Flexjet, pilots...

[slowtation capt]

Was this a Panama City guy? About a month ago Panama City mystetiously became a base out of no where.

Further north is the 1 I am referring to.

 

[slowtation capt]

My personal feeling about the guys coming over is, great for them (I hope all new hires can make their same salary). I don't care what seniority they hold somewhere else, at FJ are new hires, and can enjoy all the benefits that come along with that. IF, they're ever granted special status out of seniority, that's when a card campaign will catch fire. And, I'm pretty sure the IBT won't be the top name on ballot.

The FO transfers and future transfer pilots are all ready being told to put their names in for dedicated crewing on the 350. Can put it in single or if they can build a team of five together, then the guy with the highest seniority # will be used for aircraft assignment order upon delivery. Also they are being told the G450's are to be operated in the same manner.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

TWA "Seems like your comparison posts aren't having the affect you were hoping for.
". What you can read my mind now?

 

[doh]

We are being told the G450 will be a fleet aircraft. Got that from the presentation at the Waterview during long.

 

[The Architect]

Special Status Granted

IF, they're ever granted special status out of seniority, that's when a card campaign will catch fire. And, I'm pretty sure the IBT won't be the top name on ballot.

In short, in my opinion, the minute the union agreed to this, they (meaning you couple of FI posters), lost the right to try and stir up trouble.

Flexjet "hires" a pilot from Flight Options and pays that pilot more than the new hire pay rate. That is granting that pilot a "special status out of seniority." Normally, a "new hire" pilot gets paid the pay rate for a first year employee.

The union never "agreed to this." The Flight Options pilots that wanted to go to work at Flexjet did so on a Personal Leave of Absence. The Flight Options Pilots CBA allows a pilot to request a PLOA for up to 1 year. The company approves such requests at its discretion. These pilots simply requested a PLOA.

While on PLOA a Flight Options pilot can do whatever he wants or work for whoever he wants, as long as he doesn't work for anyone that "directly competes" with Flight Options unless approved by the company.

Bottom line, Flight Options pilot takes a PLOA with the intent to work at Flexjet. PLOA is granted and effective the day before that pilot is employed as a "new hire" at Flexjet. Flexjet pays that pilot the rate they were paid at their previous job, Flight Options. That pilot is paid a rate much higher than the Flexjet "new hire" rate. KR masterminds and approves the process. Special Status Granted.

 

[shanes123]

That about summed it up.

 

[The Architect]

Base Pay

With OT, bonus, and per diem as an eighth year FO, I cracked $101,000 last paycheck.

The Flight Options rates posted do not include incentive day/hourly pay, fuel bonuses or per diem.

So, you can add more to that amount.

Per diem is 40.80 per day. For a pilot on an 8 & 7 schedule that an additional $8,000 a year, tax free. Yes, they keep all of it. Why? Because when flying through breakfast, lunch or dinner the pilot's meal is delivered to the plane at no cost. Also, on top of that, every pilot has a company credit card for meals with NO LIMIT on the amount they spend for meals.

Incentive day/hourly pay are given for a multitude of reasons. Amounts vary.

And fuel bonuses are something that the majority of pilots receive simply by flying the profiles within reasonable limits. The rate is quarterly and either $250 or $500. And it's in the CBA. So, they can't simply stop it on a whim.

So, a pay rate of $102,000 is more like $111,000+ to $112000+ not including incentive day/hourly pay. And $8,000 of it...is tax free.

This is a little higher than the Flexjet "new hire," or F/O year 1 pay rate. But why let that bother anyone?

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Yes Architect, the pay of both pilots may be the same in the end, but the problem for the future is the creation of the "B" scale. The pay of a 14/15 year FO PIC may equal the FX year 2 FO. What happens with raises and promotions is the next question.

 

[Downwind]

I'm not sure of the point of this post. Are you putting down FLOPs pilots or Flex pilots? Our most junior CA is on nine year Lear CA pay, I believe. At that rate, that's $128,000 base salary. Our eight and nine year FO's are making around $85,000-87,000 base salary. With OT, bonus, and per diem as an eighth year FO, I cracked $101,000 last paycheck.

Don't forget to thank the union and pilot group that got you that level of pay.

Happy Holidays.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Thanks Downwind. You don't have to remind me. Under the old system I'd be almost at 80 by now and still paying for food out of my own pocket and I upgraded 14 years ago. Happy Holidays to everyone!

 

[V1 Rotate]

Don't forget to thank the union and pilot group that got you that level of pay.

Happy Holidays.

Do you think that nonunion aviation employees are the only group of people whose pay is made competitive with their competition?

