Flexjet, pilots...

[el raton]

Are we getting screwed?

 

[slowtation capt]

http://m.aviationweek.com/nbaa2014/flexjet-flight-options-realign

In the words of TWA, your guys answer to our guys, didn't any tell you. Just ask them, did you ask them. Bet Deanna isn't saying much on Yammer these days.

 

[The Architect]

Organize Now?

Are we getting screwed?

Good question.

The Employment Agreement is certainly not providing the protections of a Collective Bargaining Agreement under the RLA.

The Flexjet pilot group needs to consider whether organizing is in order. It appears that change is in the air.

The TMC pilot group reached out to Local 1108. This week the NMB accepted an application for investigation and a vote will follow. It only took a matter of weeks.

The Flexjet pilot group could be in the same situation by the years end.

 

[luckydog]

So you're saying that in the next 60+ days FJ crews could be in the same sinking ship as FO AND TMC.... things are worse than I thought!

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

^ Score 1 for management's legal team. Their goal is to make it appear the company is doomed, especially when employees unionize.

 

[AftCG182]

So you're saying that in the next 60+ days FJ crews could be in the same sinking ship as FO AND TMC.... things are worse than I thought!

Not sure how you consider TMC a sinking ship. I just went down with the sinking ship know as Avantair, so I know what a sinking ship feels like.

TMC's making money hand-over-fist... Not sure TMC qualifies as a sinking ship!

 

[Praetorian]

Flex Guys,

Did something happen recently with your 401k? A bird told me its not included in your benefits package for next year.

 

[Dirty Squirrel]

Flex Guys,

Did something happen recently with your 401k? A bird told me its not included in your benefits package for next year.

The whole benefits package isn't complete. Namely, the 401k match. They said it's under review.

 

[luckydog]

Not sure how you consider TMC a sinking ship. I just went down with the sinking ship know as Avantair, so I know what a sinking ship feels like.

TMC's making money hand-over-fist... Not sure TMC qualifies as a sinking ship!

I wasn't really referring to the companies.

 

[dime line]

The whole benefits package isn't complete. Namely, the 401k match. They said it's under review.

I'm assuming your "under review" comment, means.......the pilot group will be "Reviewing" the 401k match. Ah ok I got it.

 

[shanes123]

Yep just like there committee that reviewed the uniform change. We need to get rid of this union. This binding contract really sucks.

 

[Dirty Squirrel]

I'm assuming your "under review" comment, means.......the pilot group will be "Reviewing" the 401k match. Ah ok I got it.

Uh...no. The culture here has changed, as you guys (Flight Options) said it would. The old Flexjet is gone. The moral here has taken a dump. The focus groups and committees don't mean anything. I can tell you that there is a lot of chatter going on here at FJ....

 

[dime line]

Uh...no. The culture here has changed, as you guys (Flight Options) said it would. The old Flexjet is gone. The moral here has taken a dump. The focus groups and committees don't mean anything. I can tell you that there is a lot of chatter going on here at FJ....

Figured........I'm really sorry to hear this!!! Yup we had the committees at the RTA/FLOPS merger as well, and they didn't do much (not for not trying)

 

[jetwash]

You have to wonder that if he won't take your input on something like uniform colors, what does he have in store for more important issues like schedule, vacations, benefits etc.....

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Flex Guys,

Did something happen recently with your 401k? A bird told me its not included in your benefits package for next year.

That bird must not know what is going on.

Under our benefit descriptions for next year on ADP it shows a 100% match on the first 6%. Same as last year.

Can't wait to meet your first group of pilots that start here Monday.

Funny, after the Gulfstream announcement all of the people that wanted to come here only to be a dedicated crew changes their minds and said they would take anything. Specifically whatever got them on the FJ list the fastest.

 

[slowtation capt]

Funny, after the Gulfstream announcement all of the people that wanted to come here only to be a dedicated crew changes their minds and said they would take anything. Specifically whatever got them on the FJ list the fastest.

So, I assume by this statement that you personally were making the phone calls to the Flops crews to offer them the 45 slots. Because from the 20+ guys that I personally-face-to-face-that I have spoken to, that put there names in originally told them no thanks to a 45 right seat.

 

[dime line]

That bird must not know what is going on.

Under our benefit descriptions for next year on ADP it shows a 100% match on the first 6%. Same as last year.

Can't wait to meet your first group of pilots that start here Monday.

Funny, after the Gulfstream announcement all of the people that wanted to come here only to be a dedicated crew changes their minds and said they would take anything. Specifically whatever got them on the FJ list the fastest.

I'd be really surprised if we really miss any of them!

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

Dirty Squirrel ...The old Flexjet is gone. ... there is a lot of chatter going on here at FJ....

