Flexjet Union Drive on the move

[Humphreybogart]

Better read the post I brought up about the support you'd receive from your 1108 "brothers". Sounds like they'd let you hang out to dry should you need them. Hmmm, something to think about, huh?

 

[GEXDriver]

The Flex guys would be maroons to vote in 1108.

All they have to do is look at Flops to see what the union has done to that organization. Organizing killed the raise that management was trying to give them. Quality of life and compensation has gone into the toilet since they voted in the Teamsters. They now have an adversarial relationship with management and are working counter to the leadership's simple desire to develop a business plan that will keep Flops in business.

Flops executives weren't against organizing - they just wanted a cooperative union that worked with management for the betterment of the company. The example they cited was SWAPA at Southwest. But noooooo, the pilots at Flops wanted to punish management and in the final analysis all they have done is punish themselves.

 

[dime line]

Hump You know nothing about what "support" that they will recieve from "Your 1108 Brothers"

Again you have no clue

 

[Frac Daddy]

GEXDriver,

The Flex guys would be maroons to vote in 1108.

All they have to do is look at Flops to see what the union has done to that organization. Organizing killed the raise that management was trying to give them. Quality of life and compensation has gone into the toilet since they voted in the Teamsters. They now have an adversarial relationship with management and are working counter to the leadership's simple desire to develop a business plan that will keep Flops in business.

Flops executives weren't against organizing - they just wanted a cooperative union that worked with management for the betterment of the company. The example they cited was SWAPA at Southwest. But noooooo, the pilots at Flops wanted to punish management and in the final analysis all they have done is punish themselves.

I got news for you.....The QOL and compensation were going into the toilet whether there was a union or not. That IS Scheeringa's business plan for FLOPS.

Are you a FLOPS pilot? I was and I can tell you your assessment of the situation is 180 degrees off.

 

[GEXDriver]

I got news for you.....The QOL and compensation were going into the toilet whether there was a union or not. That IS Scheeringa's business plan for FLOPS.

Are you a FLOPS pilot? I was and I can tell you your assessment of the situation is 180 degrees off.

Great, tell me what the Teamsters have done for Flops besides costing them the raise that management was trying to give them in January and poisoning the work environment.

 

[GerryG]

The Flex guys would be maroons to vote in 1108.

All they have to do is look at Flops to see what the union has done to that organization. Organizing killed the raise that management was trying to give them. Quality of life and compensation has gone into the toilet since they voted in the Teamsters. They now have an adversarial relationship with management and are working counter to the leadership's simple desire to develop a business plan that will keep Flops in business.

Flops executives weren't against organizing - they just wanted a cooperative union that worked with management for the betterment of the company. The example they cited was SWAPA at Southwest. But noooooo, the pilots at Flops wanted to punish management and in the final analysis all they have done is punish themselves.

Under the RLA management was prohibited from giving us that raise you are talking about. The RLA states that when management could reasonably be expected to have known that a Union drive was underway a "laboratory period" is in effect. And since FLOPS management was offering that raise at the end of January 06 more than a year into the Union drive they could not have legally given the raise. What's more, since they were being advised at the time by Ford&Harrison, FLOPS management knew that. So the promised raise was simply a ruse, an attempt to bust the Union drive.

Oh and yes things have gone in the toilet since the Union was voted in. Once more you smell the stench of F&H all over this. This is a standard Union busting tactic, they are attempting to make things seem so bad to the average line pilot that when it comes time for a decert campaign, those pilots will look back with hopeful nostalgia an the days before the big bad union came along. It's not going to work, but they always try it.

Oh and the funniest part of your post, "Flops executives weren't against organizing", come on man they hired Ford&Harrison, one of the most infamous Union busting law firms in the country. You must be joking. Oh yea management did want to put in a nut-less pilot association, they were going to call it FOPA of all things. They even found some sycophantic kool aid drinking pilots to try and organize that for them. Only problem was those pilots were not to computer savvy and they left their fingerprints all over the emails they sent out to our pilot group, and the Union found out who they were and squashed them like the little bugs they were.

