Flight Options Vacation Changes

[Spackler]

Ot

I don't feel bad for any of these OT whore$. I am a low seniority sic with kids and my wife is a stay at home Mom. It's not easy but I have managed to survive without doing any voluntary OT. What good is the extra money going to do me when I'm laid off? And if I don't get laid off and someone else does, at least I will be able to sleep at night knowing I didn't play any part in their job loss. Flops management is never going to figure out how many pilots it REALLY takes to run this operation if people are still doing ot.

Anyone still doing OT on a voluntary basis is never going to get it if they haven't gotten it by now. We've all heard the excuses. I'm tired of the excuses.

Why did the union ask us as pilots not to do overtime? Because at the time the threat of lay-offs was real and we were concerned with those at the bottom of the seniority list. We wanted to do all we could to help our brothers and sisters keep their jobs.

The flops bean counters still claim that we have too many pilots! They haven't stopped the forced vacations have they! Please do not take it upon yourself to figure out when it is OK to do OT again. I agree, it would be nice to turn it on and off but lets leave strategy up to the leadership.

 

[guido411]

How do you figure? OT is voluntary....there is nothing illegal about asking pilots to not volunteer.

The Union can't say things like, "Everybody call in sick tomorrow and that'll teach management to raise the cost of our benefits."
But they CAN say, "Don't fly sick, hungry, or fatigued."

The union can't say "Everybody break your airplanes at 1000 on Sunday to pay back management for our schedule changes."
But they CAN say, "Don't do anything illegal for or against the company."

All of the first examples would constitute an illegal job action. For the same reason the Union cannot say, "Work OT until Thanksgiving weekend but then stop doing it to show MS, SA, and BT that we're in control." The Union has to be VERY careful how it words things.

 

[Majik]

Yank it at the appropriate time?

Wonderful. Let's see how we can screw the company over and affect all those employees that are not represented by the union to get what they want.

This is EXACTLY the example I have repeatedly used to prove my point about why I like my non-union airline.

This isn't the opinion you were soliciting, but it's what you are going to get.

It is a poor management team that fails to realize the value of their employees. It's obvious that a counter screwing is the only option that will get their attention.

And as for the non-union employees, they are caught in the middle. The sooner they realize this and assist the unionized employees, the sooner things will get better for everyone - including the overall financial health of the company.

NetJets made record profits after the pilots finally got tired enough to force management to work with them instead of against them. I think the NJA non-union employees are happier now than when the battle was raging.

As far as the guy's idea of working OT and then yanking it - bad idea. Don't give the company any ammo to use in court to claim an illegal job action. Just ratchet up the pressure on a daily basis. Don't rush and be as safe as you possibly can. It's really hard to do but half-hearted efforts will only yield half-hearted results. Improvements will begin when enough pilots begin to roll up their sleeves and do it every leg of every day, not just when it's convenient.

 

[Majik]

This is EXACTLY the example I have repeatedly used to prove my point about why I like my non-union airline.

And I agree with you on this point. I was anti-union before I came to NetJets. I had never worked for a company where a union was needed. Everyone wants to work for a company where the company considers employee's QOL and recognizes their contribution. Don't know where you work but it sounds like you have that. Pat yourself on the back for the good fortune of working for a company that has a good management team. NetJets wasn't one of them and Flight Options isn't either. Trust me, I hated the battle and years of fighting it required to get our contract. IT SUCKED BIG TIME! It was necessary and I like to think I did my part to help achieve the success NetJets is enjoying today.

Isn't it ironic that Santulli turned me from a rabid anti-unionist into a hard-core union supporter?

 

[TurboHonda]

I guess you are following the rules yourself by following number 4. "Be professional." That is going too far by posting names of people working OT. People have their own reasons of why they need to work OT.
I am sorry but if I needed the money at home, my family would come first...

Easy now. Try not to get too self-righteous here.