And that's the next thing you have to do - talk amongst yourselves. Sounds simple, but when you're not sure about the person you're paired with or the guy you're talking to, it can be a daunting moment. Still, you have to do it.

And while you're at it, talk with the TMC & NJ guys you meet. You don't need their whole life story - just ask them what they think about FJ organizing.

You can talk with any us as well. (Sure, we'll usually prattle on for an hour or two, but you already know that.) But ask anyways & we'll help in any way we can.

The old FJ sounded like a good place to work - we don't doubt that for a moment. We know past organizing efforts failed & at that time, there had to be at least one or two good reasons. But that's in the past. The old FJ is gone. The policies are different, management is different, the airplane paint is starting to look different & even the uniforms - well - you already know how I feel about the "uniforms." These changes were made with little substantive input from you & not all of them are to your benefit or liking.

It's time to start talking. It's not just one or two of you that are starting to question uncle's sincerity & integrity.

 

[doh]

TWA, how many guys actually are coming over from FO? I thought I saw something about most of them turning it down after the initial interest.

 

[dime line]

TWA, how many guys actually are coming over from FO? I thought I saw something about most of them turning it down after the initial interest.

Wait for it........wwwwaaaiiitttt........4 Pilots

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Wait for it........wwwwaaaiiitttt........4 Pilots

You better tell the other 4 that are coming that they don't have a job.

Oh wait, your information must be wrong.

You are right that the FIRST CLASS is 4, and the SECOND CLASS is also 4. It might increase to 6.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

TWA, how many guys actually are coming over from FO? I thought I saw something about most of them turning it down after the initial interest.

It was a pretty low acceptance rate until the Gulfstream announcement.

Not sure how many they had to contact, but we have a firm 8 at least as of today and possibly 10.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

So, I assume by this statement that you personally were making the phone calls to the Flops crews to offer them the 45 slots. Because from the 20+ guys that I personally-face-to-face-that I have spoken to, that put there names in originally told them no thanks to a 45 right seat.

Nope. I just talked to the person who was making the calls.

We had absolutely no issue filling the classes.

I would be interested to see how many of those 20 will be showing up to class.

Maybe they told you that because they didn't want to hear you tell them what a mistake you thought they were making since you seem like such an open minded kind of person.

Maybe they made a choice and didn't feel it was any of your business what they were doing.

And why did you feel the need to talk to 20 of the 68 people face-to-face? I am sure they didn't seek you our to explain their decisions to you.

 

[slowtation capt]

And why did you feel the need to talk to 20 of the 68 people face-to-face? I am sure they didn't seek you our to explain their decisions to you.

I didn't feel the need to to talk to them, I talked to them, because....Let's see....

I talk to the people that I work with

I talk to them because I know them

I talk to them because I have worked with them for the past 16 years.

I talk to them because we have flown together

I talk to them because I know who they are, I don't just mean their names, I know that they have a wife, a family, that they hunt, shot guns, fish, restore old cars, camp, etc.....

I talk to them because we talk about all the issues that we all face together as pilots, pilots in an aviation industry, pilots of Flight Options.

Did they ask or seek my approval of any decision they made, No.

Did I offer my opinion of THEIR decision to do something for themselves, No.

Did I offer my reasons for why going to Flex did NOT benefit ME, Yes.

 

[slowtation capt]

Maybe they told you that because they didn't want to hear you tell them what a mistake you thought they were making since you seem like such an open minded kind of person.

Interesting that you should say something like that, because I don't think I have ever said to anyone on here or anywhere else that it would be a mistake to go to Flex.

 

[slowtation capt]

Maybe they made a choice and didn't feel it was any of your business what they were doing.

Maybe, but most of the Flops pilots don't go around lying to other Flops pilots just because they don't want to tell you what they are thinking or feeling.
We aren't afraid of each other or others

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Maybe, but most of the Flops pilots don't go around lying to other Flops pilots just because they don't want to tell you what they are thinking or feeling.
We aren't afraid of each other or others

Maybe because of your strong union stance they didn't feel comfortable telling you the truth. Maybe it isn't you they are afraid of, maybe it's the union.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

TWA I'll call your last remark FUD. Next, one of my friends is half way down the list and he hasn't been called. He thinks they are giving the guys at the top of the list a second call before going thru the whole list once. I smell something.....

 

[John MClain]

Hey Cabbie, Slow and Shane. There's something you need to know about when dealing with the left handers like TWA. There's a new koolaid delivery system over here at the Bespoke side. It's being offered intravenously and he was the first to volunteer.

And to answer the original question of this thread: if you have to ask, then the answer is pretty obvious.

Yes, there lots of grumbling just beneath the surface.

 

[slowtation capt]

Maybe because of your strong union stance they didn't feel comfortable telling you the truth. Maybe it isn't you they are afraid of, maybe it's the union.

Yet again you are right on pulse with our pilot group, just like you are with your own.