So what has the Union done for us so far? We now have the right to representation when called into Clown Co. for a carpet dance, we have the ASAP program with a Union rep on the ERC to protect our pilots, we no longer have to answer our phones in the early am after 10 hrs of rest. We no longer have to live with the fear that if we write up an airplane at the wrong time management will wave our jobs under our nose. We have had 4 negotiation sessions so far and are making good progress toward the goal of a contract. And the subservient relationship that we used to have with our middle management is slowly evaporating.

I will never again work for a big non-union company. I have sympathy for those that do. Thing is you don't even know how much the yolk of indentured union-less servitude weighs until you throw it off.

 

[GEXDriver]

Under the RLA management was prohibited from giving us that raise you are talking about.

That's precisely what I was talking about. You guys did that to yourselves by voting in the union just prior to the finalization of what was to be a significant raise.

Oh and the funniest part of your post, "Flops executives weren't against organizing", come on man they hired Ford&Harrison, one of the most infamous Union busting law firms in the country.

That would seem a reasonable response to bringing the Teamsters, fundamentaly a criminal enetrprise, on property. Every Teamster president since the 1930's has either been indicted or gone to prison.

You must be joking. Oh yea management did want to put in a nut-less pilot association, they were going to call it FOPA of all things. They even found some sycophantic kool aid drinking pilots to try and organize that for them. Only problem was those pilots were not to computer savvy and they left their fingerprints all over the emails they sent out to our pilot group, and the Union found out who they were and squashed them like the little bugs they were.

Two points:

1. Organizations like SWAPA or the proposed FOPA are non-profit organizations formed solely for the benefit of the pilots. The Teamsters are a business that makes their profits from you.

2. I can' believe that you freely admit that the first thing the Teamsters did was resort to typical union thugism and intimidate the voices of opposition into silence.

So what has the Union done for us so far? We now have the right to representation when called into Clown Co. for a carpet dance, we have the ASAP program with a Union rep on the ERC to protect our pilots, we no longer have to answer our phones in the early am after 10 hrs of rest. We no longer have to live with the fear that if we write up an airplane at the wrong time management will wave our jobs under our nose. We have had 4 negotiation sessions so far and are making good progress toward the goal of a contract. And the subservient relationship that we used to have with our middle management is slowly evaporating.

Empty rhetoric. Show me the increase in your financial bottom line. Oh, so far it's a net loss, huh? Which due to the time value of money, creates an economic opportunity loss which will take you years to recover from, if ever.

How about quality of life? Oops, no improvement there either. Your guys come into the FBO which houses our flight department. They used to be a pretty happy group of pilots. Sure, there was some grousing about the number of hours flown and some banter between the Flight Options guys and the former Travel Air pilots, but all and all thy seemed to be a pretty normal group of pilots.

Now one third of the guys are always PO'd at the two-thirds that voted in the union and the other two-thirds are mad at management and just about everything else.

I don't know about you, but I like liking to come to work and I don't think that much happens at your place.

Anyway, the thrust of my original post was directed at Flex, not Flops, you guys are already screwed. I simply suggested that Flex pilots look at what the Teamsters did to Flops before they decided to send their cards in.

I will never again work for a big non-union company. I have sympathy for those that do. Thing is you don't even know how much the yolk of indentured union-less servitude weighs until you throw it off.

I appreciate your sympathy. The average pilot in my department makes a buck and a half a year. We also get stock and have a defined benefit pension plan. How does that compare to what your union has negotiated for you?

 

[GerryG]

That's precisely what I was talking about. You guys did that to yourselves by voting in the union just prior to the finalization of what was to be a significant raise.

