ArtVandalay
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You don't work at flex obviously. And, yes, we might recall soon the way things are looking to me.
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Flexjet Recalls Two Flight Attendants, Janitor
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You don't work at flex obviously. And, yes, we might recall soon the way things are looking to me.
FalconPilot69
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Falconpilot69-
lord knows I can't speak for Art and am not trying to but my interpretation if what he's saying is that he is talking about one or more of several recent flex events and rumors.
1.) there have been quite a few firings recently
2.) per the new poi training is more difficult than ever - only the best of the best are gonna pass
3.) management encouraged retiring of more senior guys - not sure if there will be a buyout similar to NJA and while salary reductions would reflect a relatively minor slice of the bottom line, being bottom heavy with qualified pilots is better than top heavy from an expense pov. Thanks to the economy there is great applicant pool out there.
4.) a few other pilots have moved on to greener pastures of their own accord
5.) the fear of the cafo situation turning permanent which allows the company to bring back a few more if some mid tier guys get cafoed.
Just my guess, hope that was more helpful than the bitter run around that tends to go on here.
lord knows I can't speak for Art and am not trying to but my interpretation if what he's saying is that he is talking about one or more of several recent flex events and rumors.
1.) there have been quite a few firings recently
2.) per the new poi training is more difficult than ever - only the best of the best are gonna pass
3.) management encouraged retiring of more senior guys - not sure if there will be a buyout similar to NJA and while salary reductions would reflect a relatively minor slice of the bottom line, being bottom heavy with qualified pilots is better than top heavy from an expense pov. Thanks to the economy there is great applicant pool out there.
4.) a few other pilots have moved on to greener pastures of their own accord
5.) the fear of the cafo situation turning permanent which allows the company to bring back a few more if some mid tier guys get cafoed.
Just my guess, hope that was more helpful than the bitter run around that tends to go on here.
FraxJockey
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Flex-wife, nothing irks me more than the completely untrue nature of your comments. First of all , nothing has changed in the training. There have been some changes in the PTS (Practical test standards NOT the POI as you claim....if you want to lay blame, blame the FAA) and we have had to adjust our training accordingly. If you claim that only the "best of the best" can pass, then trust me we would all be in trouble. The people that were recently terminated were done so with cause...you want another Colgan (Buffalo crash) happening at Flex? I don't know about you or your hubby, but if anyone balls up an airplane at Flex or NJA we are all potentially out of a job.
After that whole Buffalo mess training will NEVER be the same.
You want a gouge for your hubby's next checkride? Go here:
http://www.faa.gov/training_testing...ilot/media/FAA-S-8081-5F Change 2 Revised.pdf
Go to page 5, major changes and read the second and third to last bullets...that is what's giving everyone heartburn. Courtesy of your FAA.
After that whole Buffalo mess training will NEVER be the same.
You want a gouge for your hubby's next checkride? Go here:
http://www.faa.gov/training_testing...ilot/media/FAA-S-8081-5F Change 2 Revised.pdf
Go to page 5, major changes and read the second and third to last bullets...that is what's giving everyone heartburn. Courtesy of your FAA.
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Flyingdog1
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Your're ignorant. Not trying to insult you, just stating a fact.
1. Yes there have been some firings. One guy got fired for taking 20 bucks from a line guy because the line guy spilled his meal. Another made an overwieght landing because the gear pins were in. And just took off again without writing it up, or showing a return to the depature point. These seem legitimate to me.
2. We follow the PTS as we have always. The only changes were doing are stalls with the AP on. (BFD) If anything the check rides are easier. The TRB, 99.9% of the time reccomends more training.
3. WRONG!! I'm an old dude and I would jump at a chance to early retire.
4. I can't think of one person who has left for another job in the past year. I've run into a few who have found jobs after being laid off. And I pray for those guys who were laid off every night.
5. The CAFO thing has a built in safeguard, you have the right to turn it down. We've been through this before and it doesn't work. As soon as they ( the CAFO's ) learn they are screwing themselves, it will end. If they force it, I guarantee you the union will be beating on our front door with a sledge hammer wanting in, and we will let them in.
Whenever I hear a rumor, I get the facts. And after well over a decade here, I have never raised the BS flag.
justmeinmsp
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CL300Pilot
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Flexwife and all other training center conspiracy theorists, I have posted this before and I will again.
We have 370 pilots, give or take a few. These pilots take 2 rides a year which equates to 740 check rides. Out of the 740 check rides, I know of 4 who have been terminated in the past year. That equates to 1 in every 185 rides ending in a termination. People have and will always bust their ride, it happens. I can't see where the training center is being "tougher" on people. The guys in the school house are the best bunch of guys I know, and lets not forget that unlike Bombardier and Flight Safety instructors, these guys are also our friends and fellow pilots.
So please, don't go diarrhea of the mouth or fingers in this case, regarding the school house when you obviously don't have a freaking clue! One other thing, why don't we hear on here about all of the guys, and I know of 4 or 5, that have gone into training, brain farted and busted, only to be TRB'd, get their extra training and are back on the line? Oh yeah, because that information does not paint the school house and Flex as the evil demons that they obviously are.
