Flight Options Vacation Changes

[Frac Cap]

What we were making 7 and 8 years ago at flops was a lot more than what we are making now. the taxes on my house has almost doubled since then and are now increasing more than the less than 0.80% pay increase that I got this year when you factor the pay cuts in other areas. I cant continue to make ends meet if this keeps up. My concern for the level of service I provide is on par with my pay increase.

 

[FR8DOG777]

Ignore b19

First of all we all know he is not a pilot as defined from his post regarding one of our fellow pilots. Any pilot with an ounce of decency or civility would not have made a comment about doing someone elses girlfriend because of their schedule. Besides we all know he is anxious to end this union battle so he can go back to those long sunset strolls with his boyfriend down there in Miami on South Beach. Secondly, the only airline I can think of that is non-union is skywest and just ask them how much they love their non-union airline. Good ole' Jerry Atkins giving them a 1 and 1/2 percent pay increase in seven years, dumping that pbs bidding system in their lap, oh yeah, and flying seventy and ninety seat aircraft for fifty seat pay. Unions exist because of the criminal actions of greeedy airline executives. The union is here to stay at flight options. I suggest we ignore this idiot. Do not engage in any of his disruptive conjecture. We need to get rid of the ot thread and approach our bretheren in a more respectful manner. They are trying to divide us and that is exactly what b19 is trying to do here. As much as I am against doing ot, in time the offenders will realize their selfish interests are affecting their well being as well. Now if you will forgive me I have to get some rest. I only had thirty minutes to postflight and do a minimal aircraft postflight inspection. I am sure after ten hours of rest here at the super 8 I will have the keen sense for discovering any discrepancies I might have overlooked last night. Adios

 

[chingaso]

this guy

Quote:

"I didn't say one should try to get a job on the side. If the wage that you're told you will receive is not going to be enough from Day 1, DON'T ACCEPT THE JOB!! If you you find yourself in the predicament of not having enough money because the pay you signed up for is not enough I have no sympathy for you."

That's way too simple and naive. How long have you been with the company? I accepted a job at Travel Air, where I was told I would upgrade within 6 months. Then we merged with FLOPS, and I"m still and SIC. I was also married at the time, so there was a double income. Divorce cut that away, yet I got the debt. No biggy, soldier on. But we don't get cost-of-living raises at FLOPS. Each year I look forward to my little raise and each year it gets taken away from me. Got a raise, got my domicile taken away and I spend 350 bucks a month driving to work. Next year, got my raise, got it taken away because I now pay an extra 200 bucks in insurance. Then they switched our pay schedule, and I bring home 400 bucks less per month than I used to. I don't care how anyone wants to spin that one, its simple arithmetic, and Garrett whats-his-face knows exactly what it was: a paycut. My creditors don't care that I get 3 paychecks in August, my bills are due monthly. Now my sister lives with me and I have to support her. So things change, its not as simple as you are trying to put it.

But I've never worked overtime, except when they screw me on Day 8 and I'm forced into it. I've refused to help Sheeringa's 'staffing metrics.'

I was looking forward to my 5-year mark as an SIC, because I'd finally get "small-cabin captains pay" I was told to expect 6 years ago. Yet now, I make monthly what I did 2 years ago. I was treading water and praying for a tidal wave to not come. But it did. I might not have any choice but to do overtime. If anyone wants to give me ******************** over it, they can lend me some cash and I won't do it. In fact, if that happens, I'm going to post on the IBT board exactly what I'm having to do and why. I'm going to let everyone know, and make a big issue out of the fact that FLOPS policies have forced me into Chapter 13, and OT is the only way to prevent it. I'm sure I'm not alone, I know a lot of SICs that are struggling just as I have over the last 6 years. If the press caught wind of FLOPS pilots having to work 20 days out of a month just to make up for the paycuts, OT to avoid bankruptcy, it might help expose the criminal greed of the executives at what used to be a half-decent company. If I end up having to do OT, I'm not going to like it, and I'm going to yell real loud about it. I'm going to be very vocal and public about it.

So yeah, I knew what the payscale was going to be when I signed on with Travel Air. In fact, when the union first got started, salary wasn't at the top of my list of things I wanted changed, because, like you say, I knew what the job paid when I hired on. I did NOT know that this coward of a CEO would be in my future. Any chicken ******************** can cut pay and benefits, sell off assets, and call that "profit." It takes a real man to make profit through increasing revenue. One way is honorable and intelligent, the other way is weak, pathetic, cowardice, and lazy.

Try to think more reasonably about it. Not all of us are putting in a new guest room, turning our basements into bars, or buying boats. Some of us are just trying to keep their heads above water. There's a big difference. Everything good about this company, that caused me to hire on, has vanished. Including what I was told I'd be making.

