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FlexJet / Flight Options / SkyJet
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johnsonrod
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Interesting. Does this suggest fewer fleet types per company? What about the rumor of adding Globals?
CL300Pilot
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It will be done fairly!
doh
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You can read the process here: http://www.mondaq.com/unitedstates/...ity+Integration+And+The+MccaskillBond+Statute
hammer2
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What do you consider fair?
Last edited:
johnsonrod
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CL300Pilot
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And that would mean what exactly? If NJA would have gotten us as part of the Global deal, NJA's version of fair for us for for all of our pilots to be gone since they have 400+ on the street.
Also, and here is a biggie that I see, you guys are going to want us to vote in the union to avoid decertification. So, why would we do that and drop down to you pay? I realize that can happen anyway, but right now, our pay stands at least for a year. Honest question here. Not trying to start a verbal argument.
Has anyone at flex figured out KR is a liar? What happened to keeping them separate ? Running two separate companies nothing will change at Flex. We'll guess what flex it was all a lie just as the flops guys called it. You have no work rules and you are at the mercy of the king..and everything has changed. You are now flops pilots. Bend over the beatings have begun..why would you vote for the union? Why wouldn't you? It's the only stability you will ever get from this place..kiss your quality of life goodbye ..welcome
Praetorian
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Has someone told you your pay will drop if you vote in the union?
jetwash
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Back to the future.
That was tried and looked good on paper but in reality it was hard to keep going.
This way you kept up your own aircraft and carried any write ups without any other pilots finding out. When other pilots flew the aircraft they wrote up everything that should have been written up long before.
If the aircraft went down for inspection you were sent to another aircraft, plus if you were on vacation someone else flew the aircraft.
So it was not really workable in real life but sounded good when the salesmen told the customers that.
Nothing to be really concerned about.
Our contract comes up for negotiation soon. Everyone only talks of pay but there is so much more to our contract. Number one representation. And believe me with our middle managers you want representation. Katai and crew have done a tremendous job of representing tons of pilots that are constantly being called into CGF for bulls$it reasons. Also one of my biggest is the 20 hour duty day. Right now we get assigned a duty on time and that is it. They can't come back after 10 hrs off and change everything. Like they did in the old days before our contract. Another biggie is if we don't get home on our last day due to airline problems we don't start our next tour until the same time we get home on the extra day or if it's after noon then were off day one next tour and also get the overtime pay.
We will have a chance to negotiate this time under much better times in aviation and also at a time tHat Kenn wants to grow the company so we should be able to get something that benefits both sides. I for one am happy to see the 2 pilot groups come together as the Flex guys that I meet on the road seem to be a great group and I think the two pilot groups will be a good fit.
I've said it before and I will say it again I can't imagine going back and working for this middle manangment team ( BR, TM, JK, etc...) we have here without a contract. Just remember there's a lot more to a contract then salary. Don't sell your soul for a few bucks that will likely be taken away in time as we Options guys have lived it for our whole careers here. And I want no part of this in house Union joke. You do not want any part of Ed May or Chuck Brace being your voice to the company.
SkyJet is the new thing for Sentient.
XOJET and Wheels up are no threats or to us, per ..
Union will have to be voted for or against because of a merger, but not a merger.
Also everything will happen very fast so people will not be stressed but it might take 3 quarters for things to happen.
Now is the fun part, Please can you date me on St pats day?
Let's talk to each others is the message, at flops we do not pay for our meals so we can invite you guys or gals.
Welcome to new house.
I hope we get along and do not burn this house.
Best to all.
XOJET and Wheels up are no threats or to us, per ..
Union will have to be voted for or against because of a merger, but not a merger.
Also everything will happen very fast so people will not be stressed but it might take 3 quarters for things to happen.
Now is the fun part, Please can you date me on St pats day?
Let's talk to each others is the message, at flops we do not pay for our meals so we can invite you guys or gals.
Welcome to new house.
I hope we get along and do not burn this house.
Best to all.
CL300Pilot
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Your current contract states what your pay and benefits are correct? If so, that answers your question. We vote in the IBT, i.e. your contract, we get what you currently have. Since it appears we are now one company, if Flex pilots chose to vote in a union, we are essentially voting in what have. Am I wrong here?
jetwash
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jetwash
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I thought you had to sign some papers agreeing to the same wages that you now have for 1 year? After that then what?