 

[Praetorian]

Do you think that nonunion aviation employees are the only group of people whose pay is made competitive with their competition?

Do you think your pay would have gone up if the NJ pilots hadn't negotiated those 05 and 07 agreements?

Better yet. Do you think your pay would have gone up if the NJ pilots hadn't negotiated those 05 and 07 agreements and organizing campaigns were not underway at your company?

 

[el raton]

Never thought I would say this...we should have listened. Now it's too late.

 

[The Architect]

It's Never Too Late

Never thought I would say this...we should have listened. Now it's too late.

Actually, the later the better in some ways.

The longer these new senior executives are in place, more employees will wish to seek representation.

By the way. TMC pilots will determine their fate today.

 

[The Architect]

Clarify

Yes Architect, the pay of both pilots may be the same in the end, but the problem for the future is the creation of the "B" scale. The pay of a 14/15 year FO PIC may equal the FX year 2 FO. What happens with raises and promotions is the next question.

I think you misunderstood me.

V1 said he is a 8 year FO. With OT, bonus, per diem - he made $101,000

The Flight Options pilots that are year 1 at Flexjet are making $111,000 to $112,000 plus $8000 a year of that total is tax free. That's without OT, bonuses, etc.

Now, V1, who has been there 8 years, is making less.

Oh ya, apparently the Flight Options pilots do not have to comply with the Flexjet pilots domicile rules.

Not to fair.

I think el realizes that.

Oh ya, apparently the Flight Options pilots do not have to comply with the Flexjet pilots domicile rules either.

 

[slowtation capt]

Oh ya, apparently the Flight Options pilots do not have to comply with the Flexjet pilots domicile rules either.

I hear another "New domicile" was made for a Flops Phenom CA so he can come to Flex.

 

[jetwash]

Just a little heads up for the Flex pilots, seeing as your 135 certificate is now being managed by the ROC FSDO. ( same as Flops).
They usually take a look at flight aware and plan ramp checks there when you arrive. They also go over to BUF to do ramp checks so be prepared.

Any idea on how your FOM rewrite is going to match ours. I assume that when it matches the Options one and they are both at the same FSDO it will be easy to just merge them together.

 

[shanes123]

KSYR another favorite Ramp check area

 

[windshear73]

http://teamster.org/news/2014/12/travel-management-company-pilots-vote-join-teamsters

 

[slowtation capt]

RED LABEL PROGRAM: We do anticipate the addition of more aircraft at Flexjet that will be staffed in the dedicated crew format currently being used on the Globals. All pilots regardless of whether they are active at Flexjet, active at Flight Options or Flight Options pilots who have been hired by Flexjet (as outlined here), will be eligible to apply or bid for the dedicated crew aircraft. Currently the dedicated crew program is under review and should be made available to all pilots in the 1st quarter of 2015.

 

[SDCFI]

RED LABEL PROGRAM: We do anticipate the addition of more aircraft at Flexjet that will be staffed in the dedicated crew format currently being used on the Globals. All pilots regardless of whether they are active at Flexjet, active at Flight Options or Flight Options pilots who have been hired by Flexjet (as outlined here), will be eligible to apply or bid for the dedicated crew aircraft. Currently the dedicated crew program is under review and should be made available to all pilots in the 1st quarter of 2015.

Where did you get that? Haven't seen anything on the Flexjet side. If this is true the post office will be inundated with union cards very shortly esp with the recent loss of the "enhanced" 401k bonus. Merry Xmas from your friends at DAC!

 

[justmeinmsp]

DAC is taking one item at a time. The next "big" thing will overshadow this, and it will be forgotten. We (flex) better wake up

 

[Fresh Air]

Where did you get that? Haven't seen anything on the Flexjet side. If this is true the post office will be inundated with union cards very shortly esp with the recent loss of the "enhanced" 401k bonus. Merry Xmas from your friends at DAC!

That paragraph was contained in a letter sent to all Flight Options pilots from Joe Salata dated December 24, which announced the opening of the second bid period for Options pilots who want to transfer to Flex.

 

[realityman]

Where did you get that? Haven't seen anything on the Flexjet side. If this is true the post office will be inundated with union cards very shortly esp with the recent loss of the "enhanced" 401k bonus. Merry Xmas from your friends at DAC!

I'm very sorry to hear about what's going on there now.

Unfortunately, many FLOPS folks, and some of us who have worked for KR in a past life, have been trying to tell you from day 1 that this was going to happen. That you needed a union IMMEDIATELY to protect what you have.

