flexjet

[flexlrpilot357]

LJ45JI,

All I can say is, if you were in charge, or if it was your money, you'd do the same thing. Either that or we'd all be worried about our jobs.

Let me ask you this: How do you handle your personal finances? Do you throw caution to the wind and buy whatever you want, go out to eat at nice restaurants every night? Do you rack up huge credit card bills? Do you dress like a GQ cover? Or do you budget yourself carefully, save money every month, put money in your 401(k), etc.

Why should a company behave any differently? Flexjet is not the Federal Government! Flexjet has to be responsible. It's a business, and has to be profitable.

If you're too immature to understand this, you're part of the "morale problem". Please leave.

btw, it's not 30-minute turns, and I'm usually overfed on the road.

 

[NJA Capt]

flexlrpilot357
Maybe you should put down the Montreal kool-aid at take a closer look.

You stated that Flex was "taking a breather." Why would you take a breather in the middle of the biggest boom time in fractional history. Since 1998, Flexjet has gained 59 aircraft, Flight Options has gained 100, and NJA has grown from 200 to 400 aircraft! Don't you think it's time to sell some airplanes over there?

Congrats on the PGA thing, I guess. Don't you think your other owners are going to be a little upset that the golfers are getting a "preferred" rate? Maybe if they weren't giving away the pilots money, you wouldn't be in the Comfort Inn.

If you have no desire to improve, they aren't motivated to improve it for you. Don't settle, you deserve more.

 

[FlexNoMore]

We've heard your voice too often!

flexrpilot357,

Funny how you always try to take the conversation to the same level regardless of the subject matter. Its not about LR45JI personal finance or anyone else’s finances, its about the basic failure of FLEX to maintain the trust of the pilot group through their words and actions. Over and over again the working people have paid the price for Princeton's failures.

Lack of planning, combined with there grossly overly optimistic projections has caused a great deal of trouble for a significant number of flight crew. I offer as proof the number of flight crew leaving and the ongoing union effort now taking place. Has FLEX cooked the books to turn a profit as much as they cooked the truth in getting folks to come to work for FLEX. The budget process at FLEX, its first priority is to ensure that the corporate folks maintain their bonuses and bennefits, if the masses don’t like it they can hit the road. Your words flexr357plt, not mine.

A slide in standard of living combined with the lack of understanding or caring about the long-term effect on employees, service, safety, morale will contribute to the company's inability to remain viable.

THE CURRENT RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN EMPLOYER AND EMPLOYEE DOES NOT HAPPEN IN A COMPANY THAT TAKES CARE OF BUSINESS AND ITS EMPLOYEES< FACT NOT FICTION.

It's not about a few malcontents, it's about doing the right thing! Try it sometimes flexrpilot357.

G2BG

 

[Semore Butts]

Same old stuff

The weekly message was the same old stuff, non commital, vague information, lacking commitment. I was hoping for some detailed information about our future, I got none.
Flexr357? Is that your seniority number? I had ask in the other post how long you had been at Flex? I never got an answer, just a basically lame attack indicating what a malcontent you think I am.
I remember someone telling my back in November about how we had weeded out a bunch of losers at the priceton. I told them that alot of those people had been there a long time. Her answer was, well I don't care, they had bad attitudes. I ask her how long she had been there? Her answer? Just about a year!
I suspect the same about you Flexr357.
I have good news for you 357! You are about to move up 1!
I will be resigning soon. I know you will be glad to see me go, though you don't know me from Adam, or what I'm all about. I'm sure with your low opinion of me, my saying that I will miss Flex will probably be meaningless.
I wish only the best to the people at Flex. I have had some great times there.
Good luck to you! Your attitude will sustain you. I hope you are right about the long term survival.
However, I'm looking for a career, not a position.
Flexnomore, Gump, Jpilot, I'm on the way!!!!!!!!!
Save me a seat!

 

[Muddauber]

Gosh, ya'all are right. Flexjet should be designing its whole business model around pilot satisfaction, not profitability...

I like your post, intelligent, non-emotional, wrought with common sense and loyal to the folks that pay you.

 

[flexlrpilot357]

Thanks, Muddauber.

The problem at Flexjet boils down to this: about 2 years ago we were in a mad hiring spree, forecasting huge growth. "2000 pilots!" they said. We hired some younger fellows who hadn't "payed dues" in the business as I'm sure you and I understand it. (Try riding out multiple bankruptcies and strikes with kids at home. Sorry, I don't feel bad for you. This will pass.)

Then, suprisingly enough, the business takes a cyclical dip, these guys aren't upgrading as fast as they thought, and pressure comes from the top to show a profit. The business goes through a truly mild reorganizational phase. While the young guys were busy feeling lied to and cheated, and their feelings and morale were being hurt, lots of us older guys were concerned about the health of the company, mostly because we realized that the health of the company is intrinsically tied to the duration of our paychecks. The FOs were only concerned about their upgrades. They really couldn't see much further than their... noses about it all.

We had people who had never (well, maybe once before) held a jet PIC position before screaming about their 8 month upgrade being flushed away. It would have been laughable if some of us didn't have to listen to it all the time.