After seeing what Ricci is wanting to pay Global captains who are constantly going to be on call what do you think he will pay you if there is no union on the property? Will he actually pay a CL300 pilot more then one of his chosen Global pilots?
I have heard that a lot of Flex pilots make more then the 145k that he is offering.
A good indicator of what KR thinks a pilot is worth is just that.
The top Global pilots are 145k and then you go down from there.
From what I heard years ago, the reason for the "single tail number" pilot policy was because of the number of types of aircraft, and the fact that they were all used, they all had different configurations, hence the need for a single tail for each pilot. But you guys would know better -- that is just what I had been told by many parties.
993_Pilot
MIGS
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A NO vote is voting to be "At Will", with all pay and work rules at managements discretion... they could be taken away with an email. A YES vote means that the Flops pilots have to live with the current contract until it gets renegotiated, but most of the Flops guys that I have spoken with would support fences after the merger with both aircraft and pay protections for the Flex pilots. That can easily be done with a simple "Letter of Agreement". Believe me when I say that we all want to be brought up to your level (or higher), not drag you down to ours, but we don't want to give up the work rules and other protections of having a CBA either.
KR likes the idea of tail number specific crews, but I suspect that will also make it easier for DAC to move the aircraft and crews to the Flops certificate as they get trained.
Hang on tight, 2014 is gonna be an interesting and wild ride !!!
By design, says Ricci, the ranks of senior flight officers will be reserved for the top-notch people. No more than 30% of the company's pilots will be admitted to the program. And once you're promoted, there's an understanding that your job is secure -- as long as you maintain safety, health, and personal-conduct standards.
Since the new program took effect in 1986, 4 of Corporate Wings' 32 pilots have applied to be senior flight officers. So far, all have been accepted. They don't make $150,000 like the top jet pilots at the majors. But they do make significantly more than the company's other pilots -- and more than those at most other charter companies. Upon promotion, they get a salary hike from $42,000 to $48,000. They also get more health and life insurance, more paid vacation time, and deferred compensation of up to $100,000, payable at retirement, at age 62. There are also new policies designed to mitigate the on-demand schedules: once pilots have flown 15 days in a given month, they get additional pay (up to $200 per day); and after 20 days of flying, they get the option of declining an assignment -- or taking as much as $400 per diem. Yet payroll and benefits as a percentage of total costs have gone from 14% in 1986 to only 18% today.
It's much too soon to know how all this will play out over time, but Ricci and his colleagues are thrilled about the effects so far. "We used to lose six or seven pilots a year," says Ricci, "but we've lost only two in the past year." What's more, the caliber of applicants for pilot positions has significantly improved. "Instead of getting kids without experience," says Vince Criswell, the company's chief pilot, "we're getting the cr?me de la cr?me -- guys who have been flying jets for 20 or 25 years.'
Now that turnover is under control, customers are benefiting too. These days, says Ricci, it's usually possible to give clients at least one of the two or three pilots they know. "We can offer some consistency." This consistency will be important as Corporate Wings, currently an $8.8-million business operating in four cities besides Cleveland, expands into new places. The system is working so well that Ricci is in the process of extending some of the same benefits to other hard-to-retain employees -- his maintenance people.
Of course, there are some questions that the company hasn't yet addressed. What happens when it hits its quota for senior flight officers? And what if business slows down? Does it keep the highest-paid pilots -- or let some of them go? As time goes on, Ricci offers, it will inevitably become harder for good pilots to get promoted. And there's no getting around the fact, he agrees, that a downturn would require layoffs. "The extent of the problem," Ricci says, "would determine how far we had to go with cuts.'
But for now, the program is doing just what Ricci wants it to. "We're getting extremely capable pilots," he says, "and we think we can keep them.'
THE TENURE TRACK
How to develop a two-tiered personnel system
Corporate Wings Inc.'s system can be followed by almost any company searching for -- and wanting to hold onto -- employees with special skills.
* Pinpoint the need. If customers hadn't cared who flew their airplanes, president Ken Ricci wouldn't have had a problem. But they did care. The challenge was to attract seasoned pilots who could make a commitment and provide a sense of stability. Hence the need for an upper tier of compensation.
* Know the market. Whatever changes in pay and benefits you are considering, make them attractive. "It's stupid if you're only matching your competition," Ricci says. "Ideally, you want to appeal to people on the outside as well as to the people who are already working for you."