Even now, you're saying you need something else to be taken away before a union card drive is started. The bad news is, all of you have taken too long to start waking up. KR is going to keep chipping away at what you have, little by little so it won't seem too awful (until you look back and realize that cumulatively he's taken A LOT). A union can help, but your starting point will have already been greatly reduced and you'll then have to fight for things you always had and never thought would be taken.

Sorry, not meaning to pick on you or anyone else. I personally hope you get a card drive started sooner rather than later. All of you deserve a lot more than you get right now, and need better job protections. My frustration lies in the fact that outside of the aircraft, pilots seem to prefer to disregard experience in others. Folks who have been dealing with KR for MANY YEARS have explained ad nauseum how he operates and what was going to happen and what's needed to protect against him, and a group who have had no dealings with him comes in and basically says "Naw. Aint gonna happen. He wouldn't do that to US.". Can you imagine if we did the same thing with the actual aircraft? "Hi, I'm new to the Lear 45. In fact, I've never flown any Learjet before, but no, I don't think I need to listen to or take advice from you who have been flying this plane for 10 years. My experience with the last plane I flew (not a Bombardier product) is enough to operate this plane very well.".

Just disappointed (but not surprised) to see this playing out as predicted. I wish all of you only the best of luck! Please don't wait for one more thing to be taken before you get a union drive going. We're all in this industry together and we need to stop the degradation of our careers by greedy management.

 

[jetwash]

Where did you get that? Haven't seen anything on the Flexjet side. If this is true the post office will be inundated with union cards very shortly esp with the recent loss of the "enhanced" 401k bonus. Merry Xmas from your friends at DAC!

Was there any reason given why he took it away? You guys are profitable and expanding.

 

[ghostrider64]

Was there any reason given why he took it away? You guys are profitable and expanding.

Because he can, and then it's something you'll have to fight over during negotiations to get back, saving him millions.

 

[Dirty Squirrel]

The enhanced portion (3% on top of the existing 6% match) of the 401K was an enticement by Bombardier to get pilots out of the pension. Although they are shooting themselves in the foot, DAC probably feels it is not obligated to continue what Bombardier started.

 

[doh]

I'm very sorry to hear about what's going on there now.

Unfortunately, many FLOPS folks, and some of us who have worked for KR in a past life, have been trying to tell you from day 1 that this was going to happen. That you needed a union IMMEDIATELY to protect what you have.

Even now, you're saying you need something else to be taken away before a union card drive is started. The bad news is, all of you have taken too long to start waking up. KR is going to keep chipping away at what you have, little by little so it won't seem too awful (until you look back and realize that cumulatively he's taken A LOT). A union can help, but your starting point will have already been greatly reduced and you'll then have to fight for things you always had and never thought would be taken.

Sorry, not meaning to pick on you or anyone else. I personally hope you get a card drive started sooner rather than later. All of you deserve a lot more than you get right now, and need better job protections. My frustration lies in the fact that outside of the aircraft, pilots seem to prefer to disregard experience in others. Folks who have been dealing with KR for MANY YEARS have explained ad nauseum how he operates and what was going to happen and what's needed to protect against him, and a group who have had no dealings with him comes in and basically says "Naw. Aint gonna happen. He wouldn't do that to US.". Can you imagine if we did the same thing with the actual aircraft? "Hi, I'm new to the Lear 45. In fact, I've never flown any Learjet before, but no, I don't think I need to listen to or take advice from you who have been flying this plane for 10 years. My experience with the last plane I flew (not a Bombardier product) is enough to operate this plane very well.".

Just disappointed (but not surprised) to see this playing out as predicted. I wish all of you only the best of luck! Please don't wait for one more thing to be taken before you get a union drive going. We're all in this industry together and we need to stop the degradation of our careers by greedy management.

This is a stupid post. We don't need a card drive, we need a vote on single transportation system. And wtf do you think you are telling me I still need to see more to know we need change?? F'n idiot.

 

[doh]

What we really need is to get together for happy hour.mthat would help cut through the rumors and misinformation. Who lives in the Metroplex? PM me and we'll get together.

 

[realityman]

This is a stupid post. We don't need a card drive, we need a vote on single transportation system. And wtf do you think you are telling me I still need to see more to know we need change?? F'n idiot.

Here you go folks, exhibit A of the exact mentality I was talking about in my post. Thanks for making my point for me. Good luck with KR since you don't want to listen to anyone who has experience with the guy.

By the way, the cursing and name calling doesn't speak very highly to your ability to discuss anything in an intelligent manner. Relax sport, it's an anonymous message board that doesn't amount to a hill of beans in the real world. You don't want advice or help? Then just ignore me and other posts you don't find helpful.

Still wishing you luck. Seems like you need it.