FlexJet Pay/Workrules/Benefits???

[Propilot77]

I didn't, busy week. That is pretty crappy and somewhat unrealistic for someone who has to get a medical reinstated or even more minor items that would keep people out for a couple months.


Thanks for pointing it out

Exactly!!!! The FAA can take up to 90 days or more before you get the green light to head back to work. I have a pretty good idea for the change...expedite retirement for some if you know what I mean!

 

[shanes123]

That's how you treat your FAMILY...lots of WORDS... No ACTION!

 

[chief9404]

They were not going to make too many waves in the first year DAC owned Flex. It'll be 2015 and beyond before we see what they really feel we are worth.

Here is something else to expect from KR. He does not pay by date of hire. If you wish to move to another plane he will make you go to year 1 pay again. This was another insult with the RTA merger.

When KR gets his pilots to decertify the union expect some of his former "SFO" pilots to start your Global program.

 

[shanes123]

When KR gets his pilots to decertify the union expect some of his former "SFO" pilots to start your Global program.

You got that right

 

[jetwash]

From listening to Flight options CEO's weekly announcement this evening you got the feeling that when he was talking about Flex jet and their operations he was describing how he was also looking at the operations side and taking note as to how "we" can take advantage of some of their ways of operating and they can take the best from our method to work smoothly together. He even mentioned how Flex with all of the new aircraft orders would be needing to hire on more pilots and that we would take care of "our family" members by placing Flight options furloughed pilots in those openings.( does Flex HR dept. know about this ?)

For two fractional companies that are supposed to be operated separately he seems to be getting involved in Flex jets operations and hiring kind of deeply.


It makes you wonder what the real plans are for both companies.

 

[CL300Pilot]

I have a question for any of the original pre-rta options guys/gals if any still exist. When KR first started options, did you have all of the negativity, or did he change the way he treated his group after the union came on property? It is obvious he is anti-union and I for one am just curious if when you organized, that changed his attitude toward options.

Also, in regards to taking the best of Flex to Options and vice-versa, from a business stand point, that makes all of the sense in the world. He can take two really good companies and operationally make them great. Thanks folks.

 

[brokeflyer]

you just answered your own question.

if he was a great guy and treated employees well, then why did they need a union?

 

[CL300Pilot]

Not from what I have been told. The union got voted in after KR sold to RTA, then RTA booted KR and turned it to crap, then KR took it back and asked for you to give him a year which as i understand it, you didn't do. So, back to my original question, what was Options like before RTA?

you just answered your own question.

if he was a great guy and treated employees well, then why did they need a union?

 

[shanes123]

It's the same speech they gave with RTA "Gonna take the best of both companies make one great company" blah blah blah..translation " we are going to strip you low live peasants down to nothing have you in constant fear of discipline or termination use you abuse you and tell you how wonderful we all are"

Wake up..it's the same bull******************** speech word for word they have given everyone 100 times before. But there's still idiots like Rupert that chase the carrot,drink the kool aide, kissing ass thinking there gonna be saved..well losers it hasn't happened in almost 16 yrs..not gonna happen!!!

 

[GooseHZ]

I was hired in 2000. During the time that KR ran it i experienced:
Hiring PICs off the street and not upgrading current pilot's.
Pilot pushing everyday. Those same mangers are still there.
Ever changing SOPs.
No work rules.
Good old boys club...read SFO program.
Horrible MX.
Safety department was a joke.
Training department was a joke.
It's has gotten a lot better thanks to the Union and the pilots....working for KR without a CBA backed by a strong experienced Union is not an option for me. I will not be part of the Special ED club.

 

[dime line]

Not from what I have been told. The union got voted in after KR sold to RTA, then RTA booted KR and turned it to crap, then KR took it back and asked for you to give him a year which as i understand it, you didn't do. So, back to my original question, what was Options like before RTA?

Bankrupt!!

 

[dime line]

How many times has the large cabin Program Manger been fired and rehired as PM?

 

[flex*wife]

Well with just over half the company being at 4 weeks (20 days) of vacay in addition to 8 sick/pto, 2 funeral and some other nice time off benefits I see this being the hardest thing beyond pay for them to change if they want a happy pilot group.

I have a feeling they know they are safe from a union as long as pay and time off stay the same. I think they are waiting to play the "look how how we lobbied for you card" regarding vacay/pto.

If they are smart (and they are) they won't change these things. They will make up their cheddar on the back end like insurance, retirement or ratios - things flex pilots historically don't bother to look at very closely... Pay and schedules (including time off) are where the flex pilot feels loved... As a pilot group, pretty myopic and predictable. And don't think for a second they don't know it.

The question is does KR hate unions enough to treat flex well across the board (which means very little changes) and keep a union off property or is he brash enough to risk one by pissing his mark in the corners and tweak the hell out of everything???

I gotta say he is obviously smart so my money is on mostly status quo (obviously if they can maintain profit with current standards not much has to change). But like all new masters, he might feel a need to assert his dominance... That's the part everyone is waiting on...

