flexjet

[flexlrpilot357]

One more thing, there was an outright lie in a previous post. there is no such thing as 2 days off, unless you specifically waive for it. I have done so specifically so I could have a particular day off (a wedding), because that was the only way it would work. I got the day off that I wanted.

 

[Semore Butts]

Spoken like a true (I've got mine) Cpt

I would have to assume by the previous post that the person is a Cpt.
Where did you get your math degree bub? If you are hiring F.O's into the right seat of the Challenger, you are blocking the Lear Cpt's from moving into the right seat, and letting an F.O. upgrade into the Lear left seat. Just changing that would be a great morale booster for the pilots.
357 is correct, as time goes on people are learning how to properly use the bid system. But only recently was it changed that allowed you to get at least 4 days off between 7 day rotations. I hope the 2 day off remark wasn't pointed at me because I didn't say that.
357 is also correct in pointing out that there are some restraints, and that the schedule is based on crew demand. The company demand is the first priority, and of course profitabiliy is what keeps us in business, right? Get more work, with less pilots!
357 please re-state your sentence, there are F.O.'s past the 2 and 1/2 year mark with no indication from the company of when any upgrades' will come. I have heard August, but then I heard there would be some "great news in June".
357 is right, the people working in the office are nice people, and the pilots are the "salt of the earth". I like Flex alot, and am agonizing over having to go find another job. People who are hired in now know that the upgrade time has been lengthened to several years. When I hired in we were told 2000 pilots by 2004. The guys we are hiring now are to replace the pilots leaving. It is very common knowledge that the managements attitude is, "If you don't like it leave", to qoute one of the supervisors. That's all I'll say about that.
357 is correct in my opinion, the guys that are bitching about the CLC, are probably the guys that were bitchin about putting it on their credit card. I was not one of them. They pictured it to be like they were "real live airline pilots" where they would walk in and grab a key and go. That's not the case.
So let me end by saying that if you go in knowing that you will not be upgraded for a few years, that bottom line profit for the company and not quality of life for you is item one, that you have no protection from being terminated at any time, then you will be fine. There are of course many other issues. I know 357 thinks I'm a whining "bad apple". So be it, If I were making Cpt pay, I would probably be saying the same thing he is.
The coming of the Continental will be an exciting time for Flex in the near (we hope) future. How they are gonna staff it, and what the pay will be is a whole other can of worms to be open at a later date. Will the Union be voted in? That's yet to be seen. That puts us in a "catch 22" as well. If company was going to "throw us a bone", it wouldn't be wise until after the union vote fails, or whenever they are bargaining for the first contract.
Again, lot's of good people at Flex. Lots of change going on. It will be an interesting next few years.
357, I hope we can have a beer some time. I consider myself a professional, and I consider you one as well. I'm glad we can have different opinions, and speak our minds here. There are different views for every situation. Take care.

 

[flexlrpilot357]

Semore, maybe we HAVE had a beer together before!

Regarding the CL thing:

In the "old days", we'd get a CL, some CL FOs would upgrade, some Lear Captains would move into the right seat of the CL, and some Lear FOs would upgrade in a Learjet.

Say we get a new Challenger now. What happens next? Lear Captains move into the Left seat of the CL. We hire FO's for it, or even move some FOs from other fleets if those ratios need to be adjusted, right? Then some FOs are upgraded to fill the Lear Captain seats that were emptied.

What's the difference? There was a difference for a while, as the Senior CL FOs upgraded in their ship, and new FOs began to populate the airplane, but now there isn't a difference I can think of. It drives the same number of upgrades.

 

[flexlrpilot357]

Assuming...

Semore, I'll assume by your nickname that you're an ass man.

 

[Semore Butts]

Ass man, you bet!!!! Why not?

I still don't agree with you man.

If 4 Challenger F.O.s leave, and they hire 4 more CL F.O.'s, there is no movement among the Lear Cpt's.

If 4 CL F.O.'s leave and they put in 4 Lear Cpt's, then that leaves 4 Lear Cpt positions, result movement, and upgrade.

