pennsylvania Railroad was a short lived and illegal part, a small part of EJA history. It had nothing to do with representation, and the IBT represented few Railroad Workers at the time anyway, they have their own AFL-CIO representation Unions.

 

[Diesel]

Wow somone just droped the hammer.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Diesel....someone who knows what really happened dropped the hammer.....Anyone foolish enough to argue these fact with BBJ is just a plain idiot.

 

[choppengruven]

And from publishers corner?

Crickets....

Let me say something I've wanted to turn around and tell all the anti union Nazi's. Were getting a union at FLOP's, and if you dont like it why dont you just quit? Ahh It's so nice to turn those words around after hearing it told to me for so long.

 

[NJA Capt]

General LeMay liked having the Air Force pilots because he could save money and get skilled Lear Jet pilots.

Since EJA purchased most of the first dozen Lear 23s (in 1964). I don't think the USAF had too many yet. EJA was also the one who taught the FAA how to give checkrides in business jets (Using the Lear). Now, who was it again that had the skilled Lear Pilots?

 

[GVFlyer]

Since EJA purchased most of the first dozen Lear 23s (in 1964). I don't think the USAF had too many yet. EJA was also the one who taught the FAA how to give checkrides in business jets (Using the Lear). Now, who was it again that had the skilled Lear Pilots?

I'm not sure how comfortable I feel about being the unofficial board historian. It works against NJA when it comes to NJI, but in this case, concerning C-21's, it works for them.

I participated in obtaining the Statement of Military Conformity for the C-21 prior to fielding. Delivery of the C-21A fleet began in April 1984 and was completed in October 1985. The C-21 (Gates LearJet 35) fleet is dispersed throughout the Air Force and consists of 73 active duty and 4 Air National Guard aircraft stationed at 14 worldwide locations. On 01 April 1997, all continental U.S.-based C-21s were realigned under Air Mobility Command, with the 375th Airlift Wing at Scott Air Force Base, Ill., as the lead command. C-21s stationed outside the continental United States are assigned to the theater commanders. The US Army has had five C-21's which were replaced by the UC-35A (Citation V and derivatives).

GV

 

[BBJPILOT]

Since EJA purchased most of the first dozen Lear 23s (in 1964). I don't think the USAF had too many yet. EJA was also the one who taught the FAA how to give checkrides in business jets (Using the Lear). Now, who was it again that had the skilled Lear Pilots?

And who supplied a nice group of trained Falcon 20 pilots to Fred Smith so many years ago?