I'm on the fence myself. This is either the best thing in the world for flex pilots or the just desserts of prior arrogance.

 

[chief9404]

You guys should be angry at Bombardier for throwing you guys to the wolves.


I think your right about the pay in the short term just until he can get a de-certification vote. Then the changes will begin. Also, you can kiss your sick days goodbye. He does not believe in sick time. Instead you will get PTO which will be sick/vacation combined. So call in sick you will lose vacation and also be required to go to a doctor to get a return to work letter.

Well with just over half the company being at 4 weeks (20 days) of vacay in addition to 8 sick/pto, 2 funeral and some other nice time off benefits I see this being the hardest thing beyond pay for them to change if they want a happy pilot group.

I have a feeling they know they are safe from a union as long as pay and time off stay the same. I think they are waiting to play the "look how how we lobbied for you card" regarding vacay/pto.

If they are smart (and they are) they won't change these things. They will make up their cheddar on the back end like insurance, retirement or ratios - things flex pilots historically don't bother to look at very closely... Pay and schedules (including time off) are where the flex pilot feels loved... As a pilot group, pretty myopic and predictable. And don't think for a second they don't know it.

The question is does KR hate unions enough to treat flex well across the board (which means very little changes) and keep a union off property or is he brash enough to risk one by pissing his mark in the corners and tweak the hell out of everything???

I gotta say he is obviously smart so my money is on mostly status quo (obviously if they can maintain profit with current standards not much has to change). But like all new masters, he might feel a need to assert his dominance... That's the part everyone is waiting on...

I'm on the fence myself. This is either the best thing in the world for flex pilots or the just desserts of prior arrogance.

 

[luckydog]

I can't wait for this sale to close so we can see if things stay to same or turn to crap as the 5 or 6 FLOPS guys here predict. I can finally relax slightly or start job hunting.

 

[jetwash]

I can't wait for this sale to close so we can see if things stay to same or turn to crap as the 5 or 6 FLOPS guys here predict. I can finally relax slightly or start job hunting.

I think he will treat you very good during at the beginning and might just keep doing so as long as you are able to keep the money coming into his pocket as he expected. If the profits start to slump then he will start to nickel and dime you to make up for the losses so that he can keep the investors happy.

At the same time he will keep trying to play the Flight Options pilots against you saying how your productivity is slipping and you have to work harder then those low paid Options pilots. That is why you should hope that the Options pilots wages come up close to yours as soon as possible.

 

[dime line]

I think he will treat you very good during at the beginning and might just keep doing so as long as you are able to keep the money coming into his pocket as he expected. If the profits start to slump then he will start to nickel and dime you to make up for the losses so that he can keep the investors happy.

At the same time he will keep trying to play the Flight Options pilots against you saying how your productivity is slipping and you have to work harder then those low paid Options pilots. That is why you should hope that the Options pilots wages come up close to yours as soon as possible.

I think when the sale is complete, Flex will see no changes to anything, See Ricci needs you guys happy as clams to vote no to the union.(When the single carrier thing happens). Funny thing the RTA boys have seen this novel before, sounds exactly like RTA and FLOPS merger)
Then after the vote, only then, will the emails start to make their rounds. I'm sure before FLOPS voted in the union, somebody still has a copy of the email that made Tier 3 bases obsolete. See if you lived in Tier 3 you either 1. moved to a Tier 2 or Tier 1, or 2. you found a new job. That was over one email. One of our "Village Idiots" had to move, (remember moving entails, selling your house, taking kids out of school and buying a new house) got divorced, and still didn't think we needed a union, yet he is all tits up for the in house union, with a wopping 300 pilots to fund this in house union.

Just for the record i'm a FLOPS pilot that wants FLex pilots to keep their pay even after the single carrier thing happens and the union stays in place, I want you guys pay protected, cause in 1 more year your pay will be our starting point.

 

[luckydog]

I'm not so sure about the single carrier status and honestly don't want it.

I would like to see the FLOPS crews brought up to same compensation as Flexjet. It will be great seeing FR8DOG thanking every 'Flex puke' he sees for his raise.

 

[dime line]

I'm not so sure about the single carrier status and honestly don't want it.

I would like to see the FLOPS crews brought up to same compensation as Flexjet. It will be great seeing FR8DOG thanking every 'Flex puke' he sees for his raise.

I don't think your gonna have a choice
Between the two companys, everybody will make out better in the long run if were one large company. Strength in numbers

 

[luckydog]

I think a single carrier finding will be bad for everyone. Until the huge disparity in benefits between FLOPS and Flexjet is closed I don't see how we can create an SLI plan that keeps everyone's pay high.

There are lots of IBT haters at Flexjet and having the union forced on the pilot group won't end well for FLOPS or Flexjet.

