Flight Instructing while at a regional?

[Vicman]

nice

Thanx Freight Dawg and Koepp for the replies. The Q&A excerpts were a great help (been searchin' on google).

I'll just wait on what the CP says....Hopefully it won't be a problem since I have 450 hrs remaining.

 

[AC560]

Disclaimer Statement: The answers provided to the questions in this website are not legal interpretations. Only the FAA's Office of Chief Counsel and Regional Chief Counsel provide legal interpretations. The FAA's Office of Chief Counsel does not review this website nor does it disseminate legal interpretations through it. However, there are some answers provided in this website where the FAA Office of Chief Counsel's legal interpretations have been reprinted.

Please see my post on the first page of this thread. For those to lazy to click back a page here it is again. Flight instruction is not commercial flying.

"The FAA has determined that the compensation a certificated flight instructor receives for flight instruction is not compensation for piloting the aircraft but is rather compensation for the instruction. A certificated flight instructor who is acting as pilot in command or as a required flight crewmember and receiving compensation for his or her flight instruction is exercising only the privileges of a private pilot. A certificated flight instructor who is acting as pilot in command or as a required flight crewmember and receiving compensation for his or her flight instruction is not carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire, nor is he or she, for compensation or hire, acting as pilot in command of an aircraft. Therefore, since a certificated flight instructor who is acting as pilot in command or as a required flight crewmember and receiving compensation for his or her flight instruction is exercising the privileges of a private pilot, he or she only needs to hold a third class medical certificate"

Source

 

[koepp]

I don't mean to be a pest, but that interpretation letter is only valid for determining what type of medical certificate is required to instruct. It falls short of defining “commercial flying” and whether or not instructing counts.

I thought about instructing on the side several years ago and dug up a bunch of material on the subject (and saved it). Here is an excerpt from an interpretation that deals precisely with instructing on the side (under part 135, but the reg is the same). It’s old, but I have never come across any guidance to the contrary.



Your second question asks if this same flight crewmember may participate in the activities previously listed during a rest period if the work was done for another company, not ABC, and whether the flight crewmember could then accept an assignment with ABC for flight operations under Part 135, at the end of the rest period.

The answer is a qualified yes. ABC, as the certificate holder, has no way of forcing the flight crewmember to rest during a rest period. The prohibition against "other commercial flying" during a rest period applies to flying assigned by the certificate holder. The other commercial flying done by the flight crewmember does count against the daily 8 hour limitation if it is done before the Part 135 flying, and also counts against the pilot's quarterly and yearly flight time limitations. For example, 2 hours of "freelance" flight instruction by the pilot during his rest period limits him to only 6 hours of Part 135 flying time during that 24 consecutive hour period. Any other commercial flying done after the Part 135 flying does not count against the daily limitation, but still counts against quarterly and yearly totals.

An additional caution is that it is a violation of FAR 91.13 for a certificate holder or a flight crewmember to operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another. Lack of rest of the pilot is certainly a circumstance which could endanger others, and it is not necessary that the situation devolve into actual endangerment for there to be a violation of FAR 91.13. A certificate holder who uses a crewmember with knowledge of his or her lack of rest may be equally culpable along with the flight crewmember.


Here's the link

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org.../interpretations/data/interps/1991/Bodlak.rtf

 

[AC560]

I don't mean to be a pest, but that interpretation letter is only valid for determining what type of medical certificate is required to instruct. It falls short of defining “commercial flying” and whether or not instructing counts.

No it defines instruction as non-commercial and a function of a private pilots certificate, not a commercial certificate. The key sentence is A certificated flight instructor who is acting as pilot in command or as a required flight crewmember and receiving compensation for his or her flight instruction is exercising only the privileges of a private pilot.

 

[koepp]

Here's a definition of "commercial flying" from a 2003 interpretation. (Sorry, I am very bored today.) Feel free to pick it apart all you want - I didn't write it. Just be careful. I would get a written policy statement from the FSDO before putting my career on the line for a little side instruction. The FAA even considers flight time itself to be "compensation".



