Flexjet Recalls Two Flight Attendants, Janitor

[ArtVandalay]

Yeah mr gross got real defensive when someone brought up charter on the BB. He hadn't written anything on there in a year and when the "c" word was mentioned, he leaped all over it to defend it. I'm betting though that he's still FG's gimp..

 

[DUATS]

The contracts limit charter to 5%. They could charter everything out, but we would be out of business very fast.

I haven't seen the owner's contracts, but I bet management can get around that somehow. Also, I think there is no such protection for the 25 card holders, which is a bigger and bigger portion of the business.

5% of 100 planes that Flex had a year ago is 5 planes. Each requires 4.5 pilots. Take away the charter, and 18 pilots aren't subscribing to climbto350 and clipping coupons.

Whoever put the "charter limit when pilots are furloughed" clause in the NJA contract was really smart. I wonder if FLOPS got it in theirs.....

 

[RP170]

Whoever put the "charter limit when pilots are furloughed" clause in the NJA contract was really smart. I wonder if FLOPS got it in theirs.....

Unfortunately it's an unrealistic number of days involved. 11 days per quarter. I doubt they were chartering 11 days per quarter even at the peak of fractional flying.

 

[Dooker]

Yeah, and if you're Flexjet and you find yourself sitting on a bunch of jets that Bombardier suddenly has no interest in absorbing into its used inventory, charter is your newest, bestest friend.

Where, exactly, do you suppose those jets go? They go to operators who can staff them with pilots who don't have benefits, don't have fixed schedules, and who are a lot more reluctant to turn their phones off. That's how you make money in charter. As more and more jets age out of the program, more and more of the flying will be shunted over to these operators.

We had a chance to create a franchise in the only thing we've got: ourselves. But instead of even trying, we let ourselves get fooled by a bunch of happy talk and a raise that really wasn't.

We're about too get exactly what we deserve.

 

[realityman]

Right on OHGOON. You get it. There are too many guys at NJA with the rose colored, kool-aid drinking glasses on that think everything in the CBA is just wonderful and fine and dandy. Easy for them to say when they still have a JOB! By they way, realityman, this is my second furlough in 7 years. The first time I was unemployed for a year. This time will most likely be much much worse.

I liked the part where you talked about how NJA could just send contractors gold ties and paint the aircraft like NJA, etc. Funny you mentioned that because I saw a CE-680 a few months back operated by EJM painted just like an EJA aircraft. This may be part of the future plans so the owners won't know the difference.

We just received another company update today stating how great EJM is doing and that their business is way up. They are growing while NJA is shrinking. They are a real threat. Some guys just don't want to open their eyes or take off their rose colored glasses and admit it.

I think we all know how this will end up in the end. The will continue to get rid of aircraft at NJA while growing EJM. It's eerily similar to the Majors vs. Regionals scope issues at the airlines. And yes, I understand that NJA is not an airline!!! It's another way for management to cut operating costs and they can reduce the amount of union workers (higher pay) at the same time.

I'd be scared to death if I were a current NJA pilot in regards to the shift from fractional to charter flying within the Berkshire-Hathaway "family." Wake up guys before it's too late!

RP, while you were here, did you even bother to READ the contract (other than section 27)?

Okay, I agree with Goon that nothing is EVER completely ironclad. You'll have to show me contract where scope has zero loopholes. never heard of one. Probably never will.

But my point is, NJA can NOT simply shift our business to charter! Again, this does not apply to the other fracs. Just us. But here it is again. NJA can NOT simply shift our business to charter. If you had read the pertinent parts of the contract you'd understand that. If they try it, guess what? You'll be back to work here quickly! They can't simply charter charter charter with no repurcussions. While no contract is ironclad in this respect, ours is pretty darn good.

You can call me names, such as 'kool-aid drinker', or accuse me of wearing rose-colored glasses, but it doesn't change the any of the facts. You say it's just because I still have a job that I'm wearing rose-colored glasses.

Well, I could just as easily say that you're wearing crap-colored glasses just because you were furloughed. How about taking them off and seeing that things aren't so bad. Quit drinking the sewer water. While there has certainly been some shrinkage, things seem to be picking up. the flight schedule is slowly getting busier. Owner retention is up, and while I can't speak directly to sales, I have heard rumblings that sales of shares has improved a little. Things aren't great, but not all doom and gloom either.

As for EJM planes painted in our colors, so what? They've done this FOR YEARS. Hasn't been a threat to us before, I doubt it's much of one now. Again, that pesky contract thingy. They CAN'T shift business to EJM without bringing you guys back! Would seem like a pretty stupid way to cut costs. Shift clients to charter so they have to bring more NJA pilots back on the payroll?

Anyway, I just checked the forecast schedule on crewops. Flight demand appears to be a little bit up, but no yellow or red days. Those are the days where they are forecasting the need for charter. It doesn't appear that anything is being shifted to charter. All green.

I'm sorry you're furloughed. The previous management team overhired, combined with a huge economic crash, caused this situation. Not shifting work to charter.

 

[John MClain]

I can tell you this, if I were a CAFO, and they asked me to be captain for a day or whatever, I would tell them to F themselves.

Would ya really? Wow, you're so awesome and tough. You're my hero!