Note: This is NOT true about all FOs!!! It's the only referring to the 5% who make 95% of the noise. My hat's off to the other 95% who are true professionals, and welcome to fly my family any day. (The highest compliment you can pay an aviator, I think)

Semore, I've been at Flex longer than you have. People have been squawking about unions since before I got here. That doesn't impress me one way or the other. Every pilot wants a union because they think they can run the business better than the business man. That's because we're control freaks by nature. The difference between you and me is I know it.

NJA Capt.: I saw the Berkshire Hathaway report. You lost money. You guys will turn it around, but I know for a fact that FlOps isn't in good financial shape. If you have any business knowledge you should be able to paint a picture of their shape based on publically available information. They're holding it together with string and bubble gum.

Flexnomore, there's nothing wrong with my workplace. It's safe, it's fun, and I'm fairly compensated. I don't need management people to give me hugs to make me feel loved. All I need is to feel like they're doing their jobs, keeping the company afloat until I retire or move on. And I do. Experience and intellect tells me so. The fact that you're on here claiming otherwise says more about you than I care to.

Semore, you say you're leaving. Do what you have to do if it isn't working out for you. That I can respect. Getting on the internet to air your grievances about your employer is beneath contempt. It's pretty chickens**t, to tell the truth. You perpetuate the bad feelings, and stand to do harm to your "pilot brothers".

 

[Semore Butts]

Telling the truth is chicken sH^%&???

Flex357,

You know what, we differ so much in opinion it's not even funny. But I respect your right to your opinion. You are straight forward, and stick to your convictions.
How do you know you have been at Flex longer then me? I'll be getting 3 weeks vacation here in a few months.
How do we go from an estimated 2000 pilots by 2004 to zip?
I do understand that pilots are control freaks,
I think it's a necessity.
But I know I have a bad attitude and am a bad apple according to you. I'm just to old to follow this management theory of "you just do what your told, I know whats best for you".
I certainly don't think it's the job of a union to run the business. That's managements job. The union is to represent the employees as a whole. Please don't tell me that unions have run any companies out of business. Bad management runs companies out of business.
I agree that we were fairly compensated the first year. But the pay scale was just slapped down with the thought that people were upgrading within about a year.
Where would you have me aire my grievences? On the bluebelly?
There are two sides to every story. I got on at the beginning of this string and told someone asking questions what I felt were truthfull answers.
So I guess you saying that it's OK for you to get on the internet and tell me what a bunch of whining young guys your fellow pilots are. So anybody with a different opinion then yours is a whining loser? It's OK for you to give the positive side about Flex, but it's not OK for someone to present what is wrong or could improve?
Then you start making personal attacks on me being a chicken Sh*&.
Well there it is I guess!
Muddauber, good luck on your contract in 2004.

 

[flexlrpilot357]

Relax, Semore, I don't even know you, so I'm not making a personal attack. I'm speaking very generally.

Let me ask you this: When you get on here and start presenting your "side", what service are you providing. Who are you helping? Or are you just blowing off steam?

Maybe if the (not necessarily your) disatisfied opinions were presented as such, and not as "truths", I wouldn't have a problem with it. You are entitled to your opinion, of course. It's what you do with that opinion that is important. Do you act constructively, talk to management about your concerns? Do you find a job that's a little bit more what you want? Do you get on the internet and trash the place, dragging it through the mud, kicking your fellow crewmembers in the cojones?

Semore, re-read my posts. I didn't give the "positive" side about Flex. I attempted to provide the whole truth. I gave details about the schedule, details about pay, details about hotels, about bidding. I didn't say, "it sucks, they're screwing me, it's not fair, they're all Hitler youth!"

I reported, you gave a bitter editorial.

 

[Semore Butts]

When your right your right.

Thanks Flexlr357,

I didn't really look at it like that. It does appear bitter.

The service I was providing was an opinion of alot of "line dog FO's" and Cpt's, things have gone downhill quite a bit as far as quality of living on the road, and work loads.

But I guess that about says it. I've lost all faith.

I've told what I thought to be the truth, about a company that has changed alot in the past 2+ years.

You are correct again, these are my opinions, and I believe them to be truths.

I went back through my posts and didn't see anywhere where I said It's not fair, they are Hitler Youth, and I don't recall saying they were screwing us. I believe as you that facts are facts.

Your right again, I guess I'm just blowing off steam because I'm so frustrated by the vague information we get down from most high.

I never meant anything but constructive criticism.

I don't think Flex's success or failure will be decided out on the line, or at the Princeton. Flex's fate will be decided in another country.

If I thought as you do that Flex was absolutely going to be around for the long haul, I would stay.

We all have choices to make, I have chosen to be bitter and frustrated. Thanks to talking (or whatever you want to call it) to you, I have realized that I have a choice wether to look at the bad and be bitter, or look at the good, and say it will get even better.


Here's to Ya,

 

[Frac Daddy]

flexlrpilot357,


"I know for a fact that FlOps isn't in good financial shape." Tell me, how exactly do you know the financial shape of a privately held company?