 

[hammer2]

I think when the sale is complete, Flex will see no changes to anything, See Ricci needs you guys happy as clams to vote no to the union.(When the single carrier thing happens). Funny thing the RTA boys have seen this novel before, sounds exactly like RTA and FLOPS merger)
Then after the vote, only then, will the emails start to make their rounds. I'm sure before FLOPS voted in the union, somebody still has a copy of the email that made Tier 3 bases obsolete. See if you lived in Tier 3 you either 1. moved to a Tier 2 or Tier 1, or 2. you found a new job. That was over one email. One of our "Village Idiots" had to move, (remember moving entails, selling your house, taking kids out of school and buying a new house) got divorced, and still didn't think we needed a union, yet he is all tits up for the in house union, with a wopping 300 pilots to fund this in house union.

Just for the record i'm a FLOPS pilot that wants FLex pilots to keep their pay even after the single carrier thing happens and the union stays in place, I want you guys pay protected, cause in 1 more year your pay will be our starting point.

Why do you guys at flops always aim so low? Use Netjet's pay and benefits not ours.

 

[GooseHZ]

Lucky

That's where you and other Flex pilots should do your due diligence, with an open mind, and talk to the long term flops pilots before you put your future in the hand's of KR. Talk to the ibt haters, the ibt leadership, the fence sitters, everyone. ...but ask the hard question's and use your best judgment.

But please call and talk.....don't take what your read hear as gospel....PM me I will try and answer any question you have.

 

[jetwash]

There are lots of IBT haters at Flexjet and having the union forced on the pilot group won't end well for FLOPS or Flexjet.

That is the plan.

KR hopes the IBT will push for it and then the Flex pilots will vote out the union.

Then with no union and no work rules you can guess what will happen to the Flex high wages and the Flops work rules. Both pilot groups will be back to where we were in 2000 in terms of pay and work rules.

 

[luckydog]

Due diligence aside, it will be a tough sell if a union contract is imposed on 350+ pilots that includes drastic pay cuts and QOL losses. IF that happens, integration won't be much of a problem because the pilots will either: 1. move on in droves, 2. burn the place down, or 3. vote out the union and take their chances (with options 1 or 2 still available).

If the integration happens after the FLOPS crews have caught up, that's another story.

 

[Rupert.]

Then with no union and no work rules you can guess what will happen to the Flex high wages and the Flops work rules. Both pilot groups will be back to where we were in 2000 in terms of pay and work rules.

This is nuts, Kenn isnt stupid. If the union were voted out, it would certainly be voted in later if he did lower the Flex payscales. Why would he work that hard to get rid of the union to only turn around and commit suicide by shafting the Flex guys.

 

[luckydog]

This is nuts, Kenn isnt stupid. If the union were voted out, it would certainly be voted in later if he did lower the Flex payscales. Why would he work that hard to get rid of the union to only turn around and commit suicide by shafting the Flex guys.

I think you're right on.

 

[jetwash]

This is nuts, Kenn isnt stupid. If the union were voted out, it would certainly be voted in later if he did lower the Flex payscales. Why would he work that hard to get rid of the union to only turn around and commit suicide by shafting the Flex guys.

Gets the union off property and get the wages low. Then when they do reorganize and start negotiating it takes another 4years.
So he gets everyone at low wages and no rules for almost 5 years.

How much will he save over 5 years if Flex guys were paid as much as FO pilots before they voted in another union?

 

[hogbody]

This is nuts, Kenn isnt stupid. If the union were voted out, it would certainly be voted in later if he did lower the Flex payscales. Why would he work that hard to get rid of the union to only turn around and commit suicide by shafting the Flex guys.

Because he knows where to draw the line. As in the past, he'll try to keep the union supporters at just less than 50% of the pilot group. If suport for unionization grows, he'll toss in a few bennies. He'll hold out a carrot in the form of promises for the future, which will never be fulfilled, but his faithful followers will believe him again, and again and again ....

 

[SDCFI]

Flex pilots, esp the senior ones, have always been wary about voting in a union. Until now. When the buyout was announced those senior folks suddenly lost the comfort of the status quo re pay and more importantly benefits. You could practically hear their collective hearts stop thinking about losing the pension and a potential loss of the 401k match and downgrades to vacation, sick days, and disability. There is literally no appetite for reductions in pay/QOL and any attempt, whether its in 3 months or 2 years will be met with swift resistance. Flex management knows this and I'm sure KR knows this. With the current sales and flying volume Flexjet is raking in the profits, and trying to pinch pennies by bringing down the costs of the pilot group would be an epic choking of the golden goose.

 

[chainring]

This is nuts, Kenn isnt stupid. If the union were voted out, it would certainly be voted in later if he did lower the Flex payscales. Why would he work that hard to get rid of the union to only turn around and commit suicide by shafting the Flex guys.

Go ahead Flex guys and gals. Keep holding on to that dream of yours that Kenn won't mess with you. Go ahead and vote against the 1108 when the merge happens. Remember this when Riccis management team gets its hands on Flex ops.
For me the contract isn't about money as much as it is about work rules and REPRESENTATION . And don't expect a tissue from us when you guys start crying about what Ricci is doing. Will be a bunch of Options pilots saying sorry dude, tried to warn you.