There are two separate issues, and one has nothing to do with the other.

Issue #1: Someone posts the names of people working overtime. He/she does it anonymously on a public board. Maybe it was rude, crude, and un-professional. I guess we should limit ourselves to only “professional” behavior, while working for a bunch of morally corrupt thieves and with a few selfish enablers. If that is the case, shame on you Fed Magnet. I can’t endorse what you did.

Issue #2: We have a bunch of pilots voluntarily working overtime (selfish enablers) and hindering the progress of our obtaining a contract. So they need the money. Well, go steal something. Because, that’s what you’re doing to your pilot brothers.

Like I said, one issue has nothing to do with the other. Condemnation of one is not acceptance of the other.

 

[Frac Cap]

What we were making 7 and 8 years ago at flops was a lot more than what we are making now. the taxes on my house has almost doubled since then and are now increasing more than the less than 0.80% pay increase that I got this year when you factor the pay cuts in other areas. I cant continue to make ends meet if this keeps up. My concern for the level of service I provide is on par with my pay increase.

 

[FR8DOG777]

Ignore b19

First of all we all know he is not a pilot as defined from his post regarding one of our fellow pilots. Any pilot with an ounce of decency or civility would not have made a comment about doing someone elses girlfriend because of their schedule. Besides we all know he is anxious to end this union battle so he can go back to those long sunset strolls with his boyfriend down there in Miami on South Beach. Secondly, the only airline I can think of that is non-union is skywest and just ask them how much they love their non-union airline. Good ole' Jerry Atkins giving them a 1 and 1/2 percent pay increase in seven years, dumping that pbs bidding system in their lap, oh yeah, and flying seventy and ninety seat aircraft for fifty seat pay. Unions exist because of the criminal actions of greeedy airline executives. The union is here to stay at flight options. I suggest we ignore this idiot. Do not engage in any of his disruptive conjecture. We need to get rid of the ot thread and approach our bretheren in a more respectful manner. They are trying to divide us and that is exactly what b19 is trying to do here. As much as I am against doing ot, in time the offenders will realize their selfish interests are affecting their well being as well. Now if you will forgive me I have to get some rest. I only had thirty minutes to postflight and do a minimal aircraft postflight inspection. I am sure after ten hours of rest here at the super 8 I will have the keen sense for discovering any discrepancies I might have overlooked last night. Adios

 

[chingaso]

this guy

Quote:

"I didn't say one should try to get a job on the side. If the wage that you're told you will receive is not going to be enough from Day 1, DON'T ACCEPT THE JOB!! If you you find yourself in the predicament of not having enough money because the pay you signed up for is not enough I have no sympathy for you."

That's way too simple and naive. How long have you been with the company? I accepted a job at Travel Air, where I was told I would upgrade within 6 months. Then we merged with FLOPS, and I"m still and SIC. I was also married at the time, so there was a double income. Divorce cut that away, yet I got the debt. No biggy, soldier on. But we don't get cost-of-living raises at FLOPS. Each year I look forward to my little raise and each year it gets taken away from me. Got a raise, got my domicile taken away and I spend 350 bucks a month driving to work. Next year, got my raise, got it taken away because I now pay an extra 200 bucks in insurance. Then they switched our pay schedule, and I bring home 400 bucks less per month than I used to. I don't care how anyone wants to spin that one, its simple arithmetic, and Garrett whats-his-face knows exactly what it was: a paycut. My creditors don't care that I get 3 paychecks in August, my bills are due monthly. Now my sister lives with me and I have to support her. So things change, its not as simple as you are trying to put it.

But I've never worked overtime, except when they screw me on Day 8 and I'm forced into it. I've refused to help Sheeringa's 'staffing metrics.'

