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FlexJet / Flight Options / SkyJet
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doh
Jump seat shrink
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Not sure why, his comments don't seem to have value...
Shane you are an absolute idiot.....I'm ashamed to know you used to work at Options. Sorry flex guys this childish keyboard tough guy dose not represent anyone at Options. He's just a disgruntled employee who was fired for being the idiot he has proven himself to be over and over on here....
Back on point. He did not say this. He told his minions, special Ed the bombardier training center raider, and inhouse joke of a union to say he told them this. Flex pilots do not be distracted from somebody still pining to be employed by the worst fractional ever. Flops pilots start focusing on sending the message to tricky ricci we WILL be payed a parity wage for the same job our colleagues at netjets perform in the next contract. Parity or bust. STMFD!
993_Pilot
MIGS
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- Jul 12, 2008
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True, but nobody on FI speaks for any pilot group. We are all individuals, with our own opinions, and everyone should keep that in mind when any individual makes a comment that you don't like or agree with. Nobody should judge a pilot group by any individual who makes a post. Take some time and speak to multiple pilots on the road when you see them. Even then, you need to realize that most pilots are probably a going to be bit guarded about what they say if they don't know you.
I post about Ricci buying a house in Dallas and shutting down CGF and I am attacked by elraton. When I counter attack I am a idiot. I'm cool with that. Cause Ricci is shutting down CGF and it's gonna be a move or lose for everyone in that office maybe there is justice after all. The IBT better go on a full blown offense attack cause Riccis pushing for a decertification vote.. Then the Flex guys are gonna experience a world they never imagined existed. But that's from your favorite idiot that has no credible info!!
CL300Pilot
Well-known member
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- Oct 4, 2005
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Shanes123, I quit posting on here a little while ago mostly because I just don't give a rats a$$. That being said, let me point a a few things.
First, maybe if you did not come across so bitter and quite frankly, an a$$, no one would attack you.
Second, if you no longer work for FLOPS, then why care anyway? You are no longer there, so why not let it go and move on?
Third, why do you think us here at Flex are so ignorant? Do you think that we have all had some golden egg cushy job and have never had to work for a crappy company? I personally don't believe that we are going to go down the crapper just because Ken's company owns us, but that is just my choice of being optimistic. If it goes the way you keep saying, then so be it. I have a choice. Deal with it or leave, but I don't have to be on here bitching and moaning about it.
My fourth and last point is this. You may feel the need to jump on here and attack me because I spoke my mind about you and your post and that is you prerogative, however, I will not rebut or get into a pissing contest with you because again, I just don't give a flying F&*k. I do hope you are at some point in your life able to find a happy place because you really need to.
Now back to my popcorn and laughter.
First, maybe if you did not come across so bitter and quite frankly, an a$$, no one would attack you.
Second, if you no longer work for FLOPS, then why care anyway? You are no longer there, so why not let it go and move on?
Third, why do you think us here at Flex are so ignorant? Do you think that we have all had some golden egg cushy job and have never had to work for a crappy company? I personally don't believe that we are going to go down the crapper just because Ken's company owns us, but that is just my choice of being optimistic. If it goes the way you keep saying, then so be it. I have a choice. Deal with it or leave, but I don't have to be on here bitching and moaning about it.
My fourth and last point is this. You may feel the need to jump on here and attack me because I spoke my mind about you and your post and that is you prerogative, however, I will not rebut or get into a pissing contest with you because again, I just don't give a flying F&*k. I do hope you are at some point in your life able to find a happy place because you really need to.
Now back to my popcorn and laughter.
johnnyride24
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- Jan 23, 2006
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- 81
If you staple the pilots, how will that affect the 800+ customers who paid a sizable amount of money for the service flexjet promised to provide? Are you going to cram them all in a beech jet or a phenom...please explain your logic?
You forget, we're not an airline.
ProFracPilot
What's it doing now?
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- 701
Maybe. But maybe not.
Here's the problem with McCaskill Bond: Exactly what is the definition of an "Air Carrier" as it applies to this law?