The only people scared of the school house are those that are marginal pilots at best and should probably not be flying an airplane, let alone driving a car! Wake up people.
You want to gripe, do so about this dumb arse CaFo thing. As dog said, only those who are affected can change it and hopefully they will soon realize they are only hurting themselves.
We have 370 pilots, give or take a few. These pilots take 2 rides a year which equates to 740 check rides. Out of the 740 check rides, I know of 4 who have been terminated in the past year. That equates to 1 in every 185 rides ending in a termination. People have and will always bust their ride, it happens. I can't see where the training center is being "tougher" on people. The guys in the school house are the best bunch of guys I know, and lets not forget that unlike Bombardier and Flight Safety instructors, these guys are also our friends and fellow pilots.
So please, don't go diarrhea of the mouth or fingers in this case, regarding the school house when you obviously don't have a freaking clue! One other thing, why don't we hear on here about all of the guys, and I know of 4 or 5, that have gone into training, brain farted and busted, only to be TRB'd, get their extra training and are back on the line? Oh yeah, because that information does not paint the school house and Flex as the evil demons that they obviously are.
The only people scared of the school house are those that are marginal pilots at best and should probably not be flying an airplane, let alone driving a car! Wake up people.
You want to gripe, do so about this dumb arse CaFo thing. As dog said, only those who are affected can change it and hopefully they will soon realize they are only hurting themselves.
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I don't know why everyone is jumping on me about the training thing, or any of the 4 things I wrote, saying I'm being negative. I see most of them as positive. When I said POI, maybe I got the term wrong, but I meant the guy who is from the FAA and oversees Flex compliance.
I see the training thing as a great thing actaully. My understanding is that it has been redesigned in a way that no one can no longer claim they gut a hard instructor or different issues thrown at them that other guys that same week didn't get. I think that is a great thing. I think it makes Flex management look great as it would appear they are
listening to the grumblings that have gone on.
As for the best of the best comment why should that offend? Because of Buffalo, Flex is making sure that God forbid anything happen it won't be because they passed a guy who didn't deserve it and are making sure their pilots are the best qualified in the fracs. Once again, great thing.
As for the TRB stuff, it's been written on here countless times about the fairness of that process and I've never disputed it and have no reason to.
As for the retirings, once again, management positive and I hope it's true. As I stated, right now it is a rumor. But if it happened it would be awesome.
I think some of y'all have unfairly grouped me as having an opinion that I don't neccesarily have. Do I think there needs to be some changes, yes and so do most of you. So lay off me and realize I only want better conditions for all of you that deserve it.
Wow, I thought that was actaully a true and positive post except the cafo thing which is a problem and probrably hits my family a little closer than most of you, so I think I have a right to my opinion on it.
I see the training thing as a great thing actaully. My understanding is that it has been redesigned in a way that no one can no longer claim they gut a hard instructor or different issues thrown at them that other guys that same week didn't get. I think that is a great thing. I think it makes Flex management look great as it would appear they are
listening to the grumblings that have gone on.
As for the best of the best comment why should that offend? Because of Buffalo, Flex is making sure that God forbid anything happen it won't be because they passed a guy who didn't deserve it and are making sure their pilots are the best qualified in the fracs. Once again, great thing.
As for the TRB stuff, it's been written on here countless times about the fairness of that process and I've never disputed it and have no reason to.
As for the retirings, once again, management positive and I hope it's true. As I stated, right now it is a rumor. But if it happened it would be awesome.
I think some of y'all have unfairly grouped me as having an opinion that I don't neccesarily have. Do I think there needs to be some changes, yes and so do most of you. So lay off me and realize I only want better conditions for all of you that deserve it.
Wow, I thought that was actaully a true and positive post except the cafo thing which is a problem and probrably hits my family a little closer than most of you, so I think I have a right to my opinion on it.
flyingdog, you're missing at least a couple more in your firings list. While they are all legitimate, that is pretty high considering the past records on these things. I think it happening in a bad economy and climate that makes job hunting tougher makes them sting a little more. But like another poster said about cleaning house if it's dirty...
So for the record I am not saying any one of these firings was unfair just stating the fact that management's tolerance for monkey business is non existent. Don't understand why that makes me ignorant, but you have a right to your opinion.
So for the record I am not saying any one of these firings was unfair just stating the fact that management's tolerance for monkey business is non existent. Don't understand why that makes me ignorant, but you have a right to your opinion.
Flyingdog1
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I said you were ignorant because 4 out 5 items you listed were wrong. You got number 1 right. This company has let people go reguardless of the economy or how bad we needed pilots or not. And,I know, as all of us know, about the other firings, I just didn't mention them.
I was not stating an opinion, just facts.
My opinion is, it sucks to lose your job. It especially sucks in this economy.
I was not stating an opinion, just facts.
My opinion is, it sucks to lose your job. It especially sucks in this economy.
John MClain
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Would you please change your name to "Chickenlittle" it's fits you and your avatar to a T.