 

[Pilot's Wife]

I have read with much interest the posts on this thread. It's about time some people showed an interest in Flexjet. I especially am interested in the posts from former Flex employees and those about to be ex-Flex employees.

Flexjet has been very good to my family. We have little negative to say about this place. But I can definately understand some of the feelings, especially those from 2-3 year FO's, that are expressed here. Some of them I find much more valid than others. Anyone who gets on here and talks about the disappointment at not making captain (ie: captain pay) has every right to be upset. I know how hard it was for us to come up with the cash every rotation when we were at FO pay. Financially it can be very straining especially living in any of the 3 gateways - all of which are expensive. I don't know how some of them have done it for 3 years. I truly empathize with you. When you plan to make in the 50's in about a year and 3 years later are still in the 30's it can be very disheartening.

Flex also had several months of turmoil/chaos with firings, bad schedules because of PBS and hotel problems. But those problems seem to be behind Flexjet.

PBS started out rough but the company seems to be making an honest effort to fix those issues. I know we have seen in the last couple of months a much better award each time - and it is not because my husband is senior. Changes always cause problems at first. Its how you handle them that matters. Flex is hiring now and you all know that the new aircraft projections in the next year are very good and we are making a profit. I haven't heard any other fractional declaring that. The hotels were a big problem at first because Flex hadn't set up their exclusions, but they are honestly working that out. You report a bad hotel and its taken off the list. It took a few bad months to work that out. And no, not everyone thinks they need to stay at Hiltons. The price of the hotel room is no guarantee of its cleanliness. I think Dateline/20/20 - one of those type of shows - did a show on that subject and expensive hotels had the same cleanliness/safety issues as the Comfort Inns.

The future looks bright at Flexjet, in my opinion. No it is not perfect. I think EJA is probably a great place to work also. We have friends that work there and they like it very much. But we know people that like Flexjet also. It all is about what you want. I hope you all got what you wanted! We have.

 

[Semore Butts]

Great to hear from you!

Pilot Wife,


It's always refreshing to hear from you. You always have a positive yet subjective view.

I am leaving Flex soon.
As Flexlr357 said I have become bitter.
That ain't no way to run a railroad. It's not fair to flex, it's not fair to me.
I am heading for EJ to join alot of other former flex.
I decided this, in the short run, I will be ahead with Flex, In the medium run, I will be even, in the long run, I will be ahead.
It's not about money, it's about having someone as supportive as you at home standing by my side.
EJ offers that hands down. More time at home.

Take care, great to hear from you.

 

[flexlrpilot357]

Pilot's Wife,

I think you're very fair in your assessment of Flexjet.

It's a good company, not a perfect company. It's also a very evolving company, not a poorly run company. It's a profitable company, not a break-the-pilot's-back company.

It's truly unfortunate that FOs had tough breaks over the past few years. I feel for them, I remember making $18K and then $30K, trying to live. That's not anyone's fault, that's just business.

I understand people's disappointment. I'd probably feel the same way if the shoe was on the other foot. The anger and negativity I've seen, I hope I wouldn't display.

Flexjet is getting better and better. PBS is getting better because pilots understand it better and changes are being made. Also, demand is down this part of the year I bet.

Firings can and do happen anywhere.

NJA Captain, re: PGA. Ever read an owner contract? They're all different. That's business, baby.

Semore, I honestly hope you get what you want.

 

[LXJ31]

Staying with Flexjet

I've been at Flexjet going on two years and while it certainly hasn't been like I'd pictured it, I do enjoy my job and look forward to hopefully a long career here. Most of my tenure has been marked with constant changes and uncertainty. However, my experience is that its begun to smooth out and I feel confident about the future. ExecJet sounds like a great place to work too, I wish the EJ and other frac crews all the best. But I plan on sticking with Flexjet; I like the people I work with (most of 'em), its safe and professional in operations and the training department, I like the aircraft I fly, I get paid decently and I like the direction management is headed. Thats not to say that things don't happen or decisions aren't made that don't give me heartburn, but such is life. (A triple negative, my english prof would have been proud.) I am well aware that aviation business and the economy as a whole have their various cycles which is the main reason I haven't bailed out over the slow upgrades or other negative aspects. Hopefully, we will continue to strive for improvement in all facets of our business and quality of life.

Do whats right for you and yours fearlessly.

 

[ukcats]

Hey Flexlr357. Over here at NJA, we do stay at Hiltons exclusively (unless absolutely not available), we do choose the meal we want, and we are growing at a phenominal rate. And you know what? We are all happy (for the most part). I am another one of those "malcontents" (is that latin for "one who doesn't have his head up and locked"?) that left Flex because it wasn't a good place to work. Would have been working on 3 year FO pay if I hadn't left. Made captain here in less than a year (could have been quicker. I chose to wait. Choice is good). Every aspect of the job is better.

My question is why do you so aggressively defend Flex, when you don't know how bad it is compared the other fracs? There are several people who do know what it is like compared to other fracs, there posts are a lot more credible than yours. Your 3rd grade name calling tactics don't help Flexjet's already tarnished image in the aviation community. Don't forget that there are a lot of folks reading this, who are considering the fractionals as a career option.