I think it is safe to assume that when this law was crafted, lawmakers (and the lobbyists representing the interests of Part 121 "air carriers") gave absolutely NO consideration that this law could or may apply to Part 135 on demand "air carriers". This law was crafted in an attempt to smooth out future airline mergers, thereby reducing the possibility of interrupting airline service (and in turn the inconveniencing of millions of their constituents). Just follow the votes and the money.
So for now anyone can claim to know exactly how this law will apply to best serve their own interests. However, I think the applicability of the law will eventually be challenged in court. And labor organizations representing Part 135 Air Carriers might be surprised at the outcome.
doh
Jump seat shrink
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Are you one of the antiunion crowd? Spreading false information in the hopes of a decert vote? Don't be a tool. Here's how it really works. Single carrier petition, NMB ruling in the affirmative, representation vote elects the 1108 as bargaining agent, ALL FLEXJET PILOTS REPRESENTED BY THE 1108 AND PROTECTED BY DFR. Now the union's internal merger process kicks in and we merge lists accordingly. The vote for representation precedes the merger of the lists. I'm glad I could help you pull your head out of your ass before you suffocated.
TWA 2 ASA FO
Well-known member
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DOH,
Who is going to petition the NMB for a single carrier ruling? The IBT knows they don't have enough votes to stay in power. They are holding on and collecting income, sorry dues as long as they can.
If single carrier is voted on there is zero chance the IBT will win the vote to determine representation. After the decertification the FX pilots will continue with our employment agreements while you get to negotiate a direct agreement with FO.
They only way your pay and work rules will align with ours would be with the IBT being voted out.
Best of luck to all of us.
Who is going to petition the NMB for a single carrier ruling? The IBT knows they don't have enough votes to stay in power. They are holding on and collecting income, sorry dues as long as they can.
If single carrier is voted on there is zero chance the IBT will win the vote to determine representation. After the decertification the FX pilots will continue with our employment agreements while you get to negotiate a direct agreement with FO.
They only way your pay and work rules will align with ours would be with the IBT being voted out.
Best of luck to all of us.
jetwash
Well-known member
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- 879
Or Maybe Flex pay might be aligned with ours.
After all, the captains flying the new Globals will start at $ 145k and the rest of will go down from there. Or maybe he will pay the Lear pilots more then the Global pilots because he is a nice guy you can trust.
doh
Jump seat shrink
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I'm just debunking the staple thing. One possible scenario out of several. And no, I don't have a clue which way this will play out when the actual vote happens.
Unless IBT launches informational meetings they will not hold on. And if they don't and get decertified it will be there own fault. They need to communicate now more than ever. To many idiots at flops believe in there in house to further there own personal positions. Welcome back SFO program !!!
ProFracPilot
What's it doing now?
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Everything I've heard from people in the know jives with what doh said. IF there's a petition for single carrier, and then IF it is approved the two combined groups would vote for 3 options. A) Continue rep by the IBT under a brand new negotiated contract, status quo while said contract is formed. B) New in-house union, new contract, again status quo until it's in place. C) No union for all, presumably Flexjet pilot agreements remain in force, FO who knows. Nowhere have I heard a staple of either group being a possibility and that would be the quickest way to burn this place down altogether.
I know the Flex pilots won't ask for single carrier so that leaves 1108 or more than 50% of the FO pilots. The union prob won't ask because to stay in power they'd need more than 50% of the combined group's vote and that's not a very good bet. So that pretty much leaves the FO pilots who want to get rid of the IBT, could they get more than 50%?
PFP is headed the right direction. After reading a few summaries and the some of the actual RLA, I'm think my initial assessment of FJ not being an air carrier is incorrect.
As pilots we all focus on Flex not having a 135 certificate, I think that is a very narrow definition. I'm sure it will take a table surrounded by lawyers billing thousands of $/hour to NOT settle the issue and let it wind up in front of a court and later appeals courts. There is more riding on this than just a couple of hundred pilots flying little planes.