Mass = A considerable assemblage, number, or quantity: a mass of errors; a mass of troops.
Exodus = A journey by a large group to escape from a hostile environment.
And Btw, please feel free to to join said journey if things are so bad at Flex.
Well gotta run, I think I'm working as a Captain today.
ArtVandalay
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Would you please change your name to "Chickenlittle" it's fits you and your avatar to a T.
Mass = A considerable assemblage, number, or quantity: a mass of errors; a mass of troops.
Exodus = A journey by a large group to escape from a hostile environment.
And Btw, please feel free to to join said journey if things are so bad at Flex.
Well gotta run, I think I'm working as a Captain today.
enjoy the cock in your mouth tonight.
Flyingdog,
I think you're just being argumentative becuase I still think I got them all right. I think you percieve incorrectly that I was being negative and there's no way I was (except for the cafo thing)
Bottom line as succinctly as I know how to put it is that with 85 on the street if you don't deserve your job or screw up, than Flex has every right not to mention responsibilty to handle that. Nothing negative there.
As for senior listers, if Flex can find a way to help encourage them to retire in a way that benefits them and in doing so can lower the bottom line and bring some guys back and fresh hires in how is that not AWESOME? As a lower half family I pray there is merit to this one.
And for those of you who have either written or pm'd that training is same it's always been based on stalls alone you're wrong so I guess you weren't paying attention. But once again, kudos to flex.
I have stated before I think Flex is a relatively good company but think some changes would make it better. Personally I used to think a union was the answer but looking at the recent NJA mess I'm not so sure that adding another layer of beurocracy (?) and talking heads would be fruitful in this climate as money is not the issue. I'm simply trying to create dialogue as to what solutions ARE possible.
Geez I would have thought most of y'all would have celebrated my attempt to reconstruct a negative vague post by someone else into something positive but I guess that's just not possible. I'm willing to give flex credit where it's due but think I have a right to my concerns when I have them too.
I think you're just being argumentative becuase I still think I got them all right. I think you percieve incorrectly that I was being negative and there's no way I was (except for the cafo thing)
Bottom line as succinctly as I know how to put it is that with 85 on the street if you don't deserve your job or screw up, than Flex has every right not to mention responsibilty to handle that. Nothing negative there.
As for senior listers, if Flex can find a way to help encourage them to retire in a way that benefits them and in doing so can lower the bottom line and bring some guys back and fresh hires in how is that not AWESOME? As a lower half family I pray there is merit to this one.
And for those of you who have either written or pm'd that training is same it's always been based on stalls alone you're wrong so I guess you weren't paying attention. But once again, kudos to flex.
I have stated before I think Flex is a relatively good company but think some changes would make it better. Personally I used to think a union was the answer but looking at the recent NJA mess I'm not so sure that adding another layer of beurocracy (?) and talking heads would be fruitful in this climate as money is not the issue. I'm simply trying to create dialogue as to what solutions ARE possible.
Geez I would have thought most of y'all would have celebrated my attempt to reconstruct a negative vague post by someone else into something positive but I guess that's just not possible. I'm willing to give flex credit where it's due but think I have a right to my concerns when I have them too.
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I guess that sums it up pretty well..
Haha - you're right! Thanks! With you and John McClain around I'd have a harder time finding the sweet balance of humility and indignaton. ;-)
John MClain
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Sums what up? That Art has a phallic fetish or homosexual fantasies? I would have never even thought of a response like that. I guess he is speaking from experience.
Well gotta go, I'm flying in the left seat again today. Whoo hoo!
Hung Start
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glasspilot
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ArtVandalay
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What?? He won't enjoy it? And, btw, none of you have seen the private messages this a$$hole has sent me.
And, it's all in good fun isn't it? I mean, he didn't deny anything so, I assume he enjoyed it.
John MClain
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Art, your such a Dou@#e bag. The only thing I truly enjoyed was watching you get spun-up like a top when I insinuated I was acting as a CAFO. There was and is never anything worth denying in any of your posts because they are without merit. As far as the PM as in (1). You were way out of line and I called you on it privately.
Now that I know what your little pea sized brain fantasizes about, I'm glad I did'nt take you up on your offer to meet me at one of the local shopping malls and kick my ass. You wanted something more, didn't ya big boy!
Dooker
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My question is, how did the whole genital-in-mouth comment ever get past the mods?
Seriously. We need to clean up or ********************ing acts. This bull******************** has got to end. We need to take a stand and make the world a more civilized ********************ing place, starting right here. What if some little ********************ing kid was to see this ********************? I mean, I'm certainly no ********************ing saint, but ********************.
Who the ******************** is with me?
Seriously. We need to clean up or ********************ing acts. This bull******************** has got to end. We need to take a stand and make the world a more civilized ********************ing place, starting right here. What if some little ********************ing kid was to see this ********************? I mean, I'm certainly no ********************ing saint, but ********************.
Who the ******************** is with me?
ArtVandalay
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Yes, I wanted SO MUCH MORE, and you couldn't deliver
Maybe we will hear something sooner rather than later. It would be nice if there is no more bad news.
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