Ok let me spell it out more simply for you. The Union drive began summer 04, Flops management became aware of it shortly thereafter, thus legally putting in place a laboratory period under the RLA. December 05, company is aware the organizers are about to call for a Union vote so they start talking about a raise, even though they know they can't really offer one. This is done because they want to subsequently try and blame the Union for the non-pay-raise in an effort to stave off the vote for the Union. Feb. 06, one month prior to the vote, company does just that. March 06, Union voted in anyway and company is suddenly poor and unable to give the raise they were offering just 2 months earlier and also is suddenly overstaffed and might need to furlough. BS

That would seem a reasonable response to bringing the Teamsters, fundamentally a criminal enetrprise, on property. Every Teamster president since the 1930's has either been indicted or gone to prison.

Yes I know the bad old Teamsters. That's such a tired response. We voted in the IBT1108, which has an excellent track record for representing its pilots.

Two points:

1. Organizations like SWAPA or the proposed FOPA are non-profit organizations formed solely for the benefit of the pilots. The Teamsters are a business that makes their profits from you.

FOPA would have been a tool of management. It was put forth with the assistance of management, in an effort to bust the union drive. The Teamsters can go toe-to-toe with management financially, FOPA would have been an empty shell. SWPA benefits from the benevolent nature of their management. In case you haven't heard M.S. runs options. Nice pilot loving kind of guy he is not. Pilot hating, pilot disrespecting kind of guy is what he is, and he would have chewed up FOPA and spit them out.

2. I can' believe that you freely admit that the first thing the Teamsters did was resort to typical union thugism and intimidate the voices of opposition into silence.

I think what the Union organizers did was defend the flight options pilots from the very real threat that management would put in place an organization that was nothing more than a tool. A management run group that would have been nothing more then a way for MS to push through his intended plans. Call it thuggery if you want but you have to be strong to fight people like M.S. and his gang.

Empty rhetoric. Show me the increase in your financial bottom line. Oh, so far it's a net loss, huh? Which due to the time value of money, creates an economic opportunity loss which will take you years to recover from, if ever.

It will take a bit of time but we will get there. I think a 40% raise will go a long way to helping us recover.

How about quality of life? Oops, no improvement there either. Your guys come into the FBO which houses our flight department. They used to be a pretty happy group of pilots. Sure, there was some grousing about the number of hours flown and some banter between the Flight Options guys and the former Travel Air pilots, but all and all thy seemed to be a pretty normal group of pilots.

Now one third of the guys are always PO'd at the two-thirds that voted in the union and the other two-thirds are mad at management and just about everything else.

I don't know about you, but I like liking to come to work and I don't think that much happens at your place.

Anyway, the thrust of my original post was directed at Flex, not Flops, you guys are already screwed. I simply suggested that Flex pilots look at what the Teamsters did to Flops before they decided to send their cards in.

I appreciate your sympathy. The average pilot in my department makes a buck and a half a year. We also get stock and have a defined benefit pension plan. How does that compare to what your union has negotiated for you?

I'm glad it's all working out for you brother, but the fact is for us it was not. We had a choice, fight, or run away. A lot of us chose to fight, because we feel that fundamentally flight options is a good company with a promising future. A lot of us felt that we had too much time invested to just walk away without challenging the crap M.S. is dishing out. Yes we are angry as a group now, just as the NJ pilots were during their contract negotiations. This I think is a normal reaction to being at war with your company. It is an unfortunate necessity. We will come out the other side of this fight, with a good contract. This something you will never have. Remember your company might one day decide to hire a M.S. of it's very own. If that happens, to whom will you turn. Will you simply quit and get another job. Will you be able to simply walk into another job that pays "a buck and a half"? What if your 62 when your company decides to hire a M.S., will you be able to easily find another high paying job at that age?

Yea we are in a fight now and yes our pilots are angry, but once we get our contract we will not have to worry about any of those issues. Flight Options will become a career company, just as NJ has.

 

[gunfyter]

GEX,

What stops management from agreeing to a Raise and contract now?

You are working for a Fortune 100 company I am guessing. Whole different situation.

 

[WabiSabi]

GEX, it is fortunate that you weren't in Jonestown, Guyana during the great kool aid bash. You wouldn't be here posting today:laugh: