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Flight Options Non-MIGS

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fracjack said:
What a pile of crap. These people are obligated to pay service fees, not join ur the union. Has nothing to do with future employment,only crossing a pickett line would have that effect and you guys don't have the cajones to vote the crap contract down since you got tired and settled. There are always some questionable people on both sides but the high number of non-migs is the real story. The description I would use for a MIGS who goes with the flow just out of fear without expressing their true opinions is "poser". They are also the loudest, judgemental,accusatory types who are really masking their own inadequacies by displays of false pride. I'd wager there would not be a successful union vote today if the current outcome were known before. When a union tells you no dues until we have a contract that gives real incentive to get the best possible contract and show integrity to do as they say and not change the rules midstream. Management did that multiple times and did it unfairly which generated interest in the union. Ricci wore you all down,just admit it. Selfserving cheese eating rats to protect what was left of the company to stay employed in tough economic times just to stop the bleeding.
WTF does a Dubinsky know about fracs and management styles of a Ricci type? I really feel sad for you people, no winners here. The bar is set so low other frac mgmts are using it to their advantage to the detriment of other non union frac pilots. To the remaining frac players,don't fall for the the IBT union solution.
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They got exactly what they asked for.

Even though it was negotiated by their union that they didn't have to pay, those on this board will continue to extort those whenever possible. They have no ability to abide by the contract.

Blame the IBT, not those that are choosing to abide by the contract they didn't want in the first place.
 
B19 Flyer said:
People who are disloyal and force a union onto their co-workers show their character or lack there of. Having your name on a list like this could affect future employment, especially where the union creates instability within the company as this one has.
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B19 The instablity at Flight Options is a result of two things.
1. Raytheon funneling assests from Flight Options to RAC to facilitate the sale of RAC.
2. Poor management


Netjets has a union and is not unstable.

I'm curious if you do not and never have worked at Flight Options why do you spend your time on these boards?

A majority of the Flight Options pilots voted in and continue to support the IBT. Using your logic everyone that has ever voted in any election has no charecter because if they are on the majority side they are forcing something on the minority that the minority doesn't want.
 
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B19 Flyer said:
They got exactly what they asked for.

Even though it was negotiated by their union that they didn't have to pay, those on this board will continue to extort those whenever possible. They have no ability to abide by the contract.

Blame the IBT, not those that are choosing to abide by the contract they didn't want in the first place.
Click to expand...


Paying what you owe is not extortion. I don't agree with how a lot of tax dollars are spent and collected. However elected representitives have decided on spending plans and have put in place a tax code. I owe the taxes even thought I don't always agree with them or the reason behind them. The back dues to day one are the same thing.
 
GhettoBeechjet said:
Paying what you owe is not extortion. I don't agree with how a lot of tax dollars are spent and collected. However elected representitives have decided on spending plans and have put in place a tax code. I owe the taxes even thought I don't always agree with them or the reason behind them. The back dues to day one are the same thing.
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Ok.... Show me where in the bylaws does it state where we are required to pay dues prior to the first contract being signed. I have looked all throughout the bylaws and do not see the requirement. I see that once a contract has been ratified, one is required to pay dues or a service fee.

I remember the letters that praetorian/slinghoff sent to everybody stating that he and his lawers believe that we are required to pay dues prior to contract implementation, but he never quoted the direct bylaw reference.
 
Not being an at Options anymore I don't have a copy of the By Laws. However prior to the vote, when I was at Options, the elected IBT MEC stated that dues would be required day one after a sucessful vote. The majority of pilots voted for the IBT knowing full well that this was the case. As with most things in a republic just because you object to doesn't give you the right to opt out. As far as agreeing or not with the dues the IBT provided the resources to get a contract. These things were done on behalf of the entire Flops pilot group and have costs associated with them. Who do you expect should bear the financial burden of things done to benefit you?
 
GhettoBeechjet said:
Who do you expect should bear the financial burden of things done to benefit you?
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Who decides what is a benefit? This reads like '1984.' Hi there, Big Brother. Say, now that we're talking and all, two pilots who don't work at Flops, do you think that the majority should always have the right to tell the minority that they need to pay, even when it is for a fight that the minority does not agree with?

Do you have the right to tell others what is a 'benefit?' Even when they disagree?

What kills me about these arguments is that I am dead certain that most of you are staunch republicans. You believe in individual freedom, individual responsibility, until it comes to our jobs. Not just your job, but also your fellow pilot's job. Maybe even my job. Don't you see the hypocrisy? I mean, come on.

The union won. Flops is a closed shop. Now they are paying. Can't you be satisfied?
 
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Hey here's an Oldie, but a Goodie......

wacoflyr said:
Who decides what is a benefit? This reads like '1984.' Hi there, Big Brother. Say, now that we're talking and all, two pilots who don't work at Flops, do you think that the majority should always have the right to tell the minority that they need to pay, even when it is for a fight that the minority does not agree with?

Do you have the right to tell others what is a 'benefit?' Even when they disagree?

What kills me about these arguments is that I am dead certain that most of you are staunch republicans. You believe in individual freedom, individual responsibility, until it comes to our jobs. Not just your job, but also your fellow pilot's job. Maybe even my job. Don't you see the hypocrisy? I mean, come on.


The union won. Flops is a closed shop. Now they are paying. Can't you be satisfied?
Click to expand...