I was looking forward to my 5-year mark as an SIC, because I'd finally get "small-cabin captains pay" I was told to expect 6 years ago. Yet now, I make monthly what I did 2 years ago. I was treading water and praying for a tidal wave to not come. But it did. I might not have any choice but to do overtime. If anyone wants to give me ******************** over it, they can lend me some cash and I won't do it. In fact, if that happens, I'm going to post on the IBT board exactly what I'm having to do and why. I'm going to let everyone know, and make a big issue out of the fact that FLOPS policies have forced me into Chapter 13, and OT is the only way to prevent it. I'm sure I'm not alone, I know a lot of SICs that are struggling just as I have over the last 6 years. If the press caught wind of FLOPS pilots having to work 20 days out of a month just to make up for the paycuts, OT to avoid bankruptcy, it might help expose the criminal greed of the executives at what used to be a half-decent company. If I end up having to do OT, I'm not going to like it, and I'm going to yell real loud about it. I'm going to be very vocal and public about it.

So yeah, I knew what the payscale was going to be when I signed on with Travel Air. In fact, when the union first got started, salary wasn't at the top of my list of things I wanted changed, because, like you say, I knew what the job paid when I hired on. I did NOT know that this coward of a CEO would be in my future. Any chicken ******************** can cut pay and benefits, sell off assets, and call that "profit." It takes a real man to make profit through increasing revenue. One way is honorable and intelligent, the other way is weak, pathetic, cowardice, and lazy.

Try to think more reasonably about it. Not all of us are putting in a new guest room, turning our basements into bars, or buying boats. Some of us are just trying to keep their heads above water. There's a big difference. Everything good about this company, that caused me to hire on, has vanished. Including what I was told I'd be making.

 

[guido411]

Look, I feel for you, man. Sh!t happens and people end up in a tight spot. I am not condoning the moves that management has made in the past, but I also believe people should have some of their own fiscal responsibility. I'm talking about Day 1 pay here, NOT what the pay scale says. I don't believe in spending money I don't have in the bank. I have never gone out and bought a house, or a boat, or put a bar in my basement based on what I was told I'd be making in a year or two. If my wife left me and I kept the house, I could pay the mortgage. If either one of us lost a job we could still pay the mortgage. . .and I'm talking about 2007's pay and I'm not talking about dipping into savings either. And since you asked, I am a year 4 SIC that was told he'd upgrade in year 2, was told he'd be the best paid in the industry even if NetJets got a raise, and was told he could live wherever he wants. I DO still have my domicile and I am VERY sorry you don't. But I'm paying dues and the Union tells me the fastest way to get my domicile locked and (and get yours back) is to pay dues and not work OT.

 

[chingaso]

You're exactly right. Thats the fastest way to a contract, incudling domicile restoration: paying your dues. And not working overtime shows solidarity more than it disproves Sheeringa's numbers, so thats a powerful thing, too.

I'm glad you got it going on, I used to have it going on, too, and will again real soon. Kids get sick, things break, economies flip, property taxes launch, people split up; a lot could happen to you and I'm glad you still have savings, and hope you never have to use it. Sounds like you're wife isn't a spender, either, your a blessed man. You're in your early to mid thirties, you have a good thing, hope it lasts and lasts... And if we meet on the road, I will buy YOU a beer.

I'm a real a**hole when it comes to OT, and I flatly refuse to do it. For me to be looking at it sideways means something went real haywire. I never agreed with some of the guys that saw OT as a benefit, and bought how it was sold as an "opportunity." I'm gone from my family as much as it is, and what I get per day on OT won't buy you a day with my family. Ain't worth it. So saying no is easy for me. I marvel at married pilots with children that are willing to do overtime all the time. Their kids will only be this age one time, yet they choose to stay out on the road with some guy they don't really know. Their kids don't need money, their kids don't need a bar in the basement, their kids need their Dad.

Won't do overtime, cant afford to stay here, so I'm just going to get another job. Life's too short. Good luck, brother, keep fighting the good fight. We could use you on P2P, so look into it. PM me and I'll tell you how to get involved.