 

[flex*wife]

Yeah, and if you're Flexjet and you find yourself sitting on a bunch of jets that Bombardier suddenly has no interest in absorbing into its used inventory, charter is your newest, bestest friend.

Where, exactly, do you suppose those jets go? They go to operators who can staff them with pilots who don't have benefits, don't have fixed schedules, and who are a lot more reluctant to turn their phones off. That's how you make money in charter. As more and more jets age out of the program, more and more of the flying will be shunted over to these operators.

We had a chance to create a franchise in the only thing we've got: ourselves. But instead of even trying, we let ourselves get fooled by a bunch of happy talk and a raise that really wasn't.

We're about too get exactly what we deserve.

how come this is the big green gorilla nobody wants to actually discuss? I tried to lead y'all in the right direction last year when I posted about the globals but no one took the lead.

So I will just spell my facts & suspicions out for you. Fact: there are dozens upon dozens of bombardier aircraft w/o lxj tags registered to the waterview address. Fact: the marriage between flex and BJS barely skirts the law it was intended to fulfill but both companies have successfully used it's legal neccessity to further muddy the waters in some very unscrupulous ways Suspicion: either flex or bjs is using it's resources to manage, staff, dispatch etc these planes under the radar Fact: there are 85 flex guys on the street on part because of these games

y'all should really take your wives to the little hangar/Christmas parties. Get a little wine in those office peeps and you'd be surprised of the beans they are too willing to spill to the dumb blonde they assume can't read between the lines or care enough to ponder...

I could go on for days. Y'all really need to step up your game protecting your scope. You are at will and can be switched out for a cheaper version any time. If the situation regarding CAFOs isn't enough to show y'all that nothing will.

 

[ArtVandalay]

Would ya really? Wow, you're so awesome and tough. You're my hero!

You always have such intellectual brio and intelligent dialogue to offer. You must be in management. Or, as you would say, "I'm work in da office"

 

[RP170]

RP, while you were here, did you even bother to READ the contract (other than section 27)?

Okay, I agree with Goon that nothing is EVER completely ironclad. You'll have to show me contract where scope has zero loopholes. never heard of one. Probably never will.

But my point is, NJA can NOT simply shift our business to charter! Again, this does not apply to the other fracs. Just us. But here it is again. NJA can NOT simply shift our business to charter. If you had read the pertinent parts of the contract you'd understand that. If they try it, guess what? You'll be back to work here quickly! They can't simply charter charter charter with no repurcussions. While no contract is ironclad in this respect, ours is pretty darn good.

You can call me names, such as 'kool-aid drinker', or accuse me of wearing rose-colored glasses, but it doesn't change the any of the facts. You say it's just because I still have a job that I'm wearing rose-colored glasses.

Well, I could just as easily say that you're wearing crap-colored glasses just because you were furloughed. How about taking them off and seeing that things aren't so bad. Quit drinking the sewer water. While there has certainly been some shrinkage, things seem to be picking up. the flight schedule is slowly getting busier. Owner retention is up, and while I can't speak directly to sales, I have heard rumblings that sales of shares has improved a little. Things aren't great, but not all doom and gloom either.

As for EJM planes painted in our colors, so what? They've done this FOR YEARS. Hasn't been a threat to us before, I doubt it's much of one now. Again, that pesky contract thingy. They CAN'T shift business to EJM without bringing you guys back! Would seem like a pretty stupid way to cut costs. Shift clients to charter so they have to bring more NJA pilots back on the payroll?

Anyway, I just checked the forecast schedule on crewops. Flight demand appears to be a little bit up, but no yellow or red days. Those are the days where they are forecasting the need for charter. It doesn't appear that anything is being shifted to charter. All green.

I'm sorry you're furloughed. The previous management team overhired, combined with a huge economic crash, caused this situation. Not shifting work to charter.

You don't find it threatening whatsoever that every weekly business update states how great EJM is doing with no mention of NJA? They are repeating this over and over each week for a reason.

They can outsource up to 11 days per quarter. That's a crapload of sell off potential to other charter companies. And what if they do have to recall if they outsource on more days than that? Will they just refurlough the guys they recalled? There isn't anything that states the pilots have to be brought back for a certain period of time is there?

How about having to pay for crew food now if you want more than 2 per day at NJA? Who really initiated that new rule? Was it really the IRS or did company lawyers start digging through IRS rules to find a loophole where they could start charging for the meals? Sounds like a great way for the company to cut back on its crew food budget. Not to mention, also a way to take a shot at the contract and alter it. I'm afaid it's just the beginning of what's to come at NJA. I hope I'm wrong but my gut is telling me I'm not. This isn't my first rodeo.

 

[netjetwife]

I had the opportunity to fly with one of Flexjet's senior Kool-Aid drinkers a couple of rotations ago. Anyway, we got on the subject of charter, and I told him what I'd heard about the apparent hiring boom at some of the charter outfits 'Flex uses.

Me: "You know, there's not a thing that stops them from farming everything out to charter if they want."

Him: "I'm sure they'd never do that."

Me: "Yeah, you're right. I'm sure they have our best interests at heart."

It got pretty quiet after that.

Dooker, I second the suggestion that you could use writing as a safety plan. Your recall story caught me...not just once..but twice...:0 Funny both times... Your sarcastic wit is quite effective whether you're poking fun or being serious. Thanks for helping others to see the humor and the warning signs. NJW