I have recently heard that actual rumor, about going back to the old way. I would sure like to see that happen.

Thanks for respecting my opinion 357.

Now, whoever it was that pasted my post over to the union site;

Bad Dog!!!!! BBAAAAADDDD DDDDOOOGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That gives the impresssion that I'm pro-union.

That is a personal decision that we as pilots are going to have to make should a vote occur.

It's gonna be hard on us all, no matter which way it goes.

Just remember, the whole idea was originally to do this because we love it so much. Lets' no lose sight of that.

 

[flexlrpilot357]

R**, you are right, but the career progression wasn't designed around attrition. It was designed around normal fleet growth. I don't think any company designs career paths around attrition like that.

I certainly respect your opinion. You are a professional, and a human being, and you are entitled to your opinion. On the other hand, you'd better be able to logically defend it!

 

[Humblepilot]

Sidebar

Does anyone know how long you can anticipate from submitting the application to potential interview is running right now?

And what the competitive minimums are?

Humble

 

[vixin]

Mins are 2500tt, 500 multi and 500 turbine and they stick to these mins.
As for how long it takes its anyones guess. Did you have anyone walk your resume in? That would help tremendously. It needs to get in the hands of Karen Parr. That will get you ahead of all the others with out a recommendation.
If you have any other questions feel free to post or pm me. I will be glad to help any way I can.

 

[bayoubandit]

I faxed my resume in and had it walked in twice by a FlexJet pilot. Also a few other Flex pilots I know put in a good word. This was months ago. I have talked to them on the phone 3-4 times following up, I forget by now, and I haven't heard crap. I live 15 minutes from TEB, which they said they liked since they were looking for guys to be based at TEB.

FWIW, the guys I know there don't really like it and most are looking or counting the days until they can get out. My only guess is that since I am a furloughed major guy, they weren't interested or else my connections have bad reputations. Who knows, but I'm still looking. If your furloughed, forget about sticking your nose around TEB looking for a job, they don't like us furloughed types to much.

 

[vixin]

I do not know what your problems is. Maybe one of your so called friends didnt do you any favors. I know the last class had three USAirways guys in it. I had a friend from USAirways hired three months ago. I dont know! Just like the rest of this industry, hiring is crazy. The is no rhyme or reason why most of us do not get hired and others do. Look at how many of us airlines overlooked just to take lower qualified individuals. Keep trying and good luck.
As for your other comments. Things are getting better here at Flex and some of our guys are a little narrow minded. I know b/c I used to be one of them. Maybe we will organize and have a bigger voice. However, some pilots wouldnt be happy flying 3 days a month making $200,00 a year and living wherever they wanted. Some just arent happy unless they are complaining. Those that are should give until the beginning of next year. I think they will be very surprised. Every pilot group has the bad apples and rotten apples.

 

[flexlrpilot357]

Bayou Bandit

I don't understand why you're so excited about a job that "nobody likes anyway". With that attitude, glad we didn't hire ya.

 

[gump88]

Those that are should give until the beginning of next year. I think they will be very surprised.

Why will they be very surprised? Do you really think that your company will match or exceed the new Netjets payscale and working conditions thats coming next year? Come on, get real!

gump

 

[Semore Butts]

Who's to say?

I'm sure that there will be some change coming in the next few months, and some of it will be good for some of the F.O.'s.
But for the vast majority, they are still looking at years to upgrade, and an upper management that really doesn't give a Sh^* wether they are happy or not.
You that are with Flex know that managements attitude is we can get pilots, and if you don't like it here we will write you a recommendation.
Now at face value, that may sound pretty noble, what would be noble is delivering on about half of the promises they have made.
I feel life will indeed improve alot eventually if the union comes in or when the pilot market opens up and sucks up all the excess.
But for now? Enjoy the Comfort Inn on your CLC card, and dream of that bonus you didn't get last year, and the cost of living raise you didn't get, and sleep well, for tommorrow is another 14 hour day of a 7 and maybe 4 rotation.
I could go on and on and on. What truly makes Flexjet is the geat "line dogs"s they have out there on the line. You are all great people, don't let them take that away from you.

