FLOPS Union Busting

[Cavpilot]

What, in your opinion, are the differences between Flops and NJA crews? I'm just curious as to what your reasoning is.

First off, let me state that I wish the Flops guys and gals all of the best. That being said. I'll tell you a difference.

Do you remember about 3-4- years ago when just about every Flops pilot that you ran into would say something like " Hey, when are you NetJets guys going to get your contract done? I need a raise. Har, har, har!" When I would respond by telling them to get their own union, the normal response was "we don't need a union here! KR promised us we will always be the highest paid."
So because of the arrogance and lack of understanding while we were busy with our struggle and the fact that most of them willingly drank kool-aid from a fire hose, I think our pilot groups are vastly different.

 

[choppengruven]

But not so different anymore. In fact come March 2nd we will be sailng in the same ship. I cannot wait to join up with NJ in the 1008 and turn a whole industry from sliding into the regional airline mentality.


Pilots 4 pilots

 

[dime line]

"" Hey, when are you NetJets guys going to get your contract done? I need a raise. Har, har, har!" ""

Yes I was one of those guys!!

""the normal response was "we don't need a union here! KR promised us we will always be the highest paid.""

The pilots that you talk of were not Raytheon Travel Air pilots, about 430 pilots at the merger. I can guarentee that was not the mind set of at least 70% of them

 

[Wyatt]

First off, let me state that I wish the Flops guys and gals all of the best. That being said. I'll tell you a difference.

Do you remember about 3-4- years ago when just about every Flops pilot that you ran into would say something like " Hey, when are you NetJets guys going to get your contract done? I need a raise. Har, har, har!" When I would respond by telling them to get their own union, the normal response was "we don't need a union here! KR promised us we will always be the highest paid."
So because of the arrogance and lack of understanding while we were busy with our struggle and the fact that most of them willingly drank kool-aid from a fire hose, I think our pilot groups are vastly different.

"just about every" but not all.

Guys who came over from RTA could see the differences immediately and saw from their first meeting with KR that he was a flim-flam man. Im not trying to be divisive here. We are all one group, in the same boat, and working toward the same goal. But there are still KR "cultists" out there that believe his second coming would fix our problems and that Raytheon is the enemy. Got news for ya, they were in bed together and neither gave a damn about us.

Talk is cheap. We are ready for action.

VOTE YES 1108

 

[Publishers]

Ironman --Geez I was thinking more along the lines that they liquidate the business if they cannot find a buyer. An existing contract may in effect make sale even more difficult. None of this is a reflection on you guys at all or whatever it is that you make.
The question is should Raytheon be in this business at all??? Frankly to a mnufacturer, this is a real pain in the ass business.

 

[netjetwife]

Really NJA crews and Flops's crew are very much alike..... In the regard that we are both pilots, yes. Other then that...... Well I would say there is big difference between us.

Allow me to point out a few more similarities to you, RNObased: Both companies are in the fractional industry. Both are ran by managers that lack respect for the contribution of the pilots that are the backbone of the company. The Options pilots are facing the same problems that the NJ pilots struggled to overcome--being underpaid/overworked. The Options families face the same questions that the NJ families had to resolve. Is it worth it? Can this be a job that is a career move worth keeping? Have we had enough of the status quo and are we willing to stand up for our rights?

I do agree that there is a big difference, however. The Options pilots lack the security and representation that come with a union which is dedicated to gaining the pilots a good/fair contract. Hopefully, that will be changing in the near future and then the two groups will have even more in common.

Watching the gap close,
Netjetwife

 

[gunfyter]

Ironman --Geez I was thinking more along the lines that they liquidate the business if they cannot find a buyer. An existing contract may in effect make sale even more difficult. None of this is a reflection on you guys at all or whatever it is that you make.
The question is should Raytheon be in this business at all??? Frankly to a mnufacturer, this is a real pain in the ass business.

As long as NetJets sells their planes... they might not need to be in this business.

But can they trust NJ not to cancel orders?

Look at history...

NJ let it be known they did not like its suppliers competing with them.

Raytheon sells off RTA.

Forced to take it back.

Makes billion dollar deals with NJA.

I think you may be right ... they do not want to be in a business competing with a very large customer that does not appreciate the manufacturer competing with it.

 

[FAcFriend]

just a quick q-
how involved is the national with the 1108 going after flops? Is it true that in the end 1108 might not have the money or national backing to represent flops?
I havent heard from teamsters national on this- has anyone else?
i was always surprised that they were not more involved in the NJA thing-

 

[Hawkered]

Facfriend


Surely you jest? The Teamsters are very happy to take up another 850 memberships to add to their list. The union movement has lots of money right now, due to the resurgence of unionism with corporate greed/governance and the exporting of jobs.

 

[netjetwife]

1108 was satisfied with the help they received from the national organization. It was their wish to handle their affairs on their own. Who better understands the situation faced by NJA pilots, than said pilots? That is the appeal of 1108. Local autonomy backed by a big-name union--the best of both worlds. Give the Options pilots due credit. They will be able to pay their way with dues collected from their own membership. They will be led by reps from within their ranks. The Options group will have the experience of 1108 to guide them as they address the issues that concern them. Strong Unions are quite capable of solving their own problems. A distant national organization cannot provide the needed sense of conviction and determination that compels a group to stand up for itself. When they are ready to deliver their message, the Options group will have the presentation help they need.

Best of luck to the Options pilots and their families,
Netjetwife