* Don't make the lower tier too attractive. Remember, says Ricci, that you can't possibly afford to pay all your employees more than they could make elsewhere. If you need salaries to average out at $30,000, you have to pay someone $15,000 for every person you pay $45,000. What you can offer at the lower end is experience.
* Find a way to control quality. At Corporate Wings, flight officers are closely monitored by the Federal Aviation Agency. Pilots who receive safety warnings or who have health problems will be relieved of their duties. If your industry has no regulatory controls, figure out a method for ongoing evaluations. Otherwise, says Ricci, you may be stuck, like many universities, with people you don't want. n
LAST UPDATED: OCT 1, 1988
Since the new program took effect in 1986, 4 of Corporate Wings' 32 pilots have applied to be senior flight officers. So far, all have been accepted. They don't make $150,000 like the top jet pilots at the majors. But they do make significantly more than the company's other pilots -- and more than those at most other charter companies. Upon promotion, they get a salary hike from $42,000 to $48,000. They also get more health and life insurance, more paid vacation time, and deferred compensation of up to $100,000, payable at retirement, at age 62. There are also new policies designed to mitigate the on-demand schedules: once pilots have flown 15 days in a given month, they get additional pay (up to $200 per day); and after 20 days of flying, they get the option of declining an assignment -- or taking as much as $400 per diem. Yet payroll and benefits as a percentage of total costs have gone from 14% in 1986 to only 18% today.
It's much too soon to know how all this will play out over time, but Ricci and his colleagues are thrilled about the effects so far. "We used to lose six or seven pilots a year," says Ricci, "but we've lost only two in the past year." What's more, the caliber of applicants for pilot positions has significantly improved. "Instead of getting kids without experience," says Vince Criswell, the company's chief pilot, "we're getting the cr?me de la cr?me -- guys who have been flying jets for 20 or 25 years.'
Now that turnover is under control, customers are benefiting too. These days, says Ricci, it's usually possible to give clients at least one of the two or three pilots they know. "We can offer some consistency." This consistency will be important as Corporate Wings, currently an $8.8-million business operating in four cities besides Cleveland, expands into new places. The system is working so well that Ricci is in the process of extending some of the same benefits to other hard-to-retain employees -- his maintenance people.
Of course, there are some questions that the company hasn't yet addressed. What happens when it hits its quota for senior flight officers? And what if business slows down? Does it keep the highest-paid pilots -- or let some of them go? As time goes on, Ricci offers, it will inevitably become harder for good pilots to get promoted. And there's no getting around the fact, he agrees, that a downturn would require layoffs. "The extent of the problem," Ricci says, "would determine how far we had to go with cuts.'
But for now, the program is doing just what Ricci wants it to. "We're getting extremely capable pilots," he says, "and we think we can keep them.'
THE TENURE TRACK
How to develop a two-tiered personnel system
Corporate Wings Inc.'s system can be followed by almost any company searching for -- and wanting to hold onto -- employees with special skills.
* Pinpoint the need. If customers hadn't cared who flew their airplanes, president Ken Ricci wouldn't have had a problem. But they did care. The challenge was to attract seasoned pilots who could make a commitment and provide a sense of stability. Hence the need for an upper tier of compensation.
* Know the market. Whatever changes in pay and benefits you are considering, make them attractive. "It's stupid if you're only matching your competition," Ricci says. "Ideally, you want to appeal to people on the outside as well as to the people who are already working for you."
* Don't make the lower tier too attractive. Remember, says Ricci, that you can't possibly afford to pay all your employees more than they could make elsewhere. If you need salaries to average out at $30,000, you have to pay someone $15,000 for every person you pay $45,000. What you can offer at the lower end is experience.
* Find a way to control quality. At Corporate Wings, flight officers are closely monitored by the Federal Aviation Agency. Pilots who receive safety warnings or who have health problems will be relieved of their duties. If your industry has no regulatory controls, figure out a method for ongoing evaluations. Otherwise, says Ricci, you may be stuck, like many universities, with people you don't want. n
LAST UPDATED: OCT 1, 1988
Now ask yourself this? Did you spend a lifetime building a career to be manipulated by a control freak for substandard wages? We all know he is full of ******************** in his plagiarized book, and this should seal the deal on how he views pilots net worth and value. If the money is not there for a good retirement package and livable wages lets shut the whole mother ********************er down and all go find new work!
johnsonrod
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