 

[vixin]

Gump,

Yes they will match what netjets gets and beat it!! If we are union or not. Both companies have thier problems. It is just a shame that pilots like yourself are so quick to rain on others parades. Whether or not you like flexjet their are those of us that make the best of the situation we are in. But then again I am sure things are perfect at netjets, right? I run into netjets pilots everyday that are unhappy as well as options and our own flexjetters. Like I said before some people would never be happy. Before you tout me as an office puke I am not. I am an FO still waiting to upgrade, however, I have decided to look at the positve at Flex until things get better or I can move on. I figure it is the best for my well being. Have a good one!!

 

[gump88]

Gump,

It is just a shame that pilots like yourself are so quick to rain on others parades. Whether or not you like flexjet their are those of us that make the best of the situation we are in. But then again I am sure things are perfect at netjets, right? I run into netjets pilots everyday that are unhappy as well as options and our own flexjetters.

HOLD ON PARTNER!!!! I am not raining on anybody's parade. I was just simply asking a question in a slightly sarcastic kind of way. If I offended you, I apologize. Don't be so offensive my aviation compadre. We are still hiring!!!


gump

 

[FlexNoMore]

Same ole same ole Flex mis infomation. You work more days at Flex than any other FRAX, you get paid less, what so had to figure out. 18 plus days a month versus 15 days a month, duh!

Let not talk about all the other stupid BS that comes out of Princeton. Flex is kinda like a lab experiment gone real bad, they just don't know how to end it with out serious legal implications. No one will buy them out, who would want the mess.

Fleet growth, where, LR45, everything else is declining, no Globals nothing but pain and BS for the forseeable future.

I feel for all the good people working the line 7 days on and 3 days off, what a great schedule, it took 3 years and 3 million dollars for Princeton to work out the details on that little jewel for screwing the Flight Crews.

Very poor choice if you looking for employment in the Frax world, go any place but Flex and you WILL BE BETTER OFF!!!

FlexNoMore

 

[LR25]

Why doesnt flex try to change things for the better?

Whats the problem, is someones "vision" of how it should be getting in the way.

Im not sure if it was a good thing to bacically turn an interview down about 7 months ago, but I did, just because of all the bad publicity.

Oh well. And not wanting to drive to FLL evey 4 days.

 

[sweptwingz]

Punch out now!

I had a recent tour with a former Flex Lear driver as my F/O. He said
he knows of dozens of Flex drivers that have submitted packets to Netjets.
He also told me that when he was interviewed, that hiring said that we were
giving priority to former frax employees, since they were basically "turn key"
ready when hired. He was thrilled to be at Netjets and said that there was
no comparison as to the pay, quality of life, equipment, and training. Netjets
won....hands down. Those were his words, not mine.
(He will upgrade on the C-650 in less than 12 months after his hire date if he wishes to.)

By the way, to the best of my knowledge, there had NEVER been a Netjets pilot in the history of the company, that has left it to go to Flexjets.

 

[jpilot]

That goes the same for:

Travel Air/Flight Options pilots. A good 200 former Travel Air pilots also want to go to NetJets. Why? The quality of life we enjoyed with Travel Air is gone. 14 hour plus days for 8 days straight is not my idea of "safe" or fun flying. Going to a hotel, being called out 15 minutes later, so much for rest. I could go on and on.

It is great to see that NetJets have pulled us out of the stack as we love this type of flying, it just isn't fun anymore once we merged with FO. For those of us fortunate enough to get hired at NetJets, we are happy again. Life is good at NetJets. We are here to stay.

 

[Toploader]

Heard recently that for the first time in modern history NJA has hired Ultra captains right off the street. Word is that one of these folks was a FlexJet lear 60 captain.

I sure do hate that others are having a rough time, especially Flex guys.

Good news is that (if the projected 3000 pilot number is still good)there is room here at NJA for all who want to come over, it's just going to take some time!

Best of luck to all who apply.

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