 

[guido411]

Look, I feel for you, man. Sh!t happens and people end up in a tight spot. I am not condoning the moves that management has made in the past, but I also believe people should have some of their own fiscal responsibility. I'm talking about Day 1 pay here, NOT what the pay scale says. I don't believe in spending money I don't have in the bank. I have never gone out and bought a house, or a boat, or put a bar in my basement based on what I was told I'd be making in a year or two. If my wife left me and I kept the house, I could pay the mortgage. If either one of us lost a job we could still pay the mortgage. . .and I'm talking about 2007's pay and I'm not talking about dipping into savings either. And since you asked, I am a year 4 SIC that was told he'd upgrade in year 2, was told he'd be the best paid in the industry even if NetJets got a raise, and was told he could live wherever he wants. I DO still have my domicile and I am VERY sorry you don't. But I'm paying dues and the Union tells me the fastest way to get my domicile locked and (and get yours back) is to pay dues and not work OT.

 

[chingaso]

You're exactly right. Thats the fastest way to a contract, incudling domicile restoration: paying your dues. And not working overtime shows solidarity more than it disproves Sheeringa's numbers, so thats a powerful thing, too.

I'm glad you got it going on, I used to have it going on, too, and will again real soon. Kids get sick, things break, economies flip, property taxes launch, people split up; a lot could happen to you and I'm glad you still have savings, and hope you never have to use it. Sounds like you're wife isn't a spender, either, your a blessed man. You're in your early to mid thirties, you have a good thing, hope it lasts and lasts... And if we meet on the road, I will buy YOU a beer.

I'm a real a**hole when it comes to OT, and I flatly refuse to do it. For me to be looking at it sideways means something went real haywire. I never agreed with some of the guys that saw OT as a benefit, and bought how it was sold as an "opportunity." I'm gone from my family as much as it is, and what I get per day on OT won't buy you a day with my family. Ain't worth it. So saying no is easy for me. I marvel at married pilots with children that are willing to do overtime all the time. Their kids will only be this age one time, yet they choose to stay out on the road with some guy they don't really know. Their kids don't need money, their kids don't need a bar in the basement, their kids need their Dad.

Won't do overtime, cant afford to stay here, so I'm just going to get another job. Life's too short. Good luck, brother, keep fighting the good fight. We could use you on P2P, so look into it. PM me and I'll tell you how to get involved.

 

[chingaso]

You're exactly right. Thats the fastest way to a contract, incudling domicile restoration: paying your dues. And not working overtime shows solidarity more than it disproves Sheeringa's numbers, so thats a powerful thing, too.

I'm glad you got it going on, I used to have it going on, too, and will again real soon. Kids get sick, things break, economies flip, property taxes launch, people split up; a lot could happen to you and I'm glad you still have savings, and hope you never have to use it. Sounds like you're wife isn't a spender, either, your a blessed man. You're in your early to mid thirties, you have a good thing, hope it lasts and lasts... And if we meet on the road, I will buy YOU a beer.

I'm a real a**hole when it comes to OT, and I flatly refuse to do it. For me to be looking at it sideways means something went real haywire. I never agreed with some of the guys that saw OT as a benefit, or bought how it was sold as an "opportunity." I'm gone from my family as much as it is, and what I get per day on OT won't buy you a day with my family. Ain't worth it. So saying no is easy for me. I marvel at married pilots with children that are willing to do overtime all the time. Their kids will only be this age one time, yet they choose to stay out on the road with some guy they don't really know. Their kids don't need money, their kids don't need a bar in the basement, their kids need their Dad.

Won't do overtime, cant afford to stay here, so I'm just going to get another job. Life's too short. Good luck, brother, keep fighting the good fight. We could use you on P2P, so look into it. PM me and I'll tell you how to get involved.

 

[jetwash]

The way I see it is that a guy made a personal decision to post the names of pilots who did OT. At the same time those pilots made a personal decision to do OT.


Neither was endorsed by the Union and should have no effect on the Union or its goal of getting a contract for all of pilots. (including those who are doing OT and those who are posting their names)


I too need extra money and have taken a part time job until we get a contract. One day of OT for me would replace about 25+ hours of work at my other job which I will continue to do rather then one day of OT until there is a contract.

Next time you go to a Sears hardware department wear your Union pin and I will get you the employee discount rate for your purchases.

 

[1folinepilot]

Yank this Bob

Yank it at the appropriate time?

Wonderful. Let's see how we can screw the company over and affect all those employees that are not represented by the union to get what they want.

This is EXACTLY the example I have repeatedly used to prove my point about why I like my non-union airline.

This isn't the opinion you were soliciting, but it's what you are going to get.

Bob, It is you who are doing the yanking and screwing all of the pilots with your new vacation program! I have plans with my family that we have made months ago on my days off as you have completely failed to manage the vacation program to grant me a vacation with the time that I have earned! Now you are yanking that away from me and going to assign extra days for us to work a forced overtime that you have no intention of paying us as such, thus more yanking around!