Straight from the fire breathing Anti-Union folk just prior to the Union being voted in:

If you don't like it, QUIT!
 
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GhettoBeechjet said:
Not being an at Options anymore I don't have a copy of the By Laws. However prior to the vote, when I was at Options, the elected IBT MEC stated that dues would be required day one after a sucessful vote. The majority of pilots voted for the IBT knowing full well that this was the case. As with most things in a republic just because you object to doesn't give you the right to opt out. As far as agreeing or not with the dues the IBT provided the resources to get a contract. These things were done on behalf of the entire Flops pilot group and have costs associated with them. Who do you expect should bear the financial burden of things done to benefit you?
Click to expand...

If you look at the new pay scale, i would say the 6 year beechjet FO bears the financial burden of things done to benefit the 10 year plus captains. The new hires, if opts ever hires again will be the ones to pay for the benefits of the contract. I hope the union will look out for the entire Flops pilot group next time. As far as the non migs they are within their right under the contract. If they didn't want non migs, they should have made Flops a closed shop.
 
wacoflyr said:
Who decides what is a benefit? This reads like '1984.' Hi there, Big Brother. Say, now that we're talking and all, two pilots who don't work at Flops, do you think that the majority should always have the right to tell the minority that they need to pay, even when it is for a fight that the minority does not agree with?

Do you have the right to tell others what is a 'benefit?' Even when they disagree?

What kills me about these arguments is that I am dead certain that most of you are staunch republicans. You believe in individual freedom, individual responsibility, until it comes to our jobs. Not just your job, but also your fellow pilot's job. Maybe even my job. Don't you see the hypocrisy? I mean, come on.

The union won. Flops is a closed shop. Now they are paying. Can't you be satisfied?
Click to expand...


Waco the flaw you have identified is inherent to a republic or democracy. The majority decides what is best for the whole group. If you have a better solution I would recommend that you pursue a career in Political Science.

My satisfaction is not at issue here. What is at issue is that the individuals named on the list have chosen not to do the right thing. They expect someone else to pay the costs of getting the contract while they enjoy the protections that it provides them. Since they cannot be forced to pay their fair share, they are being exposed and subjected to the judgement of their peers.

My point from the begining is that I won't recommend anyone on this list for employment anywhere. That is my individual right.


Flight Options is not a closed shop. It is an agency shop.
 
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Alaska82 said:
If you look at the new pay scale, i would say the 6 year beechjet FO bears the financial burden of things done to benefit the 10 year plus captains. The new hires, if opts ever hires again will be the ones to pay for the benefits of the contract. I hope the union will look out for the entire Flops pilot group next time. As far as the non migs they are within their right under the contract. If they didn't want non migs, they should have made Flops a closed shop.
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No contract including the one under which I work at SWA is perfect. I also hope that the next contract is better than the current one. I hope this not only at Options and SWA but across the industry.

Ohio is a right to work state. A closed shop is not permitted under federal law. A Union shop is not permitted in a right to work state. Flight Options is an agency shop.
 
dime line said:
I've heard this list has made its way to Delta's hiring committee as well, and, just so happens a guy on list, is in the pool at Delta.
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Dime, You are a piece of sh!t for doing that to someone! The aviation community is a small one and your actions over this trivial gray area will be remembered if you blocked his attempts at employment.

Did you stop to think that perhaps the reason he was leaving Flops was to get away from the HARASSMENT and BULLSH!T you and your small group of buddies spread around?
 
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1folinepilot said:
.Did you stop to think that perhaps the reason he was leaving Flops was to get away from the HARASSMENT and BULLSH!T you and your small group of buddies spread around?
Click to expand...

And you think he's going to avoid union protocal at Delta? ROE in dealing with scabs goes way back before FLOPS or any other Frac ever existed. And where does Dime say he provided the list to Delta's hiring committee? Since you're so good at leaping to conclusions, I'd have to say your reaction smells like that of a scab. What list are you on?
 
1folinepilot said:
Dime, You are a piece of sh!t for doing that to someone! The aviation community is a small one and your actions over this trivial gray area will be remembered if you blocked his attempts at employment.

Did you stop to think that perhaps the reason he was leaving Flops was to get away from the HARASSMENT and BULLSH!T you and your small group of buddies spread around?
Click to expand...

I never said i sent the list to Delta, learn to read. But I do think the Delta poolie is a hypocrite for not paying his dues here at FLOPS, yet enjoying the benefits of the Delta union contract, so no I dont have a problem with the list going there or any other company for that fact. Those pilots on the list CHOOSE the path that their on
 
the two of you should learn the definition of what a scab is. Looking at the list you published, there is only one scab on that list and he is enjoying virtual bid pay while flying in the small cabin.
 
1folinepilot said:
Dime, You are a piece of sh!t for doing that to someone! The aviation community is a small one and your actions over this trivial gray area will be remembered if you blocked his attempts at employment.

Did you stop to think that perhaps the reason he was leaving Flops was to get away from the HARASSMENT and BULLSH!T you and your small group of buddies spread around?
Click to expand...

Delta pilots are UNION PILOTS. If the individual in question has chosen not to be a UNION PILOT he should not seek employment in a unionized pilot group. He is either A.) anti union or B.) self serving and doesn't want to pay his share to become a MIG. In either case you reap what you sow and the ALPA pilots on the hiring commitee at Delta need to know what they are getting.

Paying what you owe is not a gray area and is not trivial.
 
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