Flexjet Union

[Pacific]

Disregard

 

[V1 Rotate]

.....

 

[V1 Rotate]

As of today, every team except one, has withdrawn from this program. Great job those of you who made the right decision. You last five need to get on the right side of this.

Not true. And I assure you there are more than 5-10 people who are interested.

 

[V1 Rotate]

The hybrid program was different. Don't use that program as another justification for your decision. The hybrid program was wholly owned aircraft that required crews to move so it couldn't be forced on people. Two completely different situations. We are still waiting on the dedicated program info. If it ends up paying less will you still voluntarily do the same job for less money than a fleet captain?

The long answer to your question of pay is "no."

And the hybrids were not completely different. Junior FO's could still upgrade and the fact that there were a set of different rules makes it even more like the dedicated program. If you were willing to accept the change in lifestyle then you were allowed to reap the benefits. i.e. early upgrade.

 

[asdf]

You guys should read some textbooks about different systems that employees are measured. Seniority has its inherit weakness, yes the marginal and very weak are secure of their job based on seniority and not performance. The good thing about seniority it tends to keep employees around for a long time. A performance based system has its good and bad characteristics as well. Its like pilots have never thought about any of these things.

 

[asdf]

Yes, what a bad day for all the junior employees at Flex. There is no opportunity, the very people that accuse the junior employees of being selfish should take a hard look in the mirror. They are selfish too, some of their post on yammer where despicable and one of the guys I will never respect again. It is clear he has his standards captains position - just as long as no one else will ever be promoted he is happy. Hope the external new hires enjoy flying the 350 as the pilot group has made it impossible for fellow junior Flex employees to be promoted.

 

[Pacific]

Seriously? So the company is not going to just let you step all over the seniority list and you are pissed about it...Boohoo

 

[asdf]

nevermind.

 

[asdf]

nevermind, not worth my time.

 

[dime line]

And we also need you Flight Options pilots to show us what it means to be union. You want us to join you, show us that you aren't just a bunch of backstabbing opportunists.

How do you backstab......its in writing/ can't be changed.... So again no backstabbing

 

[993_Pilot]

And we also need you Flight Options pilots to show us what it means to be union. You want us to join you, show us that you aren't just a bunch of backstabbing opportunists.

The vast majority of us are not. The few coming over to Flex are mostly selfish "fence sitters" and/or not members in good standing, and not many of us are sad to see them go. These tools are being used by KR to help divide and conquer. If you really want to know what the IBT 1108 is about, contact the leadership directly, and ask questions instead of assuming that a few vocal personalities here on FI represent the entire union.

 

[luckydog]

Yes, what a bad day for all the junior employees at Flex. There is no opportunity, the very people that accuse the junior employees of being selfish should take a hard look in the mirror. They are selfish too, some of their post on yammer where despicable and one of the guys I will never respect again. It is clear he has his standards captains position - just as long as no one else will ever be promoted he is happy. Hope the external new hires enjoy flying the 350 as the pilot group has made it impossible for fellow junior Flex employees to be promoted.

This is a bit overly dramatic isn't it?
If this concept were to go through there is absolutely no guarantee that any seat in any new airframe added at FJ would be held by a current FJ pilot! That would surely kill any advancement. As long as our seniority list is followed you have the same opportunity as always. If seniority isn't followed either by promoting new hire Options guys or off the street guys, then vote to organize.

My point is to wait until we are actually wronged before using the only ace we have. If we as a pilot group fold at the first bet then this is going to be are very bad ride.

As to the standards captain thing, is anyone surprised? I hope not.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

"If our FJ management isn't running the show, we'll organize. If we lose our pension, we'll organize. If they change anything on our "contract", we'll organize. If new pilots are paid more than we are, we'll organize. If junior pilots get to upgrade out of seniority, we'll organize. If we have dedicated crewing, we'll organize. If anyone but FJ pilots fly the Globals, we'll organize. If we have to wear some captain cupcake costume, we'll organize."

Collectively, the FJ pilots keep moving the line. Where & when does it end? You've been consistent only about saying the 1108 is bad and shaking your fist at uncle threatening to organize if he takes just one more step.

Then you've done nothing but roll over and waited for his next slap.

 

[luckydog]

"If our FJ management isn't running the show, we'll organize. If we lose our pension, we'll organize. If they change anything on our "contract", we'll organize. If new pilots are paid more than we are, we'll organize. If junior pilots get to upgrade out of seniority, we'll organize. If we have dedicated crewing, we'll organize. If anyone but FJ pilots fly the Globals, we'll organize. If we have to wear some captain cupcake costume, we'll organize."