The only thing that you have repeatedly proved is that you love yanking us around!

 

[WabiSabi]

I'm a real a**hole when it comes to OT, and I flatly refuse to do it.

Heh heh, I miss that they don't call or send a personal email to request overtime anymore because, I use to love to reply with "absolutely not". Once after I denied OT a scheduler asked; "oh, you have a commitment at home?" I replied with; "no, nothing going on at home" :laugh: He didn't like that answer.

Now it is the general do not reply emails....oh well:erm:

 

[50Pesos]

Does anybody know when they are going to bring out the big stick to get beatin with on this bull$hit? be happy for Tday with no turkey crappy hotel, no flights. Merry Huckin Xmas too! I got FO'd

 

[fischman]

If your looking for someone to blame for slowing the process of getting a fair contract. Do not blame the union. The Union has asked the pilots to follow a few simple guidelines like:
1. Do not work overtime.
2. Do not do anything illegal for or against the company.
3. Register as a member and pay your dues.
4. Be professional.

Be sure to thank these pilots for thinking of themselves and slowing the process of getting a contract settled in a timely manner.

When one pilot was asked why he was working all the overtime he could get, seniority number 1 was quoted to say; "I am high enough in seniority that a layoff will not effect me!" It is this kind of thinking that will delay a contract for eternity.

Remember that the pilots are the union.

I'm not sure if I would have published their names on a public forum. I agree with the sentiment though. Want to post them on the Union boards? Go right ahead.

If you (not Fedmagnet) are working at FLOPS, and you are accepting voluntary OT, you are doing the wrong thing to help yourself and your family.

Need the money? Try lowering the cell phone usage. How BAD do you need cable TV? Turn the A/C up to 78. Time to stop buying the name brand stuff. Target brand stuff is pretty good. Is the second car paid off? Do you REALLY need the second car? Wait to go to the store until the cabinets and fridge is empty to save on gas. Don't eat out.

Before you ask or say that is crazy, I did ALL of these things to make ends meet instead of getting OT during the talks at NJA.

 

[fischman]

Yank it at the appropriate time?

Wonderful. Let's see how we can screw the company over and affect all those employees that are not represented by the union to get what they want.

This is EXACTLY the example I have repeatedly used to prove my point about why I like my non-union airline.

This isn't the opinion you were soliciting, but it's what you are going to get.

Screw over the company? How long has FLOPS been screwing it's own employees? The other thing to consider, and something that I have learned, is that it might look like you are screwing the company, but you really are not. By encouraging the company to reach a fair contract quickly, productivity will increase sooner thereby improving job security for the non union empolyees.

Sir, nobody cares what your opinion is.




I would encourage the pilots at FLOPS to listen to what the union leadership has to say. They know their stuff.

Be a professional. Follow the company manual, policies and procedures. Follow the FAR's. Safety is first.

 

[netjetwife]

To add to Fischman's money saving tips, I recommend buying kids clothes at thrift and/or consignment stores. Children often outgrow things before they wear them out so you can get some good deals. The Golden Arches can provide a very inexpensive treat if you order off the dollar menu and drink water. The kids get to play while Mom and Dad sit and talk. The contract battle is difficult, but worth it in the end. Congratulations on your unity and perseverance. Best of luck to all the Options pilots and their families!
Netjetwife

 

[B19 Flyer]

Sir, nobody cares what your opinion is.

The stench deepens. GM is out on strike nationwide, baseball can't get steroids out of the game because of the union and the Flight Options pilots are going to play games with the "rules" rather than negotiate in good faith. How many non-union careers and small business are going to take the hit cause of union work actions in the GM strike? How many dealership non-union workers will be affected? Will you support your local union brothers when YOU can't get your car fixed cause there aren't any parts available?

Can you smell it yet?

 

[GerryG]

The stench deepens. GM is out on strike nationwide, baseball can't get steroids out of the game because of the union and the Flight Options pilots are going to play games with the "rules" rather than negotiate in good faith. How many non-union careers and small business are going to take the hit cause of union work actions in the GM strike? How many dealership non-union workers will be affected? Will you support your local union brothers when YOU can't get your car fixed cause there aren't any parts available?

Can you smell it yet?

Yea Bob I can smell it and it's you. Phew, what a "scabby" stench. How's that vacation policy working out for ya? Punjab surely has sh!t and pushed you in it over this one, hasn't he. Man if I were you I'd quit going on about your non-union company, know-one is buying it. You might work for a no-contract company, but it surely isn't a non-union company. Anyways I'll reserve my judgement about the GM strike, until it's over. You should too, otherwise you might just end up with egg all over your face. Since you are such an expert on all things union:laugh:, you must know that unions typically don't go on strike unless they have a very good chance of winning.