I'm sure there are contradicting definitions in the vast verbiage of government regulations but consider this regarding airport operations/safety:
http://www.faa.gov/airports/airport_safety/part139_cert/?p1=definitions
As pilots we all focus on Flex not having a 135 certificate, I think that is a very narrow definition. I'm sure it will take a table surrounded by lawyers billing thousands of $/hour to NOT settle the issue and let it wind up in front of a court and later appeals courts. There is more riding on this than just a couple of hundred pilots flying little planes.
I'm sure there are contradicting definitions in the vast verbiage of government regulations but consider this regarding airport operations/safety:
http://www.faa.gov/airports/airport_safety/part139_cert/?p1=definitions
Rubber Ducky
Well-known member
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- Mar 2, 2005
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- 143
993_Pilot
MIGS
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Seek more advice, what you have heard is wrong... if A) happens, we continue with the same contract, until it is amended. (however, that is coming up very quickly) B) any New "In-House" Union won't even get on the ballot, unless they are able to get 50%+1, before the representation vote. I also seriously doubt that anyone in the IBT leadership wants to staple the Flex pilots to the bottom, it wouldn't be in their long term interest.
To answer the last question, I doubt they have anywhere near 50%, but they do have a few loud mouths who pretend to have the support of the majority. If it were actually true, the IBT would already be out.
Fresh Air
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As things now stand, I do not envision a single carrier petition happening anytime soon. As in years, after the next FO contract is signed.
Kenn stated in his message that he wanted the consolidation of pilot groups to happen "as soon as possible". At this time, our union has absolutely no incentive to give him what he wants.
If Kenn would care to send his minions to the negotiating table and hash out a LOA raising FO pay scales and benefits to mirror Flex, then things would be different.
Until then, he can just cool his heels.
Kenn stated in his message that he wanted the consolidation of pilot groups to happen "as soon as possible". At this time, our union has absolutely no incentive to give him what he wants.
If Kenn would care to send his minions to the negotiating table and hash out a LOA raising FO pay scales and benefits to mirror Flex, then things would be different.
Until then, he can just cool his heels.
About the only correct statement here, well done
TWA 2 ASA FO
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So far all of the FO crews I have talked to on the road have been very eager to share their views unions and KR. Here is what I have found from the 30 or so pilots I have had the time to really chat with:
Only 3 of the 30 were pro-IBT
Only 10 or so were pro-UPFO
17 were very anti-IBT and feel they are a roadblock to the future of FO
I asked each pilot why they felt the way they did. The IBT folks all said because they needed "protection". If we don't join the IBT we are all gonna be screwed. None of the had specifics, but basically said you'll see.
The UPFO group was basically anti IBT and before FJ came along thought that was their only other option. All the care about is getting away from the IBT and improving their quality if life.
The anti IBT folks were mostly that way before the FJ thing came along. It has only strengthened their views. They like KR and believe he will take care of them if the IBT goes away. They feel the pilots that stare their views are not organized enough to oust the IBT as it stands. They are very frustrated with the IBT and the "thugs" (their words not mine) that run it.
I hope in 18 months we can all look backin amazement at how different our pay and benefits were. The IBT folks on here will just tell you that KR will bring FJ down to FO. Leadership by intimidation and fear is not leadership.
Good luck to us all.
Only 3 of the 30 were pro-IBT
Only 10 or so were pro-UPFO
17 were very anti-IBT and feel they are a roadblock to the future of FO
I asked each pilot why they felt the way they did. The IBT folks all said because they needed "protection". If we don't join the IBT we are all gonna be screwed. None of the had specifics, but basically said you'll see.
The UPFO group was basically anti IBT and before FJ came along thought that was their only other option. All the care about is getting away from the IBT and improving their quality if life.
The anti IBT folks were mostly that way before the FJ thing came along. It has only strengthened their views. They like KR and believe he will take care of them if the IBT goes away. They feel the pilots that stare their views are not organized enough to oust the IBT as it stands. They are very frustrated with the IBT and the "thugs" (their words not mine) that run it.
I hope in 18 months we can all look backin amazement at how different our pay and benefits were. The IBT folks on here will just tell you that KR will bring FJ down to FO. Leadership by intimidation and fear is not leadership.
Good luck to us all.
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