Collectively, the FJ pilots keep moving the line. Where & when does it end? You've been consistent only about saying the 1108 is bad and shaking your fist at uncle threatening to organize if he takes just one more step.

Then you've done nothing but roll over and waited for his next slap.

Of all those things you've listed, what has actually happened?

New ugly uniforms, not serious enough to warrant the loss of seniority of integration.

New hires from FLOPs making more than the minimum, cool, less than the minimum, not cool.

 

[el raton]

You guys should read some textbooks about different systems that employees are measured. Seniority has its inherit weakness, yes the marginal and very weak are secure of their job based on seniority and not performance. The good thing about seniority it tends to keep employees around for a long time. A performance based system has its good and bad characteristics as well. Its like pilots have never thought about any of these things.

Looks like you had your knee pads ready!! You were more than willing to show the pilot group at Flex how a "kiss a$$" kisses a$$ in order to screw their fellow pilots so you can get your upgrade out of seniority.

What's bad is, you did this while making ~$100k a year.

You greedy pos! We have a good job and your greed is tearing the company apart. Remember it's a small industry!

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

really, luckydog? In the time it took you think up that red herring, you could have read half of them on any number of threads here.

 

[luckydog]

really, luckydog? In the time it took you think up that red herring, you could have read half of them on any number of threads here.

I'm really not a fish guy so I have no idea what herring you're talking about.

I gave up my pension years ago, I'm still getting a 401k match, and as far as I know the enhanced match is still there. There are no dedicated crew aircraft at Flexjet and the FLOPs pilots are flying (or will be flying) on Globals owned by Nextant.

I know you want to make a big deal over it all but it just hasn't happened yet. Give it time, someone from mgmt will eventually cross that "line in the sand". Then, if, the pilots don't act you can criticize. Until then, back off with the spineless crap. I'm sure you guys at FLOPs had your cards in the mail before you even started getting screwed right? That's why you lead the fractional industry in pay and QOL.

You're not under any threat from FJ crews so stay out of our business and we'll do the same. Just STFU for awhile and let things unfold at their own pace. When things finally do swing towards organizing it will be difficult to play the hero role when you've been playing antagonist role for so long.

 

[OldCrow]

FLOPs Pilot

I have got a lot of things I would rather use the $108/month than Union dues: however, it is well spent. I am a 15 year PIC and make $103,000/year. As of "right now", I have flown 748hrs this year.
With out the CBA of duty times, scheduling, no call in rest, maintenance resolution process, and being able to contact my Union Rep when things were beyond what I could do, physically, and beyond the CBA, this year would have been worse.
Granted, I'm glad that I flew so much, and made money for the company I fly for, BUT I have called fatigue 3 times this year. Without the protection of the CBA I would be a hurting Unit, me thinks. I am not a "dyed in the Union wool" guy, but without our CBA it would have been a year that I would not want to do again.
That's how this year was at FOLPs for me. If you FLEX guys think you'll get a better deal, drive on, and God Speed....but I think you might want to give this Union thing a look.
I think you all fly bout half as much as I have...and make 30-40% more....really, how long do you think that will pass, with your new/our leadership?

 

[dime line]

I have got a lot of things I would rather use the $108/month than Union dues: however, it is well spent. I am a 15 year PIC and make $103,000/year. As of "right now", I have flown 748hrs this year.
With out the CBA of duty times, scheduling, no call in rest, maintenance resolution process, and being able to contact my Union Rep when things were beyond what I could do, physically, and beyond the CBA, this year would have been worse.
Granted, I'm glad that I flew so much, and made money for the company I fly for, BUT I have called fatigue 3 times this year. Without the protection of the CBA I would be a hurting Unit, me thinks. I am not a "dyed in the Union wool" guy, but without our CBA it would have been a year that I would not want to do again.
That's how this year was at FOLPs for me. If you FLEX guys think you'll get a better deal, drive on, and God Speed....but I think you might want to give this Union thing a look.
I think you all fly bout half as much as I have...and make 30-40% more....really, how long do you think that will pass, with your new/our leadership?

Like Hotels at FLOPS, if the preferred is sold out, we don't go "up" in quality, we go "down" in quality. If FLEX thinks Ricci will keep paying 145000 for a Lear capt (if he doesn't have to), your sadly mistaken.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

lucky, gee, I must have really struck a nerve! Stay out of our business? STFU for awhile? Backoff with the spineless crap? My oh my! That's all the incentive I need to keep speaking, thanks.