"Other commercial flying" means any nonmilitary flying as a required crewmember, other than in air transportation, for which the crewmember is paid for his or her services). So, for example, when an individual is paid (e.g., with money) for flying corporate officers on a corporate jet in Part 91 service or when an airman provides flighttraining for compensation to another, such Part 91 flying is "other commercial flying" for the corporate jet pilot and for the flight instructor.


"The other commercial flying done by the flight crewmember does count against the daily 8hour limitation if it is done before the Part 135 flying, and also counts against the pilot's quarterly and yearly flight time limitations. For example, 2 hours of `free lance' flight instruction by the pilot during his rest period limits him to only 6 hours of Part 135 flying time during that 24 consecutive hour period.


The FAA construes "compensation or hire" very broadly. It does not require a profit, a profit motive or the actual payment of funds. Instead, compensation under the FAA's view, is the receipt of anything of value. Thus, compensation for the flights as proposed would exist in two forms. First, the expenses associated with the flight would be paid by donors to the charity, not the individual pilot; and second, the pilots would acquire flight hours at the charity's expense -- flight hours that could be used to demonstrate aeronautical experience eligibility for an airman certificate.3 These forms of compensation are sufficient to require the operator to have a part 119 certificate.

 

[freightrash]

As long as you don't get paid, it's not commercial flying.

 

[The_Russian]

You have to hold a commercial certificate to gain or use the privileges of an instructor certificate. It is not considered commercial flying by the FAA which is why it does not require a 2nd class medical.

"The FAA has determined that the compensation a certificated flight instructor receives for flight instruction is not compensation for piloting the aircraft but is rather compensation for the instruction. A certificated flight instructor who is acting as pilot in command or as a required flight crewmember and receiving compensation for his or her flight instruction is exercising only the privileges of a private pilot. A certificated flight instructor who is acting as pilot in command or as a required flight crewmember and receiving compensation for his or her flight instruction is not carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire, nor is he or she, for compensation or hire, acting as pilot in command of an aircraft. Therefore, since a certificated flight instructor who is acting as pilot in command or as a required flight crewmember and receiving compensation for his or her flight instruction is exercising the privileges of a private pilot, he or she only needs to hold a third class medical certificate"

Source

AC560,

You are absolutely correct.

 

[The_Russian]

As long as you don't get paid, it's not commercial flying.

Wrong!

 

[The_Russian]

"Other commercial flying" means any nonmilitary flying as a required crewmember, other than in air transportation, for which the crewmember is paid for his or her services). So, for example, when an individual is paid (e.g., with money) for flying corporate officers on a corporate jet in Part 91 service or when an airman provides flighttraining for compensation to another, such Part 91 flying is "other commercial flying" for the corporate jet pilot and for the flight instructor.


"The other commercial flying done by the flight crewmember does count against the daily 8hour limitation if it is done before the Part 135 flying, and also counts against the pilot's quarterly and yearly flight time limitations. For example, 2 hours of `free lance' flight instruction by the pilot during his rest period limits him to only 6 hours of Part 135 flying time during that 24 consecutive hour period.


The FAA construes "compensation or hire" very broadly. It does not require a profit, a profit motive or the actual payment of funds. Instead, compensation under the FAA's view, is the receipt of anything of value. Thus, compensation for the flights as proposed would exist in two forms. First, the expenses associated with the flight would be paid by donors to the charity, not the individual pilot; and second, the pilots would acquire flight hours at the charity's expense -- flight hours that could be used to demonstrate aeronautical experience eligibility for an airman certificate.3 These forms of compensation are sufficient to require the operator to have a part 119 certificate.

Official source please?

How is a flight instructor providing instruction a "required crewmember"?

 

[flyboyike]

If you fly for an airline and instruct on the side, whether instructing is really interpreted as commercial flying or not isn't the point. The restriction is usually in your airline's FOM, not the FARs.

Exactly right. Best to get clarification from one's own Cheif Pilot or Director of Ops.